Bowl gouge grind

[John Torchick]

Frustrated, to say the least. Started with a piece of cherry to make a lidded box which became a design modification ending up as a practice piece. I have the Wolverine system and Vari-Grind and Rikon grinder. I tried to grind a Benjamin's Best bowl gouge to an Irish grind; off a video. Worked decent but when I got the the middle, I got brown rings in the wood and couldn't remove the little nub in the center. Played around with different angles and even tried to go back to the original grind. Not good. I have always valued the opinions/expertise/experience of the members. Your help is most appreciated. Have a project to take to the chapter meeting next week but want to go beyond a pen and pencil set or a beehive which I have done in the past...if possible.

 

[Edward Olson]

following...

 

[hockenbery]

To hollow end grain boxes
I would drill a depth hole 1/4-1/2 in diameter
The use a spindle with fingernail grind cut from center to side wall use about a 1/3 of sharpened side from the tip to cut to the side wall.
The clean the bottom and sidewalk with a round nose scraper sharpened a little bit down the left side.

A termite tool, hooktool, hunter will do a nice job too

 

[robo hippy]

For the inside of the bowl, you need to grind off at least half of the heel of the bevel. If you leave it straight that sharp corner/edge will leave bruises in the wood which are extremely difficult to remove. I would swear that I could sand through to the outside of the bowl and those bruises would not go away.

The dead center of the bowl is difficult. Part of that is the fpm (feet/minute) speed of the wood. It is moving so much more slowly that you can debate about 'is the center actually moving at all?' One common practice is to take a standard bowl scraper or a NRS (negative rake scraper) and very gently sweep back and forth across the bottom. I do not take that cut up the sides of the bowl, preferring a shear scrape for the sides of the bowl. The dead center can be done with a gouge, but you have to go very slow on your feed rate or you will tear out the center. 80 grit on a firm disc will also do a good job of leveling out that bump/nib in the center. I have videos up on shear scraping and turning bowls on You Tube.

robo hippy

 

[john lucas]

If your turning a box you probably have.steep sides and won't be able to rub the bevel. That's probably where your problem is. A round nose scraper will.probably be your best bet. If you dont have one you can use a spindle gouge as a.scraper. keep the handle higher than the cutting tip and it will.funtion just like a scraper.

 

[John Torchick]

Sides weren't steep but more of an oval shape. Having a time getting past that shape. I have a 5/8" round nose scraper and will try it. John, have a 3/8" spindle gouge and will practice with it as you say.
Edit: Found this earlier today. If you have time, critique it as I think it has some merit.
Thanks two bunches!
https://www.woodmagazine.com/video/bowl-gouge-sharpening

 

[Davis Stevenson]

I am assuming end grain?

I will echo the comments on a spindle gouge for hollowing. I never had good results with end grain bowls until I made a couple lidded boxes with a spindle gouge. Get your tool rest as close as you can, too. My 3/8" Benjamin's Best spindle is extra flimsy and will chatter with minimal overhang, especially on the kiln dried maple I was using on those boxes.

A note on the BB gouges-- mine were only hardened on the tip, so with all that grinding, make sure you're still working with good metal. I've heard there's a decent amount of variation in the quality of their tools. Nothing worse than a tool that won't hold an edge trying to cut end grain.

 

[Mike Johnson]

It is easier to accept the reality that wood lathe tools need to be sharpened often to perform the task required by the different materials presented to the tool. If you have a grinder close by it only takes a few seconds to grind a fresh bur on the tool and get back to cutting wood cleanly.

 

[Dean Center]

Edit: Found this earlier today. If you have time, critique it as I think it has some merit.
https://www.woodmagazine.com/video/bowl-gouge-sharpening

I noted this video is dated 2008, prior to widespread adoption of jigs. If you're going to platform sharpen, I would strongly suggest one-on-one instruction, as it's a skill with a steep learning curve.

My recollection is that years ago, I couldn't get a satisfactory swept back grind on Benjamin Best bowl gouges either, so maybe they have the wrong flute shape.

 

[John Torchick]

Not end grain, not at a point to even try that. I did notice chatter while attempting the turning. Got some good turners in the chapter. Will approach one of them. I think I was trying to do something that the tool wasn't designed for. Like pounding a nail with a paint brush. Guess I'll look to get another bowl gouge for Father's Day. Recommendations are welcome. All advance contributions are gratefully accepted. Got some time today. Will use the piece for practice and experiment with the BB tool and some others. Have one week to either make something decent or a pen and pencil set. Lots of experience with them. So easy a caveman or newbie turner can do it!
Grinder is two steps from the lathe so sharpening any tool isn't a biggy.
BTW, Hi, Dean!

