Collet Based Quick Change Handles

[Scott Horton]

I'm interested in one of the ER collet quick change handle options out there. Like the one Robust makes. My experience with collets in other apps is it takes one move to tighten, and 2 to loosen. On my mill's ER32 collets for example, I tighten with a spanner wrench. When you loosen you have to first loosen the collet ring with the spanner, then turn it about a half turn where it gets tight again, then the second wrench loosening releases the tool. (First is loosening the ring, second is the ring pulling the collet out of the taper). Regular routers use these kind of collets, too and behave the same.

Seems like the other ER collet-in-a-handle options would behave similarly. What's your experience with them as far as the ability to hand tighten and hand loosen while still holding the tool safely? I'm a little worried about tool rotation if it's not tight, and how hard it is to get loose if it's properly tight.

I've considered these:
Woodcut Twin Collet (ER20)
Axminster (ER20) - comes with a "optional" spanner
Simon Hope Quick release (Acetal collets that advertise no lockup)
Jimmy Clewes (Don't know what's inside his)
Robust (ER25 or ER32)

Carter products makes an R8 collet based handle as well, but it would behave different than an ER. And theirs are solid metal which I'm not a big fan of.

@Steve Chaplin ? I saw in an old post you had one of them.

​

 

[Clifton C]

Haven't used any of them but JoHannes Michelsen has a version...
Just adding to the mix.

HannesTool

 

[hughie]

They work well I have used the Vicmarc variety, a bit pricey for the convenience down under. But very handy if do demos around the country. I prefer a handle per gouge.
I have a cam lock on my big lathe tool post.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

Jimmy Clewes also sells some.

 

[JeffSmith]

I use the Robust version - works very well - one hand tighten/loosen, add a slight bump on the handle butt to jar it loose. I like mine a lot. The one I've got is on one of the Ellesworth designed handles. I like it so well I've considered buying a couple more of their collet kits, but I still have a couple of Hoseluk adapters to use up first and I don't need any handles for the time being...

 

[cascayou]

Scott, something important to mention is that the Robust collet system is different from the machinist version. The collet is inserted upside down inside the holder. To release the tool you hit the handle on a hard surface and the collet drops releasing the tool

 

[Neil S]

Simon Hope Quick release (Acetal collets that advertise no lockup)

I mostly use the Simon Hope quick release and they are just a half turn hand twist either way to lock or unlock.

I like longer handles, but as light as possible, so I prefer his acetal and aluminium construction as its much lighter than the steel options.

I also have the light aluminium Clewes QR. It is not a collet style, but a cam lock mechanism... I found mine will sometimes vibrates lose and needs to be periodically tightened up, but that might just be the declining strength my wrists nowadays...

 

[Bill Blasic]

I have the Woodcut, the Jimmy Clewes, the Michelsen version, the Serious Tool Works version and Kelton ER handles and I don't really use them. For whatever reason I like the handles that use two grub screws, especially the original Thompson Tool Handles that were round and foam covered. Don't ask me why I don't know as the Woodcut and the Keltons are round with foam handles so you would think I would use them. The Serious is also round and foam handled but it locked the tool in by tightening in either direction (with about 1/4" movement) but what always happened was I would forget which way I locked it and invariably I would turn it the wrong way and make it even tighter and then have to get the water pump pliers to unlock it (that is why I know I don't use that one ). Maybe I'll make an effort to use them more often.

 

[Michael Nathal]

I have one Jimmy Clewes handle and I hand tighten it, seems fine. Although i don't own any, the thing I always liked about the Hannes Tool version was the use of a bench-mounted wrench to quickly lock and unlock the collet.

 

[Dennis Weiner]

I'm interested in one of the ER collet quick change handle options out there. Like the one Robust makes. My experience with collets in other apps is it takes one move to tighten, and 2 to loosen. On my mill's ER32 collets for example, I tighten with a spanner wrench. When you loosen you have to first loosen the collet ring with the spanner, then turn it about a half turn where it gets tight again, then the second wrench loosening releases the tool. (First is loosening the ring, second is the ring pulling the collet out of the taper). Regular routers use these kind of collets, too and behave the same.

Seems like the other ER collet-in-a-handle options would behave similarly. What's your experience with them as far as the ability to hand tighten and hand loosen while still holding the tool safely? I'm a little worried about tool rotation if it's not tight, and how hard it is to get loose if it's properly tight.

