Production Turning

[Sheldon Gerber]

I've been doing some production turning of walnut bowls for the upcoming farmers' market. I don't count myself an "expert" level turner but they're becoming more natural than a year or two ago. For someone who's been turning for a little over two years how do you price your work? I feel they're sale worthy but an expert probably would see flaws right away. I chose the square corner design mostly because they are so shallow and I wanted to retain the size as much as possible for this set.
Any input is welcome...
Sheldon

 

[Sheldon Gerber]

This is my favourite one in the set. Beautiful grain!

 

[hockenbery]

Most everything in woodturning is a tradeoff.

That cylindrical shape holds the most volume for the diameter. - accomplished that goal.
It is a hard shape to turn well - inside corner look s good.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Personally, I do not like that shape at all. That's how we all start. I much prefer a smooth curve on the inside. I do not like to see a 90 degrees steep wall in a bowl. Not only design wise, but it is much easier to sand a nice flowing curve than straight sided walls. I can see a lot of concentric sanding scratches. That is something that I tell my students, they are not ready to sell if they can not sand a bowl perfectly, no tools marks, no torn grain, no sanding scratches. You have enough depth to make an inside curve. Do not sell yourself short, "pay" yourself at least minimum wage. However long it takes you to make a bowl, multiply for whatever you want per hour. Add the BF too. Those bowls will sell well, 99% of people at the market don't have a clue about woodturning.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I agree with Emiliano and Al. I don't think that a dead flat bottom and square corner sidewall is a good look, but then I'm not a typical craft show shopper. My wife says that shoppers at craft shows are hunting for a bargain so price your work to sell at this point. My opinion especially for a beginner is that a sale even if not making any money is a much better morale booster than people just walking by and barely glancing at your wares. Consider it the price of admission.

A big beginner mistake is trying to get the maximum volume out of a piece of wood rather than the best form that you can achieve. I especially agree with Emiliano's comment about the really heavy sanding scratches. Regardless of your skill level to create a pleasing form, you can still get a smooth scratch-free surface that will make any form look nicer and command a better price. Next time, work on improving form and then you can start to show a profit.

 

[Bill Blasic]

Know your market! If only 1 out of 10,000 people that walk by would pay $200 for a bowl don't have more than 1 bowl there at that price. But if 100 of those 10,000 folks would pay $75 well then that's your market. Watch the folks react to the pieces, I find almost every person looking at stock puts their fingers into a bowl to feel what I guess is how smooth it is. Here shiny sells better than dull. Here where I live if I depended on living by selling my turnings I'd have starved to death a long long time ago So you just have to see what sells and what sells this year may not sell again for a few years. You have to know your market.

 

[Tim Tucker]

Learning The Fair Curve, French Curves as a reference near my lathe, and LOTS of books full of pictures from Richard Raffan and many other internationally famous turners is what has helped me. This is after listening to and paying attention to the works and the advisements of the above respondents to your post. Experiment with shapes. It is fun and your eyes and hands will help guide you toward more and more beautiful work. You clearly are gentle in those square inside corners of the bowls because those a "catch-worthy" spots.....

 

[Brian Nowak-Thompson]

This is all great advice even if some of it sounds contradictory on the surface. Knowing your market and what it will pay is something that takes at least as much if not more practice as turning a bowl. I have a hard time remembering that because it deals more with human behavior than making a physical thing which is much easier to understand.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The shape of a vessel or spindle that catches the eye is the same shape you see in nature that attracts and inspires the soul.
There are a large number of books and articles written about design concepts, shapes, contours and colors that attract the human eye.

 

[Sheldon Gerber]

Thanks to everyone for your input. I want to give it a try to do some curved ones as well. I am in a wheelchair and found bowl gouges a bit of a challenge to get a good surface on the inside so have resorted to using carbide. I need to get a proper round one as the one I have is to short to be of much use. ( Was bought back in the early days of being to tight to spend what I should have ) That is why I have been doing the shape I have been. Also on my list is another set of jaws for my chuck. I only have like 3 inch i think and would be easier to play with shape without needing that big of tenon/recesse. And yes, my sanding could use some improvement. It looked fine to me until saw it blown up on a picture in good lighting and then the scratches appeared.
If theres someone that has an input on how to sand properly or of a youtube person to watch sand...? A lot of videos I see say its boring and speed it up (which it probably is LOL )
Sheldon

 

[Sheldon Gerber]

From what you see is it simply not spending enough time on a grit before moving on to the next?

