Help needed

[Emiliano Achaval]

I'm writing an article, and I would like to know if you say mortise or recess? Recess would be the opposite of tenon when chucking. Some YouTube masters are calling the recess a mortise. Is that an acceptable name? Also, when you make an urn, the "hole" where the lid goes in, whether a screw-on lid or push fit, is that a recess or a mortise. Would it make a difference to add, say, African blackwood insert with female threads into the recess? Would it then be a mortise? I always thought mortise was a "carpentry" or furniture maker word. I never heard a professional woodturner say now make a mortise. They always say make a recess for the chuck. I say, I will now glue the insert into the recess. I'm woodturning not building a Sam Maloof chair, LOL

 

[hockenbery]

I use recess for the chuck mount.

A hole in the top of a form I call the opening.

People will understand either.
If I were drilling a hole for a stool leg I would call that a mortise.

 

[Randy Anderson]

I suspect most turners have done traditional woodworking so the term mortise and tenon is well understood so I doubt you will cause any confusion. In the turning world I don't recall hearing a turner use the term mortise. They always say recess so that's what I would recommend.

 

[Bill Blasic]

Emiliano as far as the urn I would say opening. As in "Thread the top to the opening where you inserted the cremains."

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

So, it would be: measure the opening to accept the threaded insert. And I will continue to call the recess for the chuck a recess. One Youtube master has caused some confusion, LOL Thank you Al, Bill and Randy!!

 

[Kirk Amidon]

That is a tough call, Emiliano. While my background is in flatwork and the term Mortise is clear, for those who don't have that background it may not be. My eyes were opened to this when I was doing a show and tell at my turning club where I was showing a vessel and had to describe how the staved section was joined to the segmented sections via a rabbet. One member said "I don't understand all that woodworking mumbo jumbo, can you draw me a picture?" Can you add a picture/drawing to the article?

 

[Daniel Henry]

mor·tise
/ˈmôrdəs/
Learn to pronounce

noun

1. a hole or recess cut into a part which is designed to receive a corresponding projection (a tenon) on another part so as to join or lock the parts together.
   "a mortise and tenon joint"
   

verb

1. join securely by using a mortise and tenon.
   "the top plate of the rudder assembly can be mortised to the top of the rudder post"

 

[David Wrate]

Recess.
Mortise is used when something is permanently inserted into the space, a tenon most commonly but also a hinge or a strike plate on a door frame.

 

[Timothy White]

More food for thought.
the OG 4 jaw Nova chuck came with dove tail jaws. A dove tail joint consists generally of pins and tails unless you are joining two boards to get a longer board. then both sides of the joint are called tails.
I quit trying to define this and started calling them “innes” and “outies”

 

[robo hippy]

I usually use the term recess for turning. I think I always use the term tenon for the 'other' part, which is also called a spigot, which I think is British, but not positive on that one. If we call one a tenon, then the other would be called a mortice, though not sure that it really makes any difference, as long as people understand.

robo hippy

 

[Marc Banka]

I believe that one creates a rabbet for the brass insert. ’Mortice’ is more correct. I like that it’s specific, specifically cut to fit the tenon (chuck). Whereas a recess…a divot, dent, hole. Obviously, it’s commonly used, and I’m fine with it.

(it’s still a mortise)

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

I call it a mortise but I use a tenon for turning. I have had bowls split in half from the outward pressure with the mortise.

 

[john lucas]

What I learned from Youtube was it was a morris and tendon.

 

[William Rogers]

Now that you have a mix of replies. I have always called it a recess. I have used the term mortise when there is a mating part to be fitted into it. I don’t consider the chuck because it is not permanently installed. It would be strange to hear it called a mortise, but I would recognize the person is talking about a recess. As for the urn I would call it a mortise.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

As to turning when I started turning (less than 20 years) the terms were expansion mode and compression mode. It is possible that the terminology was in a transition at that time as now I hear mortise regularly.