I've considered these:
Woodcut Twin Collet (ER20)
Axminster (ER20) - comes with a "optional" spanner
Simon Hope Quick release (Acetal collets that advertise no lockup)
Jimmy Clewes (Don't know what's inside his)
Robust (ER25 or ER32)

Carter products makes an R8 collet based handle as well, but it would behave different than an ER. And theirs are solid metal which I'm not a big fan of.

@Steve Chaplin ? I saw in an old post you had one of them.

​

I noticed that you “liked” one of my old posts on tool handles.
Post in thread 'Quick release adapter'
https://www.aawforum.org/community/threads/quick-release-adapter.14758/post-146114
I ended up making a robust er32 for a club member.

Recently I cohosted a club IRD on creating woodturning handles, specifically the quick-release cam lock handle. In the past 20 years or so I have owned two legacy CAM lock handles that many of my tools fit into via adapters. I figured out how to make my own mechanism and in this meeting I demonstrated how to make this mechanism with tools typically found in a woodturning workshop. The cost being under 20 bucks for the cam lock mechanism. You can buy a 5/8” mechanism from Jimmy and use adapters for tools smaller than 5/8” if you don’t feel creative. If interested in viewing this demo, please PM me with your email address for link access.
Here is one of the handles that I made and posted here a couple of months ago.
Post in thread 'May 2022 Turning Challenge: Turn Something with Metal!'
https://www.aawforum.org/community/...e-turn-something-with-metal.19281/post-196699

 

[Scott Horton]

I use the Robust version - works very well - one hand tighten/loosen, add a slight bump on the handle butt to jar it loose. I like mine a lot. The one I've got is on one of the Ellesworth designed handles. I like it so well I've considered buying a couple more of their collet kits, but I still have a couple of Hoseluk adapters to use up first and I don't need any handles for the time being...

Yes, it's that second loosening, done with the "bump" you describe that I'm concerned about.

Not sure what the Elsworth handle is though. Noob. I hear the name a lot.

 

[Scott Horton]

Scott, something important to mention is that the Robust collet system is different from the machinist version. The collet is inserted upside down inside the holder. To release the tool you hit the handle on a hard surface and the collet drops releasing the tool

yep. All of the ER handles I've mentioned have the collet in backwards. I understand why. Concerned abotu getting them tight enough by hand, then the ability to beat them out (bumping to release LOL). Not all of them look like they have solid ends, so the foam would be toast pretty quick. I like the wood varaints for the wood handle, but also like the ability to set the tool deep on the handle or turn it around, I don't think the wood variants are bored out to accommodate that or give that range of stickout.

 

[john lucas]

See my article in this months woidturning Fundamentals on making a quick release handle using an R8 collett

 

[Scott Horton]

See my article in this months woidturning Fundamentals on making a quick release handle using an R8 collett

Thanks, I'll see if I have access to it. I've seen your thread reinforced PVC that you made ears ago. Pretty good idea. The think I don't like about the R8 solution is the need for a drawbar. And the drawbar eliminating the ability to adjust the tool stickout length. Carter products makes one, made from Alu that looks good. Not sure I'd care for their bare alu handle though. And I'm crafty enough to DIY an R8 solution, just like the potential adjustability of the ER collet's through hole.

 

[Scott Horton]

They work well I have used the Vicmarc variety, a bit pricey for the convenience down under. But very handy if do demos around the country. I prefer a handle per gouge.
I have a cam lock on my big lathe tool post.

Hughie, thanks, I'd missed the Vicmarc variety. Cam lock it appears, not ER collet. No us distributors show them at all.

 

[Dennis Weiner]

Quick release cam lock are available up to 5/8" from Jimmy clewes

 

[Scott Horton]

Quick release cam lock are available up to 5/8" from Jimmy clewes

I know, they ar ein my original list. The question is, how well do they work? What issues do they have, etc. Vs a ER collet. e.g. Michael said he'd expereicned some loosening in use sometimes.

 

[hughie]

Hughie, thanks, I'd missed the Vicmarc variety. Cam lock it appears, not ER collet. No us distributors show them at all.