 

[Richard Coers]

The biggest issue with pricing based on time is that beginners really take a long time to make a bowl. Not to mention the gathering of the wood and prep time. In my area, that prices me basically out of decent wage. A bowl like that at the annual nature art show I go to will bring you about $25-$30. This past year I sold nothing over $55. When selling utilitarian work, make sure to tell them to not put it in the dishwasher. I'm not kidding! The trouble with utilitarian work is that the general public has no idea what to do with a wood bowl. Holding car keys is about all they can come up with. Here's some idea of production pricing at a retail level.

10-inch beech bowl with bees oil finish @ BB&B

Small-footed cherry serving bowl @ Holland Bowl Mill

 

[robo hippy]

Besides looks, the main thing that sells a bowl is how it feels when held in your, or the customer's hands. The square shapes never felt good to me. As for cost, well, if there is another bowl turner, stop by and check out what they do, and what their prices are. Generally they are helpful. An 8 inch bowl used to take me 45+ minutes to turn. After some years doing production work, that time came down to less than 5 minutes. Practice helps. The bowl you have in your hand, I would sell for between $20 to $30. Kind of depends on where you are selling them.

Scrapers generally leave a rougher surface than gouges, which is why many prefer gouges. I have found scrapers to be far more efficient in removing bulk, or roughing, especially on bowls. Another 'clean up' method would be shear scraping. I have one video dedicated to that, and another one called 'Scary Scrapers'. The NRSs (negative rake scrapers) also can leave a cleaner surface than standard scrapers, but that depends on the wood as much as anything else. Haven't done a video on that, yet.

I can't really coach you on using gouges in a wheel chair, but there are some who can.

As for sanding scratches, once you get into the 600 grit range, the remaining sanding scratches are invisible to the human eye. I sand to 400, then apply walnut oil (the Doctor's Woodshop) with the grey synthetic steel wool pads, and they are in that 600 grit range. The square edge bowl shape is difficult to sand, other than by hand. The curved shapes are better for power sanding, and I have found that to be far more efficient than hand sanding.

I always considered myself 'semi pro' which means I made enough to support my habit, but not enough to make a living at it. The local craft shows were fun, got me out of the house, and talking to people. Half the people that stopped in my booth were other woodworkers.

robo hippy

 

[Dean Center]

If you are going to continue making flat bottomed pieces, I would strongly recommend using a Negative Rake Scraper rather than standard carbide tools. There are now carbide tools ground with a negative rake edge, which might do a similar job as the traditional NRS's, though I have no experience with them one way or the other.

Several turners in my area started selling their work in various venues. When I looked at their work, I saw unfinished bottoms, lots of scratches, meh finishes, and poor shapes. All three of them were out of the selling business within months. The one who is a member of our club grumbled about it and couldn't understand why he couldn't sell work that his wife thought was just dandy.

You only get one chance to make a first impression. It's really hard for us to see and impossible to feel what someone else's work is like. I would encourage anyone who is thinking of starting to sell their work to ask another turner in their area whose work they admire to give them honest feedback about their work before they put themselves out there.

 

[Richard Coers]

If you are going to continue making flat bottomed pieces, I would strongly recommend using a Negative Rake Scraper rather than standard carbide tools. There are now carbide tools ground with a negative rake edge, which might do a similar job as the traditional NRS's, though I have no experience with them one way or the other.

Several turners in my area started selling their work in various venues. When I looked at their work, I saw unfinished bottoms, lots of scratches, meh finishes, and poor shapes. All three of them were out of the selling business within months. The one who is a member of our club grumbled about it and couldn't understand why he couldn't sell work that his wife thought was just dandy.

