The key to success in eliminating the need for aggressive sanding....

[odie]

Good morning......I'm still on vacation, but although I'm far from my lathe, I'm "turning in my sleep".....ha! Woke up this early morning contemplating raised burs. It's a little past 3am here, just east of the Sierra-Nevada mountains.......

If a turner pursues lathe turned details and complex shapes, the only way to do that well, is find a way to get a tool finish that requires less initial sanding. Many of you are well aware that more sanding than is absolutely necessary, is that which alters geometric integrity. The more variance in geometric integrity.....the less aesthetic appeal the details and intersecting planes will have. Starting sanding at 220, is good......starting at 320 is 10x better......400, is even better yet! (Don't expect to start sanding at 400 very often, but it is possible.......even 600 is possible when conditions are absolutely perfect, but only once in a blue moon!)

For me, a raised bur on the leading edge of a finishing scraper has been better than a ground bur......and the way to get a perfectly formed raised bur, is to create conditions that lead to that. Basically, the cutting edge prior to raising the bur, needs to be prepped by hand.......both top surface and intersecting top portion of the ground bevel.

The first step, of course, is to grind the bevel on the grinder, or whatever your method for doing this......many are now using cbn wheels, and that ought to be fine for this. Step 2 is to remove the ground bur and leave a smooth uniform top surface that intersects with the leading edge cleanly. I am doing this with a ceramic stone that was developed for sharpening dental tools.....but, other stones and diamond hones will do just as well. After removing the ground bur, a secondary bur is left from honing the top surface. This secondary bur is level with the top surface, and straight forward from the leading edge. This is easily removed with the ceramic stone, plus smooths the irregularities left by the bevel grinding process. The tool is now prepped and ready for raising the bur.

I'm using a Veritas tool for raising the bur, and after that, it's ready to go back into use on the lathe. Just because a well formed bur is created, that's just a necessary step in the process. This formed bur is seldom used in anything but a shear scrape mode. The turner must know how to use it......and, that's a whole 'nuther ball game......

None of this is to suggest that a ground bur is obsolete.....to the contrary. The ground bur is still very useful, but generally when a roughing cut is satisfactory for the purpose at hand. Note: A ground bur is definitely more easily produced than a well formed raised bur........but, the difference in what is capable by both, is significant.

ko

 

[hockenbery]

Kelly,
you should change the title to something like
putting burrs on scrapers

take out the chatty sentences and post it in the techniques part of the forum

Al

 

[odie]

+++++++++++

Kelly,
you should change the title to something like
putting burrs on scrapers

take out the chatty sentences and post it in the techniques part of the forum

Al

No thanks, Al.......the title is exactly what I meant.

ko

 

[robo hippy]

I wish we could have a play date and try out each others burrs. Do you use that raised burr for finish cuts on bowl type work? I do prefer shear scrape on the outside of bowls, and am going back and forth between the NRS and shear scraping on the inside. Waiting to see what your opinions on the NRS is when you try it.

robo hippy

 

[odie]

I wish we could have a play date and try out each others burrs. Do you use that raised burr for finish cuts on bowl type work? I do prefer shear scrape on the outside of bowls, and am going back and forth between the NRS and shear scraping on the inside. Waiting to see what your opinions on the NRS is when you try it.

robo hippy

Hello robo......

Yes, the raised bur is used for a finishing cut. As stated above, the ground bur is still used, and has plenty of functional benefit. The raised bur is not as easy, or quick to acquire, and it has the same disadvantages concerning a short life span as the ground bur.

Sorry, but I doubt I'll be available for a rendezvous anytime soon.

Bill......I realize this thread will likely end up in the "tips" section, but I'm hoping you will leave it in the general forum for a few days before you do that......thanks.

ko

 

[hockenbery]

No thanks, Al.......the title is exactly what I meant.

Your choice!

You have a great description of your technique on how to raise a burr.
The techniques section is a repository of techniques.
It would need title that lets people find it.

I wasn't suggesting you change the title of this post since you want to generate a discussion.
The techniques would need a title of the technique which is raising the burr.

Be shame not to share a great tip

 

[odie]

Oh, yes.....the NRS.......forgot to respond to that.......

robo, I am looking forward to once again trying the NRS sometime in the near future.....since my techniques for raising a bur have changed since the last time I tried one. There might be a disadvantage for getting inside the crotch of an inside corner, where it's most difficult to eliminate the need for excessive sanding. If a NRS is an advantage I can use to improve my methods, I hope to find it.

ko

 

[robo hippy]

Getting through those transition areas can require a lot of specialty tools, or with a shear scrape, when you turn it up on edge, you can fit inside a smaller curve.

I have been out sanding bowls getting ready for the one show I still do. There has been a noticeable difference in the amount of sanding I am doing since I got the 600 grit wheel and started using NRSs. I haven't marked on each bowl the finish cut technique though, too many of them. For sure, dry wood (yes, I do a few) leaves a cleaner tooled surface.

