Dyes - Water Based or Solvent Based?

[Allen Mattsen]

I've been wanting to add color to some of my projects and the world of dyes is new to me. I'm looking at Hampshire Sheen Intrinsic colors and Keda dyes.

I'd like to know the considerations between solvent based and water based dyes and why you would choose one over the other?

Keda dyes offer powders, solvent based liquid, and 'ready to go' liquid dyes. Intrinsic dyes are water based (and ready to use). I realize Chestnut spirit stain is alcohol based and another, albeit more expensive, choice.

Keda sells these two options (powder details first image, solvent concentrate image two) and these two options seem to be a lot of bang for your buck (powders or liquid/concentrated).






So, why would one go the water based route vs one that you can choose your own solvent or use alcohol?

 

[john lucas]

I have mostly used water based. You do need to raise the grain before dyeing. Cant compare to alcohol based.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Include Transtint (liquid concentrate) and Transfast (powder) dyes for water/alcohol as the carrier - use either or both at the same time. I have a lot of experience with Transtint, none with Transfast, flatwork and turning. I also use WD Lockwood oil based dyes (powder) and mix into oil and or varnish.

The advantage of alcohol is no grain raise, and can be mixed with shellac - the Chestnut dyes use a bit of shellac as a binder. Transtint can be mixed into shellac or lacquer for spraying toner coats - can get very vivid and intense color with toner.

The advantage of the oil based is to mix directly into your oil or varnish to add a bit of color - its difficult to get hi intensity with that method.

If I want hi intensity but dont want to spray, I put on a coat or two of alcohol base, then mix some color into the oil/varnish.

 

[Brian Nowak-Thompson]

I'd pay more attention to the dye composition, otherwise you'll end up with fading. Transtint and Colortone are metallized dyes and much more fade resistant than your typical analine dyes. I had some Artisan-brand dyes that faded within 30 days, and I have also notice they react with some woods and change colors irrespective of sunlight exposure. Beware--some information I have seen makes a distinction between water-based and alcohol-based as determining colorfastness. This is not true.
I have also found dyes hard to control and get them where you want them--they bleed easily because they are carried by the solvent. I tend to use color pencils and burnish the colored area to smooth it out if I am going for color details.
I attached a summary of some dye and pigment information I pulled together for our club. I relied heavily on information from Bob Flexner's sites and articles as well as a few others

 

[John Dillon]

I've been wanting to add color to some of my projects and the world of dyes is new to me. I'm looking at Hampshire Sheen Intrinsic colors and Keda dyes.

I'd like to know the considerations between solvent based and water based dyes and why you would choose one over the other?

Keda dyes offer powders, solvent based liquid, and 'ready to go' liquid dyes. Intrinsic dyes are water based (and ready to use). I realize Chestnut spirit stain is alcohol based and another, albeit more expensive, choice.

Keda sells these two options (powder details first image, solvent concentrate image two) and these two options seem to be a lot of bang for your buck (powders or liquid/concentrated).




View attachment 42006View attachment 42007

So, why would one go the water based route vs one that you can choose your own solvent or use alcohol?

There's a pretty extensive conversation titled "Solution for dyes" dated July 4, 2020. Not exactly sure how to link it here but can be found using search feature.

 

[John Tisdale]

Take a look at WD Lockwood, www.wdlockwood.com.
They have been providing dyes to the furniture guys for over 100 years.
I've used their walnut metal complex that is soluble in either water or alcohol - I use it with water since I always sand/rub-out as part of my process.

• First spritz with water
• Towel dry
• Spritz with diluted dye
• Towel dry

They will provide you with a "sample set" of five colors for a nominal price.
And they have tech support group that will talk you through the specifics.

 

[Ed Davidson]

Over the past 20 years or so, I've used about six different brands of alcohol dyes. Never used water or powder based coloring on wood. Of all the brands I have used, the best hands down IMHO is Nick Agar's Chroma Craft. The thing I like most is that it comes in 4oz liquid bottles, 5oz aerosol cans and pen/markers. The colors match, regardless of the application container. The markers are really handy for coloring finer detail and lines, with little to no bleeding if you're careful.

 

[Bill Blasic]

My main dye is TransTint and my carrier is Acetone. The acetone carries the dye deep into the wood and I know it is set when I cannot smell the Acetone. I have found TransTint to be extremely light fast. Here is an article I wrote on light fastness of dyes and such. I like the Chroma Craft dyes but my favorite still is TransTint.

 

[Lou Jacobs]

Ed, I’m continually blown away by your tops. Real things of beauty, and fun too!

 

[Ed Davidson]

Ed, I’m continually blown away by your tops. Real things of beauty, and fun too!

Thanks Lou...here's another fun one:

 

[Randy Heinemann]

I have used both water and alcohol as either will work with the concentrated dyes. I tend to use denatured alcohol more because it seems to do a better job of getting the dye into the grain than water. I have used premixed alcohol based also. The best suggestion I can give is to take a piece of wood the same (or at least similar) to your piece, sand it to the same grit, and try the dye. With concentrates and either water or alcohol you can make the dye as dark or as light as you want but it requires some experimentation to know what the proper mixture is. You can always put more coats of a higher concentration of dye to make the color more vivid if the color isn't bright enough.

 

[Bill Blasic]

Another good thought that I should have added is to bleach the piece before the dyeing.