Hmm they may have discontinued the handle , I couldnt find it either. It worked on the idea of two bushes, one eccentric and as you rotate the non fixed bush it locked. It worked well, a bit fiddly to make , cast aluminium and machined. I made one out of curiosity not sure where it is now.

found it https://vicmarc.com/product-page/turning-tools/tool-handles-detail

 

[Scott Horton]

Hmm they may have discontinued the handle , I couldnt find it either. It worked on the idea of two bushes, one eccentric and as you rotate the non fixed bush it locked. It worked well, a bit fiddly to make , cast aluminium and machined. I made one out of curiosity not sure where it is now.

found it https://vicmarc.com/product-page/turning-tools/tool-handles-detail

I had found it on their page, but no one carries them, a least not USA resellers.

 

[hughie]

I had found it on their page, but no one carries them, a least not USA resellers.

yes I suspect the price is its down fall, using a conventional collet set up would be cheaper as the collets are massed produced for a few dollars each. Might make another one for my Pro-Forme hollower with the long shaft, it would simplify the length adjustment.

 

[Neil S]

I know, they are in my original list. The question is, how well do they work? What issues do they have, etc. Vs a ER collet. e.g. Michael said he'd experienced some loosening in use sometimes.

That was me that had the Clewes QR sometimes loosen on me.... never enough to let the gouge go altogether, but just enough for the gouge to start rotating. However, your wrists might be stronger than mine and this may not be an issue for you.

They are made by Doug Thompson so made well enough, so I don't think it is the engineering but probably the user. The only other issue I found with them is the depth to which you can insert the gouge shaft. It has a blind end on it that limits how far the gouge shaft can go in, which is an issue with very long shafted gouges like the Woodcuts, and to some extent the D-ways. I haven't done it yet, but intend to drill through or cut off the blind end to allow for more depth adjustment.

 

[Dennis Weiner]

That was me that had the Clewes QR sometimes loosen on me.... never enough to let the gouge go altogether, but just enough for the gouge to start rotating. However, your wrists might be stronger than mine and this may not be an issue for you.

They are made by Doug Thompson so made well enough, so I don't think it is the engineering but probably the user. The only other issue I found with them is the depth to which you can insert the gouge shaft. It has a blind end on it that limits how far the gouge shaft can go in, which is an issue with very long shafted gouges like the Woodcuts, and to some extent the D-ways. I haven't done it yet, but intend to drill through or cut off the blind end to allow for more depth adjustment.

Good to know. Did you contact him to troubleshoot the problem?
Do you use different tools in the same handle?
If so, Are they all the same diameter?

I have owned the Exocet and serious tool cam lock handles for over 20 years and there has never been an issue. They are strong and have never failed. They hand-tighten and hand-loosen flawlessly. The handle extensions tend to bind up on both mfg. They use a different locking mechanism than the tool adapters. I am currently working on a 32" one-piece handle with my own cam lock to avoid this inconvenience.

 

[Scott Horton]

They are made by Doug Thompson so made well enough, so I don't think it is the engineering but probably the user. The only other issue I found with them is the depth to which you can insert the gouge shaft. It has a blind end on it that limits how far the gouge shaft can go in, which is an issue with very long shafted gouges like the Woodcuts, and to some extent the D-ways. I haven't done it yet, but intend to drill through or cut off the blind end to allow for more depth adjustment.

Good to know. I'd presumed it had a through-hole. That means their pre-made wood handle versions are going to be similarly shallow. I think one of the pros of a QC handle is the ability to adjust and move the tool in the handle. Seems like a miss on their part. Since a blind hole would be way harder to manufacture than a through hole (mill vs drill at least), maybe they found some reason not to do a through hole in a wood handle. Weaken it too much maybe?

 

[Neil S]

Good to know. Did you contact him to troubleshoot the problem?
Do you use different tools in the same handle?
If so, Are they all the same diameter?

I talked to Jimmy about some other things but didn't think to raise that issue with him. No doubt, if it is a generic problem, it would have been raised by others.

I mostly use 5/8" BGs, plus a few 1/2", 3/4" and 1". They are all interchangeable for each diameter. Both the Clewes and Hope are colour coded so no issues with finding the right handle to fit a gouge. My preference is to have a bunch of handles for each diameter rather than adding clunky adaptor sleeves to the gouges so everything fits the same handle, but each to their own.