I looked in my tool bench and found some carbide mini drill bits that some one gave me. I may have to take one or two and make a mini burnishing tool and try it on my scrapers, just because....

On where this belongs, I don't know... Some forums break every thing up into specialty sections, some have it all in one, which is what I prefer, with the exception of totally OT (off topic). The tips and techniques section here seems to be pretty slow most of the time.

robo hippy

 

[Bill Boehme]

.... On where this belongs, I don't know... Some forums break every thing up into specialty sections, some have it all in one, which is what I prefer, with the exception of totally OT (off topic). The tips and techniques section here seems to be pretty slow most of the time....

The idea behind the "How To" sub-forum was to have a repository of tutorials that would serve as a knowledge base for the woodturning community ... not too much different than the idea of having a video library ... except one might argue that it requires more effort to actually read something. It's similar to the tutorials that Sawmill Creek created except that they made it more in the form of a blog rather than as a forum ... the difference being more in the details and not so much in the end result. In theory it's a great idea, but in practice it hasn't really sprouted legs either here nor over at the Creek. The WoW forum also has the File Cabinet which is a similar feature that has some good stuff from years ago, but not much is being added these days. I haven't checked to see what Wood Central has in the way of tutorials. I think that the biggest impediment to this idea gaining traction is the perceived effort needed to put together a tutorial.

I'm glad that the AAW is creating their repository of links to video tutorials. Maybe something similar can be done for written tutorials before reading goes completely out of style.

I have been raising burs on my NRS for about ten years with a burnishing tool after grinding on my Tormek. I've been told by ex-spurts that it can't be done that way ... it can ONLY be done on a bench grinder. I just nod my head in agreement and then continue doing it the way that can't possibly work. About your carbide mini drills, I think that this is much easier to do and probably much more effective if you use a large diameter rod ... sort of similar to why a large diameter wheel rolls easier over rough ground than tiny wheels do.

 

[robo hippy]

Hmm, sounds like the difference between 'article' and discussion...

Some one, can't remember who had a burnishing tool with maybe an 1/8 inch carbide rod in it, and it would turn a really nice burr. I believe it was a more PSI thing with the smaller bit compared to the larger diameter burnishing rods, but need to experiment. I may even have to try one of the Veritas burnishers. If for no other reason, to see if it is worth honing off the grinder burr, and then raising one with a rod. No matter how much I hone though, there is always a tiny burr left. If I hone off the top, then it is on the bevel, and if I hone off the bevel, then it is on the top, and never seems to go away no matter how light my touch is. I did find that with my card scrapers, I generally got a better burr if I burnished the new one down first then bought it back up. I didn't have CBN wheels then though... My first Symposium, the last one in Portland, the guy who demoed before me, stated flat out that you could not hand burnish a burr on HSS because it was too hard.... Watching him really crank down on the Veritas burnishing tool did raise my eyebrows.... Like you, just continued doing what I had been doing...

robo hippy

 

[john lucas]

Although I'm a fan of what we call shear scraping I still think if you can get the shape with a cutting tool instead of a scraper you can start sanding with finer grits, which as Odie said is what it's all about if form and especially detail is important. For example it's hard to shear scrape right up to the corner where a bead touches the other surface. Same is true if you have details such as V grooves. these need to be cut because you really can't scrape or even shear scrape them. so I prefer to use sharp cutting edges and only resort to shear scraping when all else fails.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Hmm, sounds like the difference between 'article' and discussion...

Some one, can't remember who had a burnishing tool with maybe an 1/8 inch carbide rod in it, and it would turn a really nice burr. I believe it was a more PSI thing with the smaller bit compared to the larger diameter burnishing rods, but need to experiment. I may even have to try one of the Veritas burnishers. If for no other reason, to see if it is worth honing off the grinder burr, and then raising one with a rod. No matter how much I hone though, there is always a tiny burr left. If I hone off the top, then it is on the bevel, and if I hone off the bevel, then it is on the top, and never seems to go away no matter how light my touch is. I did find that with my card scrapers, I generally got a better burr if I burnished the new one down first then bought it back up. I didn't have CBN wheels then though... My first Symposium, the last one in Portland, the guy who demoed before me, stated flat out that you could not hand burnish a burr on HSS because it was too hard.... Watching him really crank down on the Veritas burnishing tool did raise my eyebrows.... Like you, just continued doing what I had been doing...

robo hippy

The burnishing tool that I have is pretty old ... it says "MADE IN W. GERMANY". It isn't carbide. I think that it might be case hardened 1095 steel judging by the dark color. It is highly polished and oval in cross section. The oval cross-section give the benefit of a larger diameter without actually needed to be larger diameter. The reason that I said that I think that a larger diameter works better than a small diameter is that you are in effect pushing a bow wake of metal in front of the burnishing rod. If the bow wake gets too high relative to the diameter of the burnisher then it's more difficult to smoothly control the shape of the bur.