You only get one chance to make a first impression. It's really hard for us to see and impossible to feel what someone else's work is like. I would encourage anyone who is thinking of starting to sell their work to ask another turner in their area whose work they admire to give them honest feedback about their work before they put themselves out there.

I agree with the critique, but it is definitely out of vogue on the internet. If you make negative comments on shown work, you are considered aggressive and negative to the growth of the beginning turner. Just try it a few times and see the negative comments and attacks you will get.

 

[Russell Nugent]

There's a difference between being critical and being negative. Perhaps that's the difference.

 

[Lars Hansen]

@Russel: That's not my experience. I've been very focused on starting with praising the effort, the wood etc. and then softly suggesting a point or two for improvement on the next piece.
A few react with interest, most ignore suggestions and way too often someone else makes a sharp comment along the lines of "why focus on the negative aspects". The obvious answer would be that "that's how you get better", but if you try that, the rest of the Mutual Back Scratching Society wil jump you, claws first. Some people go to SoMe to get praise, not to get better. If it works for them, fine with me so I've stopped writing there. Many better turners than I have done the same, leaving the groups exclusively as an echo chamber to the MBSS.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Here is a good read on the importance of critique. The word "criticism" has been so frequently misunderstood that its meaning is often corrupted and confused with terms that express a negative point of view. If someone performing a critique descends into negative statements that have no useful purpose it is fair to say that they are just being a pompous ass.

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

I agree with the critique, but it is definitely out of vogue on the internet. If you make negative comments on shown work, you are considered aggressive and negative to the growth of the beginning turner. Just try it a few times and see the negative comments and attacks you will get.

You are talking about unwanted advice. Here, he asked for C&C. Also, we like to think we are different than Facebook and TicToc here. We have rules, the main one is to be nice. SO no one would attack you here.

 

[Kevin Jenness]

Here is a good read on the importance of critique. The word "criticism" has been so frequently misunderstood that its meaning is often corrupted and confused with terms that express a negative point of view. If someone performing a critique descends into statements that have no useful purpose it is fair to say that they are just being a pompous ass.

Bill, thanks for the link. Obviously there is a big difference between an informed, helpful critique and criticism or adulation. I think most folks here will do their best to offer the former, but it can be hard to critique a turned object based on photographs. At the show and tell portions of our local club meetings the comments rarely go beyond positive re-enforcement and discussion of techniques. It would be great to have a more formal process for evaluating pieces. Do you or anyone else have any references or suggestions for clubs to establish useful critique sessions? I suspect those offering critiques as well as receiving them could have their eyes opened through practice of a good process.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Agree with Emiliano - I have requested some C&C myself on here not all that long ago, appreciate the advice I did get on making improvements , and likely will be posting "progress" every so often, seeinfg what more I might learn (Since I have no local clubs or mentors within my personal driving range limits)

 

[Daniel Henry]

You are talking about unwanted advice. Here, he asked for C&C. Also, we like to think we are different than Facebook and TicToc here. We have rules, the main one is to be nice. SO no one would attack you here.

This is a BIG reason that prompted me join AAW. I had followed other internet forums that were full of unsolicited comments that were beyond negative and totally lacking in objectivity. My father was considered by many to be an accomplished woodworker. He was born in 1917. As many of those "Old" guys he did not say much. However, I am often reminded of one of his adages and I offer it for consideration. "About the guy who kissed the cow, Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

 

[Russ Braun]

I realized the sting of constructive criticism on an early piece of mine; it was most helpful in my growth as a segmenter! Adulation alone, while nice, does tend to reinforce bad habits. Posting in forums specific to your craft should be done to get expert opinions to help your growth! I typically note “my .02” or a comment like that. I always end with an “excellent effort” statement as a wrap. I rarely look for a C and C notation as I assume personal growth is desired on some level when posting. For some reason, this rings true for me on the Segmented site, not so much here!! Taking things personally is a recipe for stagnation, opinions can matter and should be taken with a grain of salt!