 

[robo hippy]

John, I did watch that video on sharpening, and I would not suggest it to anyone. Part of it is he ground away about a month's worth of metal (for me anyway) to get the grind he wanted. With as coarse as those wheels are you will be replacing your tools at a quick rate. For tools, I haven't used anything but the Thompson V10 tools and the D Way M42 HSS tools for years. You pay a bit more, but they are worth it.

robo hippy

 

[hockenbery]

Guess I'll look to get another bowl gouge for Father's Day. Recommendations are welcome.

Not sure you need a new gouge. I like the Jamison gouge made by Thompson a lot.

You might be interested in looking at a video of a demo on seed jars.
It is like two 7” bowls glued together. Also like a box.
But you can see how I hollow with a bevel riding push cut.
It is a great project for a small lathe and great practice with the bowl gouge.
One benefit is while you are perfecting your hollowing of the bowls you hide the openings inside.

http://www.aawforum.org/community/index.php?threads/turning-a-seed-jar-split-hollow-form.13584/

 

[Richard Coers]

I'm a huge fan of the Hannes grind. He developed that to run down the near vertical sides of his hats. His grinding fixture has made it easy for everyone. It's a wonderfully controllable gouge with that grind, continually surprises me how far around the point of the gouge you can go with the cut.

 

[Dave DeJong]

I'm a huge fan of the Hannes grind. He developed that to run down the near vertical sides of his hats. His grinding fixture has made it easy for everyone. It's a wonderfully controllable gouge with that grind, continually surprises me how far around the point of the gouge you can go with the cut.

I try to read everything I can about tool grinding but the Hannes grind is a new one to me. Just what is it?

 

[john lucas]

It started as a totally convex grind tip.to heel and side to side. Ground by hand. He now sells.the hannes jig that grinds 3 different levels a d very closely resembles his hand grind. You can find you tube videos showing it. When I get to my computer I'll try to find one a d post it.

 

[hockenbery]

I try to read everything I can about tool grinding but the Hannes grind is a new one to me. Just what is it?

Also known as the Michelson grind. Johannes Michelson developed the grind and the method of turning wooden cowboy hats.
I keep one gouge with this grind. It is a great grind and lots of folks use it as their primary grind.
It is like a micro bevel all around and has very little bevel drag.

 

[John Torchick]

I like the Jamison gouge made by Thompson a lot.

I have Lyle's video, Bowl Turning Basics. He describes and illustrates his grind. Spending time in the shop to see what I can conjure up from a piece of wood.

 

[robo hippy]

The Michelson grind involves grinding off almost all of the bevel on your gouge, leaving a tiny, 1/16 inch or so, bevel to rub. It is more user friendly if you are cutting with the wings inside a form. I have used it a little and just free hand grind it...

robo hippy

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

To hollow end grain boxes
I would drill a depth hole 1/4-1/2 in diameter
The use a spindle with fingernail grind cut from center to side wall use about a 1/3 of sharpened side from the tip to cut to the side wall.
The clean the bottom and sidewalk with a round nose scraper sharpened a little bit down the left side.

A termite tool, hooktool, hunter will do a nice job too

A spindle gouge with a short fingernail grind will work like spoon bit drill when pushed into the center and then used for back cutting the opening larger. The back cutting technique is when the tool is supported on the edge of the opening at about the 9 o'clock position and the cutting is at about the 1 to 2 o'clock position. The cut starts at the bottom and works out to the rim, but as the opening gets larger it is harder to work the outer edge so the ring or hook tool can take over.

 

[hockenbery]

A spindle gouge with a short fingernail grind will work like spoon bit drill when pushed into the center and then used for back cutting the opening larger. The back cutting technique is when the tool is supported on the edge of the opening at about the 9 o'clock position and the cutting is at about the 1 to 2 o'clock position. The cut starts at the bottom and works out to the rim, but as the opening gets larger it is harder to work the outer edge so the ring or hook tool can take over.

Don I have demo clip where I showed that exact technique. It is something many beginning turners find too challenging. So it isn’t something I recommend unless I know the skill level.

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

Don I have demo clip where I showed that exact technique. It is something many beginning turners find too challenging. So it isn’t something I recommend unless I know the skill level.

Yes it definitely takes practice.
I have done many demos of making translucent natural edge goblets where only two tools were used on the inside that being the detail gouge to make the cup and bull nose bured scarper to refine the shape. After all of the demos I don't know if anyone watching ever tried back cutting.