 

[Neil S]

Since a blind hole would be way harder to manufacture than a through hole (mill vs drill at least), maybe they found some reason not to do a through hole in a wood handle. Weaken it too much maybe?

That is why I didn't just cut off the end first up, just in case there was an issue in terms of strength if I did that. But. having used it for awhile now I doubt if that will be an issue. Might be worth checking just in cast the design has changed as mine was made a few years ago.

 

[Dennis Weiner]

I talked to Jimmy about some other things but didn't think to raise that issue with him. No doubt, if it is a generic problem, it would have been raised by others.

I mostly use 5/8" BGs, plus a few 1/2", 3/4" and 1". They are all interchangeable for each diameter. Both the Clewes and Hope are colour coded so no issues with finding the right handle to fit a gouge. My preference is to have a bunch of handles for each diameter rather than adding clunky adaptor sleeves to the gouges so everything fits the same handle, but each to their own.

I understand your adapter sleeve preference. The system I use can adapt round, square, and tanged tools to adapt into one handle if i choose. My adapters cost me a little over 1 Dollar US. I don't pay 20 dollars per tool. The adapters are guaranteed to fit my cam without issues.

 

[Neil S]

I understand your adapter sleeve preference. The system I use can adapt round, square, and tanged tools to adapt into one handle if i choose. My adapters cost me a little over 1 Dollar US. I don't pay 20 dollars per tool. The adapters are guaranteed to fit my cam without issues.

Yes, Dennis, I've seen what you have done and appreciate your craftsmanship. I have so few square and tanged tools that require a longer handle, but should I acquire some in the future I would definitely add some of your style of adaptor to those, thanks.

 

[Dennis Weiner]

Yes, Dennis, I've seen what you have done and appreciate your craftsmanship. I have so few square and tanged tools that require a longer handle, but should I acquire some in the future I would definitely add some of your style of adaptor to those, thanks.

Thanks for all the kind words. I know that this system is a hard sell. Most of my tools came with handles and I am not converting them over.
Practically all the woodturners I know have their turning tools established. When I gave the demo on how to create the handle, I got 4 members out of 50 to build them. I was surprised I got that many!

 

[Steve Chaplin]

I use the Robust ER25 and ER32 collets. They are great if you like making your own handles. One downside is they require unusual sized Forstner bits, 13/16" for the ER25 and 15/16" for the ER32. So figure in the cost of those if you don't have bits in those sizes.

 

[Dave Hulett]

I'm interested in one of the ER collet quick change handle options out there. Like the one Robust makes. My experience with collets in other apps is it takes one move to tighten, and 2 to loosen. On my mill's ER32 collets for example, I tighten with a spanner wrench. When you loosen you have to first loosen the collet ring with the spanner, then turn it about a half turn where it gets tight again, then the second wrench loosening releases the tool. (First is loosening the ring, second is the ring pulling the collet out of the taper). Regular routers use these kind of collets, too and behave the same.

Seems like the other ER collet-in-a-handle options would behave similarly. What's your experience with them as far as the ability to hand tighten and hand loosen while still holding the tool safely? I'm a little worried about tool rotation if it's not tight, and how hard it is to get loose if it's properly tight.

I've considered these:
Woodcut Twin Collet (ER20)
Axminster (ER20) - comes with a "optional" spanner
Simon Hope Quick release (Acetal collets that advertise no lockup)
Jimmy Clewes (Don't know what's inside his)
Robust (ER25 or ER32)

Carter products makes an R8 collet based handle as well, but it would behave different than an ER. And theirs are solid metal which I'm not a big fan of.

@Steve Chaplin ? I saw in an old post you had one of them.

​

I have tried several quick change tool handles . I have a Robust with 4 collets but not crazy about them. They are very heavy. probably not a big deal if your using it with a 5/8" or 3/4" gouge but for anything small the weight makes it prohibitive for me.

I have become a big fan of the ones Jimmy Clews has. very simple twist of a cam to release/tightnen.

 

[Tom Lucas]

I have 3 Jimmy Clewes. All 5/8". I bought the adapters for smaller diameter tools. My experience is just like Neil S. I do like them for bowl gouges. But, because of the blind bottom, I don't care for them for spindle gouges. Just too long with new steel. They do make stopping to sharpen easier and therefore occurring more often.