 

[Lynn Dudenbostel]

First of all, I'm impressed with the civility of the CC on this forum. Unfortunately, not all forums are like that. I very much agree with the comment that adulation alone does not help one improve. Let me first say that I've made a living as a full time woodworker for 25 years now, building guitars and mandolins. It was a significant portion of our lively hood for 6 years or so before that. As a result I get quite a few new builders who want to show me their work and get my input on what they've done. Number one, you have to be diplomatic. Folks are proud of what they produce and rightfully so. So, I attempt to determine if what they are showing me is the result of a new hobby, or if they have hopes of selling their work and tailor my comments accordingly. Some people just want you to tell them how nice the piece is and to walk away with a smile. Some truly want to take it to the next level and will value good, constructive criticism. However, I have learned to never, ever tell a person how great it is unless it is truly great. It will come back and bite you, eventually. So, how honest can you be with someone? it depends on the individual. So, once I know a little about their background, skill level, and future plans, and after a good look at their work, I'll turn the situation around and ask THEM what they think of it and if there is anything they they want to improve on their next attempt. If they see no room for improvement and aren't one of the rare folks that hand me something that is almost perfect on their first attempt, then I often feel they need to develop their eye first of all and steer them in that direction. While that's a difficult thing to teach, it can, in most cases, be improved. Only after that will I offer some carefully chosen words to get them thinking. I do believe it helps to draw them into a discussion and hopefully let them offer solutions and start a dialog about it rather than to just go down the list of issues and walk away. For most people, it's better if they think it's partly their idea for an improvement. Some people will never progress from where they start, some will do great things. If they are selling their instruments, the market will sort them out accordingly. Developing an eye for the details is of utmost importance, and unless you are your own biggest critic, you have a ways to go.
Sorry for being so long winded.
Lynn

 

[Marvin Jones]

Sheldon, give you a bit of advice on sanding. First of all it is my least favorable part of bowl making but it makes all the difference in the world. You will have to find a method that works for you and you will. The detail you put in the corners of those bowls shows you will figure it out...Power sanding works for me, faster, more uniform. You have to follow a certain set of rules and if you don't, you will not be completely happy with the finished product, ask me how I know. I use 3" hook and loop sanding discs on a drill. Some turners use angle drills, some use non powered spinning discs, some use bigger discs and some sand by other methods. The gist is you need to start with the grit size that removes the imperfections in the wood so that the only thing left is the sandpaper marks. Then you progress through finer grits removing sanding marks until the piece feels like glass. If you see sanding marks, what until you put a finish on the piece, those marks will jump out at you...sand until no marks are visible. You must remove any torn grain, chisel marks or any other issues before moving from the original grit. What grit to start at? I have started at 60, sometimes 80, now most of the time 120. Many of the turners here start at 220 or higher, I'm not there yet. Many turners use smaller grit progression than I use. 120, 220, 320, 400, and sometimes 600 are my normal grits. Many turners use a much higher grit than I and it shows in their pieces that look like wood with an 1/8" of inch of glass overlaid...I have never just tried to sell my pieces, there are those that will buy my stuff when it comes available but you have the perfect opportunity to test the folks in your area and find what sells, what makes people walk over and pick up your bowls. Make all kinds of shape bowls, finish some flat, some shiny then watch people who walk up to your stand and learn from their reactions... When I started out I thought bigger was better and always tried to make the biggest bowls I could, finally a friend ask me if I ever turned smaller ones, duh...most people want to eat out of a plate and not share their food out of a huge bowl in the middle of the table

 

[Tom Gall]

There is an excellent article "The Art of Critique" by Jim Christiansen in the Spring 2004 American Woodturner journal. If you are an AAW member you can look it up. I don't know if it is allowed to post it here ... maybe Bill Boehme would know and post it here if possible. I have it saved on my computer and have referenced it several times over the years.