A side note text books from over 50 years ago on woodworking called them Mortise and Tendon joints. Confused me as tendons are attached to muscles.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

mor·tise
/ˈmôrdəs/
Learn to pronounce

noun

1. a hole or recess cut into a part which is designed to receive a corresponding projection (a tenon) on another part so as to join or lock the parts together.
   "a mortise and tenon joint"

verb

1. join securely by using a mortise and tenon.
   "the top plate of the rudder assembly can be mortised to the top of the rudder post"

Google and dictionaries won't help here. Only experienced woodturners. Have you ever seen a manual translated by Google from Chinese to English? LOL

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

What I learned from Youtube was it was a morris and tendon.

Trying to keep a straight face here.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

As to turning when I started turning (less than 20 years) the terms were expansion mode and compression mode. It is possible that the terminology was in a transition at that time as now I hear mortise regularly.

A side note text books from over 50 years ago on woodworking called them Mortise and Tendon joints. Confused me as tendons are attached to muscles.

I have never seen them referred as tendons. Only my veterinarian says that when he checks my horses, LOL

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I believe that one creates a rabbet for the brass insert. ’Mortice’ is more correct. I like that it’s specific, specifically cut to fit the tenon (chuck). Whereas a recess…a divot, dent, hole. Obviously, it’s commonly used, and I’m fine with it.

(it’s still a mortise)

Interesting, another word. I'm going to keep it simple. An opening for the urn, a recess for the chuck.

 

[Neil S]

D

I suspect most turners have done traditional woodworking so the term mortise and tenon is well understood so I doubt you will cause any confusion. In the turning world I don't recall hearing a turner use the term mortise. They always say recess so that's what I would recommend.

...Ditto

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Thank you to everyone that took the time to help me out. Interestingly, different countries have adopted different words to describe the same thing. This becomes a difficult challenge when trying to translate English woodturning articles into Spanish. I was wondering if, in England, a recess would not be called a mortise. I got enough info to make sure my article is as accurate as possible.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Recess.
Mortise is used when something is permanently inserted into the space, a tenon most commonly but also a hinge or a strike plate on a door frame.

Thank you. Looks like 90% of us call it a recess. And mortise, at least to me, is more of a woodworking, as in furniture maker, word.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

As to turning when I started turning (less than 20 years) the terms were expansion mode and compression mode. It is possible that the terminology was in a transition at that time as now I hear mortise regularly.

A side note text books from over 50 years ago on woodworking called them Mortise and Tendon joints. Confused me as tendons are attached to muscles.

I noticed my autocorrect was typing tendon when I was inputting TENON. Is that what happened @Gerald Lawrence or you meant to say they used to be called tendons?

 

[Randy Anderson]

Funny, one of my turning friends learned it as the word as "tendon" when he first started and even after learning it's a tenon he still says tendon a lot out of habit. Early bad habits can stick with you.

 

[Doug Freeman]

While mortice is the technically accurate word (everyone agrees the male side is called a tenon , logic concludes the female side would be a mortice) it isnt a big deal to call it a recess.

At some point a mortice or recess becomes a hole or opening. Certainly once the interior walls become larger than than the opening (hollowing) its a hole or opening, but what about depth? Is a 6” deep hole still called a mortice or recess even though the mating tenon is 1” long? To me it becomes a hole, or opening, once depth is greater than functional necessity - I know, its not pertinent to Emiliano’s question, just wondering what others thoughts are.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I noticed my autocorrect was typing tendon when I was inputting TENON. Is that what happened @Gerald Lawrence or you meant to say they used to be called tendons?

No what I wrote is what it was. First heard this from Capt Eddie and then others said the same

 

[hockenbery]

No what I wrote is what it was. First heard this from Capt Eddie and then others said the same

I hear lots of folks say “tendon” Fairly common but wrong.

If fine woodworking says it ain’t so it ain’t so

 

[robo hippy]

Hmm, maybe like bowls vs bowels......

A rabbet, to me is a long groove, like some thing you would slip a piece of plywood into for a drawer bottom.