 

[Dave Fritz]

I have tried several quick change tool handles . I have a Robust with 4 collets but not crazy about them. They are very heavy. probably not a big deal if your using it with a 5/8" or 3/4" gouge but for anything small the weight makes it prohibitive for me.

I have become a big fan of the ones Jimmy Clews has. very simple twist of a cam to release/tightnen.

That's interesting Dave. The wt. of the Robust quick change tool handle is exactly what I like. I use it with a 1/2 inch bowl gouge and find that the wt. is easier for me to not bounce on the tool rest as I make my cuts. I don't use it on spindle work.

 

[Chuck Engstrom]

Quick release cam lock are available up to 5/8" from Jimmy clewes

Not all gouges marketed as five-eighths are exactly 0.625 inch diameter -- I have a couple of Oneways that are 0.640" and they won't fit in a Clewes unless you take it apart and bore it out to fit the larger size ..... and then it will be too big to hold a true 0.625". I've used brass plumbing fittings of various configurations to make this sort of tool handle, most of which I had to bore out a bit to fit various tools, then saw a kerf into the flare sleeve to enable it to clamp down on different tools.

 

[Steve Chaplin]

I had same problem with a D-Way gouge was only 0.600.

 

[Dennis Weiner]

I asked Jimmy if he would consider making a 3/4” size quick release size so that it can accommodate more turning tools. When he said he wouldn’t I proceeded to make my own. The round handles that fit the system need to be close to the same size of the cam but not larger. Not even by a thousandth. Similarly you may have a handle that will not have an ER32 collet it size. So you are limited to gouges that fit standard sizes collets that are available. The solution to the problem was to standardize the two parts. The cam hole and the part that goes in the hole. 3/4” cam always will work with a 3/4 adapter. The adapter can be drilled to accept any size gouge or tanged turning tool that’s smaller than 3/4. That is a high percentage of our tools. The round turning tools such as 3/4 boring bars will fit directly into a handle. You should only have to own one handle of one length. That’s been my vision. That and keeping my cost down.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Hughie, thanks, I'd missed the Vicmarc variety. Cam lock it appears, not ER collet. No us distributors show them at all.

I have purchased directly from Vicmarc more times than I care to admit. Victor likes to windsurf and dreams of coming to Maui. If he answers the phone, we always talk about his possible trip here. His brother Enzo was supposed to come the same month that Covid shut us down. Even adding the shipping, the prices are very competitive or cheaper than buying from a USA dealer.

 

[Dennis Weiner]

I have purchased directly from Vicmarc more times than I care to admit. Victor likes to windsurf and dreams of coming to Maui. If he answers the phone, we always talk about his possible trip here. His brother Enzo was supposed to come the same month that Covid shut us down. Even adding the shipping, the prices are very competitive or cheaper than buying from a USA dealer.

Good to know! I would have bought it from them had I known that the 3/4” quick lock was available along with adapters.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I have a Robust ER collet set and I spent some time fine tuning the collets using a diamond hone to chamfer the edges of the slots in the collets. It’s easy to tighten and loosen the collets, no tools needed. If the collet sticks, a little bump releases it.

 

[Dave Hulett]

That's interesting Dave. The wt. of the Robust quick change tool handle is exactly what I like. I use it with a 1/2 inch bowl gouge and find that the wt. is easier for me to not bounce on the tool rest as I make my cuts. I don't use it on spindle work.

to each his own!

 

[odie]

An alternative thought:

I don't know if anyone is aware of this, but you can re-use your old wooden tool handles to use the handle-less double ended gouges currently available. That is, if it is adapted to the same or a larger diameter gouge it originally came with. (For adapting to a larger diameter, you'll have to drill the receptacle hole out to the correct size and depth.)

What needs to be done, is remove the old used up gouge from the handle, along with the old ferrule. From the end view, and using your bandsaw, make two cuts, 90° apart about 3-4 inches deep.....so the four "staves" can flex a bit. Install the new gouge tool steel. Where the ferrule was, now install a hose clamp. Screwing the clamp down will tighten the four "staves" to the new gouge steel you wish to use.

Most of us who have been turning for awhile, will have a few old wooden tool handles just laying around, so it's a natural evolvement to a new gouge, using the old handle......I'm one who would rather do this, than spend money on these expensive interchangeable handles. (Yeah, I'm kind of a scrooge in that way!)

-----odie-----