 

[robo hippy]

Makes me think of a scene from one of the old Monty Python movies about the first art critic. Cave man times, and one guy was urinating on cave wall paintings.... I will listen to any comments about shapes, and some times I agree, some times not. I do always seem to be experimenting, and that is the whole point to me....

robo hippy

 

[Bill Boehme]

First of all, I'm impressed with the civility of the CC on this forum. Unfortunately, not all forums are like that. I very much agree with the comment that adulation alone does not help one improve. Let me first say that I've made a living as a full time woodworker for 25 years now, building guitars and mandolins. It was a significant portion of our lively hood for 6 years or so before that. As a result I get quite a few new builders who want to show me their work and get my input on what they've done. Number one, you have to be diplomatic. Folks are proud of what they produce and rightfully so. So, I attempt to determine if what they are showing me is the result of a new hobby, or if they have hopes of selling their work and tailor my comments accordingly. Some people just want you to tell them how nice the piece is and to walk away with a smile. Some truly want to take it to the next level and will value good, constructive criticism. However, I have learned to never, ever tell a person how great it is unless it is truly great. It will come back and bite you, eventually. So, how honest can you be with someone? it depends on the individual. So, once I know a little about their background, skill level, and future plans, and after a good look at their work, I'll turn the situation around and ask THEM what they think of it and if there is anything they they want to improve on their next attempt. If they see no room for improvement and aren't one of the rare folks that hand me something that is almost perfect on their first attempt, then I often feel they need to develop their eye first of all and steer them in that direction. While that's a difficult thing to teach, it can, in most cases, be improved. Only after that will I offer some carefully chosen words to get them thinking. I do believe it helps to draw them into a discussion and hopefully let them offer solutions and start a dialog about it rather than to just go down the list of issues and walk away. For most people, it's better if they think it's partly their idea for an improvement. Some people will never progress from where they start, some will do great things. If they are selling their instruments, the market will sort them out accordingly. Developing an eye for the details is of utmost importance, and unless you are your own biggest critic, you have a ways to go.
Sorry for being so long winded.
Lynn

You shouldn't apologize for being longwinded because you certainly aren't. You have given us somed excellent insight and advice when someone asks us to critique their work.

There is an excellent article "The Art of Critique" by Jim Christiansen in the Spring 2004 American Woodturner journal. If you are an AAW member you can look it up. I don't know if it is allowed to post it here ... maybe Bill Boehme would know and post it here if possible. I have it saved on my computer and have referenced it several times over the years.

We would need to get the permission of the author and AAW to make it available to the world.

 

[Dean Center]

Our local club was previously in the habit of having a well known turner give a workshop every couple of years. At a regional symposium, I saw one of the demonstrators go around the gallery and comment on the work presented. With that experience in mind, I asked our next visiting expert to do the same. Our guys at the time were not producing such terrific work. Fortunately, the expert providing comments was Trent Bosch and he was phenomenal at gently, kindly, carefully doing so. He found something good in each piece, and provided just a little constructive commentary. He was able to do it, mostly because he is who he is--a genial, gracious, good-natured, considerate person. I'm not sure too many other folks could have pulled it off. It's a real challenging art.

With that in mind, for someone to ask us strangers for feedback is a true act of courage. Plus, as has been mentioned, it's really hard to get a good look and feel for a piece from posted pictures. I respect the courage shown by people who do, but, in all honesty, I'm not sure I'm that brave.

For my definite need for feedback, I have used to a skilled, local woodturner who was also kind and tactful, plus honest and an excellent observer. Sadly he passed away last year.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I do not feel qualified to critique but will give you some advise on sales. Some echoed and some from my experience. The shine does sell and if not shining a great feel helps tremendously. Shape and color also are great attractants. If you cannot get them to stop you will not sell just because they saw it and came back, that is one in a million chance. Also do not rely on bowls only, diversify and you just may punch someones button.

Now as to price that depends on your market. Here bowls just do not sell well and when I do sell that $80 one I celebrate. Many other things done on the late sell such as spoons, honey dippers, pizza cutters, ice cream scoops, Christmas ornaments and much more.

Some has expressed the advise I received as a young Pharmacist; would you rather sell one item for $10 or 12 for $1. So watch your market and diversify.