I have an Easy Chuck. The arrows on it for 'open' and 'close' are for tenons, and not for a recess, which would be the other direction. Open/close would work better for me.

robo hippy

 

[Tom Gall]

What I learned from Youtube was it was a morris and tendon.

Not to be confused with a Morris Taper.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

@Emiliano Achaval , I would use the more common term, but with the first use indicate the synonyms. For example: "cut the tenon (a.k.a. spigot) to the proper size." Then everyone will be happy.

 

[Timothy White]

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Nova teknatool, the company that made the first 4 jaw wood turning scroll chuck, calls it a “dovetail recess”. I would think it logical to call a straight outie a tennon or a spigot A dovetailed outie would be called a dovetail spigot.
Not that it makes any difference. After all a stopped clock is right twice a day. While writing this, spell check kept changing tenon to tendon.

 

[Earl McLain]

I have never seen them referred as tendons. Only my veterinarian says that when he checks my horses, LOL

Just don't let him look at your calves.
earl

 

[Daniel Henry]

Oh what a tangled web you have woven!

 

[Greg Carles]

Being brand new to turning , I recognize the term recess more than a mortise..

Just my .02 cents

 

[hughie]

Run with standard vernacular then everybody will know what you're on about. Sometimes 'correct English' is more confusing, remember for many of your readers English may well be their 2nd or 3rd language. Sometimes correct English is a bit like Castilian

 

[Mike Johnson]

Until the woodturning guild standardizes terms and definitions used in the craft, you will always have different terms used by different people
based on multiple variables. In the trades you will find different words used in different parts of the country and world for the same item. This
has been an ongoing process for many international guilds trying to get everyone on the same page using the same terms to avoid any misunderstanding when sharing articles on products, processes and procedures.

 

[Pat Patterson]

Interesting, another word. I'm going to keep it simple. An opening for the urn, a recess for the chuck.

In your article you could say recess or mortise if you are concerned. I would never call the top hole a mortise.
Pat

 

[Bill Boehme]

The "correct" term is mortise. Mortise and tenon are the traditional terms used in woodworking ... In chairmaking, for example, the most common type of joinery is mortise and tenon. You can also plough a linear mortise across the surface of a piece of wood. "Recess" was my favorite activity in elementary school. That could cause confusion when translating into the King's English. A "rabbet" is a notch cut on the edge of a piece of wood and which translates into British woodworking magazines as "rebate" which, in turn, will confuse the heck out of American readers who think it is about getting money back when buying a product. Steer well clear of both "rabbet" and "rebate". And, please don't use the word "rabbit" unless you really are writing about a cute animal with ears that are long and soft.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

The "correct" term is mortise. Mortise and tenon are the traditional terms used in woodworking ... In chairmaking, for example, the most common type of joinery is mortise and tenon. You can also plough a linear mortise across the surface of a piece of wood. "Recess" was my favorite activity in elementary school. That could cause confusion when translating into the King's English. A "rabbet" is a notch cut on the edge of a piece of wood and which translates into British woodworking magazines as "rebate" which, in turn, will confuse the heck out of American readers who think it is about getting money back when buying a product. Steer well clear of both "rabbet" and "rebate". And, please don't use the word "rabbit" unless you really are writing about a cute animal with ears that are long and soft.

But, the big question is, what should I use in my article? The correct word, and risk getting 100 guys saying they all call it recess or go with the flow? I always like to use the right terminology, but in this case, I might be swimming against the current. Autocorrect keeps thinking that I'm talking about school recess, LOL
This is one of the big problems that the English language has; one word could mean more than one thing! In Spanish, we have a name for everything; we do not double up, or even triple up. We have different names for the same parts, pieces, or tools in different countries. I came across this translating Journal articles to Spanish. Some were impossible to translate. Like sheer scrape.

 

[Robert Satterfield]

Hey Emiliano, just take a couple sentences to Identify that both terms are in common usage and proceed with your personally used/ comfortable term...I prefer mortise but I understand recess and wouldn't get my shorts in a bundle with either term...