Irish grind?

[John Torchick]

A recent issue of the AAW magazine had a great article about the rise of the Irish grind. I checked my bowl gouge and it has the parabolic shape shaft. The U-shaped shaft was not good for the Irish grind. Here- can it be ground on a Wolverine setup with the Vari-grind 2 jig? Or is it done done freehand? Thanks.

 

[hockenbery]

I use the Ellsworth jig

You can get real close to theEllsworth grind with the vaigrind

 

[John Torchick]

Thanks. Will look at the article again and go from there.

 

[hockenbery]

Thanks. Will look at the article again and go from there.

Don Geiger came up with a cute way for setting the varigrind to get close to the Ellsworth grind.
You put the measure the height of the pivot point with front of the jig on the table.
I have to find some notes that give the height or ask Don.should see him tomorrow.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I could be mistaken, but I believe that the term "Irish grind" is a somewhat generic name for a swept back grind and doesn't have the precise geometry that you would find in well known profiles such as the Ellsworth grind or the Batty 40/40 grind.

Irish woodturner Liam O'Neil is credited with originating the long swept back grind, but there doesn't seem to be a documented precise definition. Ellsworth's design is a derivative of the Irish grind.

 

[Dennis J Gooding]

A recent issue of the AAW magazine had a great article about the rise of the Irish grind. I checked my bowl gouge and it has the parabolic shape shaft. The U-shaped shaft was not good for the Irish grind. Here- can it be ground on a Wolverine setup with the Vari-grind 2 jig? Or is it done done freehand? Thanks.

The Irish grind as depicted in Ellsworth's recent article appears to be a freehand grind. However, you can obtain excellent side grinds with the varigrind jig by setting the arm angle at about the middle of its range (I use 40 degrees) and setting the v-arm to get the desired nose angle. The Ellsworth jig basically does just that. The exact value of arm angle setting is not important. However, if it is set toward the lower end of the range, long wings will become blunt toward their outer ends.

 

[Mike Adams]

After I tried the 40/40 grind, my ellsworth/irish/long grinds disappeared. "Push Cut has a posse ;-)

 

[RichColvin]

The Tormek with the SVD-186 jig works very well also.

• For the "Irish grind" made famous by Liam O’Neil, the settings are
  • JS = 2
  • Projection = 65mm
  • Hole (TTS-100) = A
• For the Ellsworth grind, the settings are
  • JS = 6
  • Projection = 75mm
  • Hole (TTS-100) = A

 

[Fadi Zeidan]

I purchased one of crown’s gouges with Ellsworth grind on it and used that to set my wolverine jig’s angle and distance and use that on my other gouges. I also have the Ellsworth jig and both give me pretty close grinds.

 

[robo hippy]

Well, as near as I can tell, the only real variation in the 'swept back' grinds is that some prefer a straight wing, and others like a slightly convex grind. I wore one Ellsworth grind down to a nub, and almost got there on the second one. I don't use them at all any more. Mostly I don't find them practical, which is heresy for some. I converted to the 40/40 grind a while back, which is most efficient for the outside of a bowl and any convex shape, and for the inside of a bowl down to the transition area. Then I switch to a BOB (bottom of bowl) grind, which I have several variations of, from 60 to 70 degree bevels and a ) nose shape. The only use I can see for a swept back grind would be for shear scraping, and I prefer to do that with scrapers with burnished burrs. I do all of my sharpening on a platform.

robo hippy

 

[hockenbery]

After I tried the 40/40 grind, my ellsworth/irish/long grinds disappeared. "Push Cut has a posse ;-)

I keep one gouge with the 40/40 and use it once in a while.
also have gouge I use a lot with the Michelson grind. Mostly is stick with the Ellsworth.

Like you I found the 40/40 gave a better push cut surface on platters and the outsides of bowls than the Ellsworth push cut.

But the pull cut with the Ellsworth grind gave a superior surface that the 40/40 could yield with either a push or pull cut. So for me if I want a better finish on the outside of the bowl I use the pull cut with the Ellsworth gouge rather than grab the 40/40.
Some folks have trouble seeing the curve with the pull cut so it won’t work If they can’t see the curve.

For inside bowls I much prefer the surface I get from the Ellsworth shear cut.

From my perspective winners are

push cut - 40/40
Pull cut - Ellsworth
Flute up shear cut - Ellsworth
Shear scraping - about equal except for a tight corner where the curvature of the Ellsworth is an advantage.
Scraping - about equal
Back cut - Ellsworth. This is the cut on the surface of square edges

 

[John Torchick]

Spent 90 minutes sharpening my tools including the bowl gouge. After looking closely, it had a wing on it but not as swept back as Ellsworth's. Tried a grind. Need to spend some time trying the bowl gouge to see how it performs. Quit when the knee started to protest. An aside- after being here for a few years, I can see why woodturners have a rack full of tools. Different tools for different cuts, etc.

 

[Mike Johnson]

John,

Don't ever make the mistake of purchasing a left hand lathe or you will have to purchase a whole new set of lathe tools to use on it.

 

[John Torchick]

Thought of that. Budget won't allow for two lathes. I do have a set of left-handed screwdrivers and a LHed hammer. What is extremely rare is a LHed tea cup.

 

[Mike Adams]

Thought of that. Budget won't allow for two lathes. I do have a set of left-handed screwdrivers and a LHed hammer. What is extremely rare is a LHed tea cup.

Those are simple compared to scoring a left-handed grinder and dust collector!