One last advise for all on this forum. Did you notice the paragraphs. RUN ON LONG POST ARE MAYBE INTERESTING BUT ARE DIFFICULT TO READ FOR SOME FOLKS. Use the lessons you learned in English class and separate ideas.

 

[hockenbery]

One last advise for all on this forum. Did you notice the paragraphs. RUN ON LONG POST ARE MAYBE INTERESTING BUT ARE DIFFICULT TO READ FOR SOME FOLKS. Use the lessons you learned in English class and separate ideas.

When pascal wasn’t inventing his triangle of binomial coefficients he penned this marvelous line-

“I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time”

 

[R Henrickson]

When pascal wasn’t inventing his triangle of binomial coefficients he penned this marvelous line-

“I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time”

Exactly! The most difficult writing I had to do in my academic career was writing 200-300 word entries for encyclopedias where I had to summarize 2000-3000 years of history and archaeological material for individual sites. Every single word was a hard choice. The few that were broader and longer were still difficult but not as painful. As my dissertation described the matter -- "2000 words, I'll do it in month. 200 will take three."

 

[Mark Jundanian]

Use the lessons you learned in English class and separate ideas.

Could you be referring to paragraphs?

I may be eager to read everything you have to say, but I still appreciate the opportunity to blink.

 

[Marvin Jones]

My apologies.

Will use space instead of indents.

Will post shorter.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Use the lessons you learned in English class and separate ideas.

Perhaps to be more inclusive the statement should read, “Use the lessons you should have learned in English class …”

 

[Hugh]

I do not like to look at sanding marks. Go through the grits.....all the way to the point that you can not see sanding marks.

 

[Randy Anderson]

First, nice work and consistency for starting out - I assure you much better than my starting pieces. Finding a place where you can get honest feedback is important. Your friends and family will always just say 'that's nice" and smile.

Local farmer markets and town events with food trucks, bounce house, other vendors with similar price points for their merchandise, etc are usually great venues. At least they are in rural TN where I live. My stuff is usually on the high end of what other vendors are charging for hand made items but in line with expectations. My input based on my market is traditional bowls are very difficult to sell. The only way I can get them to sell is with some embellishments around the rim, holes with jute string woven in, beading, etc. Even then a tough sell for little $. That makes extra time for embellishments hard to justify. That said, you don't know in your market till you try and people buy the darndest things.

Curves, curves, curves - it's the initial attraction after wood color and although they can't articulate it there is a built in human attraction for flowing curves and shapes that feel good in your hand and look good on the table.

I may do some initial 80 or 120 grit sanding with the piece spinning and a flat sheet in my hand but after that it's all 2" and 3" discs on a power sander while rotating the piece by hand to where I need to sand. No matter how hard I try, sheet sandpaper on a spinning piece of wood will leave sanding circle marks around the piece. MS wipe down at various intervals will show you where more work is needed. I do mostly natural edge pieces so spin sanding is really not an option anyway.

For traditional bowls I start at WxHX2 and then add, or subtract, based on subjective things like grain, wood color, extra detail work, etc. So, a 9X3 traditional bowl would start at $54 and then adjust up or down.

Good luck - I really enjoy the local markets. First one for me this season is this coming Saturday and then April is already booked for every weekend.

 

[Donna Banfield]

Here is a good read on the importance of critique. The word "criticism" has been so frequently misunderstood that its meaning is often corrupted and confused with terms that express a negative point of view. If someone performing a critique descends into negative statements that have no useful purpose it is fair to say that they are just being a pompous ass.

Bill, that's a great article on why a critique is so important in our development, and how to do it well.

I browsed the site, and some of the course offerings look interesting. Bill, do, or did you take any of these courses, or is this a site you stumbled on and saved the link for the critique article?

 

[John Walls]

I don't know if it's been asked so I will. Are those bowl bottoms completely flat? IF so, my only suggestion on change/addition, however you look at it, would be to shorten the sides and sell them as platters, they would IMHO sell depending on your market.

I am working on making sanding marks disappear. I'm making the sanding/finishing an enjoyable part of turning, usually work up to 600 and on items I want to make shine, will hit it with 800. On the inside of bowls I use a cheap pneumatic Harbor Freight 2" 90 deg. die grinder with air pressure turned down low and bowl speed ~100rpm, so far is giving me my best results. On the outside of bowls, I use a Dewalt orbital sander, will run through each grit up to 600 unless it's a bowl I use in my work-shop, then I usually stop at 240 as it will bet quite banged up in the end. I have tried many times to use sandpaper free-hand and I always leave deep scratches so I will not do it if possible. I've done flatwork for 50 some years and sanding has always been an enjoyable part, my Zen if you will. That is where *I* truely get a feel for what the finished product will turn out to be. I've only been a turner for maybe 1.5 years, was always something I wanted to do so yes, lathe, I'm a beginner and a slow one at that so take my views with a grain of salt.

Those transition areas are a work in progress for me, I'm working to get a good inside curve. I'm trying to not do a steep side to make the transition area easier for me to make smooth.

With that said, I like your bowls/er, platters!

I see you've not been back in a few days, I hope you do return. Don't let a harsh or UN-expected reply turn you way, sometimes it's those replies that stick with you the longest and end the end, benefit you the most. There's also a lot of great suggestions/ideas from the others, some help me also.

 

[Seth Belcher]

Wow, I tell you something...couple days go by without checking the forum and a person can get behind REAL quick!!!

Hi Sheldon, as has been mentioned, those are some really nice pieces, and your consistency is great! I can't offer any further help on pricing than has already been provided to you. Knowing your market and the importance of form is a learning curve that can be different for everyone.
The only point I will add is don't fall into the trap of pricing your work as if you, or your family were going to buy it.

(Warning: unnecessary background story ahead!)
I come from a quite frugal (cough cough...*cheap*) family history and while sometimes frustrating as a young'n, looking back on it, it was a way of life that I really do treasure because it led me to learn how to do most everything for myself.
I mean, pay for a plumber or electrician? Crazy!
Pay for a mechanic to replace the ball joints in my truck?!? Ridiculous!
Pay for someone to build my first house, or Pay for someone to renovate my second house?!!?? Ludicrous!
Buy a pot bellied stove for my shop when I could just build one out of three tractor trailer brake drums?!? What am I, made of money!?

(Let's be perfectly clear, I'm not advocating someone tackle a job they are not comfortable with, nor have no business doing. All of the previous examples mentioned were personal to me and my experiences, and all were done correctly and safely. Additionally, the Ron Swanson/Lowes meme is purely a joke, I do know when to seek professional help...just maybe not necessarily at Lowes....LOL)

While my history has left me with a lifetime of skills that allow me to be pretty much self-sufficient for just about anything I need/want to do, it has also given me a bit of a jaded perspective that I've had to overcome when pricing my own work. Because what I would pay for a piece, or even what I think would be reasonable for a piece, is certainly not a reflectance of the time, effort, and materials that it took to make it. I've definitely gotten much better at it over the past couple of years but, it all came down to looking at the pieces that I made as if I was unable to make it. And, sometimes I just ask my dad what he would pay for a piece and then triple it. LOL!

Just something to think about!
Thanks for sharing Sheldon!

There is an excellent article "The Art of Critique" by Jim Christiansen in the Spring 2004 American Woodturner journal. If you are an AAW member you can look it up. I don't know if it is allowed to post it here ... maybe Bill Boehme would know and post it here if possible. I have it saved on my computer and have referenced it several times over the years.

I'm about halfway through reading this article and I have to agree, it is fantastic! A lot of thought provoking questions to ask oneself before providing critique.

You are talking about unwanted advice. Here, he asked for C&C. Also, we like to think we are different than Facebook and TicToc here. We have rules, the main one is to be nice. SO no one would attack you here.

This has raised the question in my mind about what really is the best method for requesting critique on a piece here in the forum? Is it just here in the Woodturning Discussion sub-forum like Sheldon has done?
Has there been any consideration to a different sub-forum where submitters can request feedback or critique, with the understanding that areas of improvement WILL be called out? Maybe that idea is redundant, or not something that is desired, I don't know. Just curious.