Now that I know that you can't burnish a bur on HSS according to the ex-spurt that you saw at Portland, my imaginary bur seems to do OK.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Although I'm a fan of what we call shear scraping I still think if you can get the shape with a cutting tool instead of a scraper you can start sanding with finer grits, which as Odie said is what it's all about if form and especially detail is important. For example it's hard to shear scrape right up to the corner where a bead touches the other surface. Same is true if you have details such as V grooves. these need to be cut because you really can't scrape or even shear scrape them. so I prefer to use sharp cutting edges and only resort to shear scraping when all else fails.

A skew makes a pretty good NRS and if you're gentle it can get into some corners, but never ever try to shear scrape with it... at least not the kind of shear scraping where you lower the handle ... just don't ask me how I came to this conclusion or I might have to lie to you.

I was standing really close to the guy who did it and it was an exciting thing to see.

 

[john lucas]

One of the shear scrapes I do is with the handle held very high. I mean like 1 oclock or 2 oclock. This is such a light cut that I often do it without being on the tool rest. You can't get a catch doing this. I use it as a final cut on my mirrors where I have just a tiny touch of tool marks or a small area with torn grain. I wouldn't do that with the skew of course.

 

[odie]

Thanks for some discussion that leads to thoughtful contemplation.

If it's a small diameter burnishing rod vs a larger diameter, you would think that since the contact surface is theoretically a point, it shouldn't make much difference in the capability of the rod to raise a bur.....but.....is the contact area really a point? Since the act of raising a bur is actually moving metal, wouldn't that contact area actually elongate, although very slightly? If it does, then you would think the diameter of the burnishing rod would be a factor to consider in whether the contact area would be an impediment, a positive influence, or a non factor in the ability to progress through the length of the bur, while in the process of it's being formed.

I believe an important element to consider here, is the angle of the bevel in the scraper grind. If it's very narrow angle, the bur will have the ability to be formed more easily than if the angle is larger. The very tip of the cutting edge will be stronger with a larger angle, and inversely true as well. Now, if that is true, then what robo is indicating about the bur being transferred from one side to the other in trying to eliminate it, then this may effect it's ability to do so.

One thing to consider about the Veritas jig, is it incorporates a leverage point for applying pressure, forcing the scraper into the carbide post. This, is less important than if angle of the bevel is small, where the force necessary to create a bur is less than if the bevel angle were larger. This, I believe, is a good thing, but it's another important point to consider that the height of the bur is less important to it's ability to cut, than the resiliency of the bur to last longer.

ko

 

[odie]

One of the shear scrapes I do is with the handle held very high. I mean like 1 oclock or 2 oclock. This is such a light cut that I often do it without being on the tool rest. You can't get a catch doing this. I use it as a final cut on my mirrors where I have just a tiny touch of tool marks or a small area with torn grain. I wouldn't do that with the skew of course.

That is a great insight, John.......and, I've done exactly the same thing......holding a scraper entirely off the tool rest. I thought nobody would believe me if I told them about it, or they would think I was completely nuts!

ko

 

[Bill Boehme]

I think that we all may had one things similar to what John described. I've used a scraper really low on the exterior of a turning without using the rest. No need to raise the handle ... In fact you could even lower it. The tool is trailing away from the force just like it is when sanding on the lathe which makes it safe to do without the toolrest.

 

[robo hippy]

Oh, that handle high no tool rest shear scrape makes my sphincters pucker.... That to me sounds more like card scrapers... I wouldn't do it with a handled tool, but think I could see it being done and comprehend... The problem that I can see with handle high is getting past the balance point on the scraper and getting high sided when cutting, which is why I always keep the handle low and a ) nose so it is impossible to get high sided and catch.

Interesting point about pushing the metal Odie. When I do burnish a burr, it takes more grinding time to get the bevel cut clean all the way to the top surface, even if I burnish down the old burr. You can over burnish to the point where your burr is like a broken over wave that is almost impossible to cut with without having to really raise the handle. With my bevel at 70 degrees, I have the burnisher at 80 or so. Like you said, height is not important, shape is, and a tiny burr can be very aggressive when applied properly because it is so strong.

I can get all the way up to the edge of a detail with the small fluteless gouge from Doug, in shear scrape mode, 70 degree bevel, ) nose, and working on the very bottom edge of the tool, tool rest a bit low. The one advantage to the shear scrape compared to the bevel rub is that I can get a pretty much dead on true surface, where with the bevel rub, there always seems to be a tiny bounce. With the shear scrape, you just remove the high spots till the surface is true.

Still can't figure out why it is called a shear 'scrape'. To me, scrape is cutting edge at 90 degrees to the rotation of the wood. To some, a scrape means no bevel rub. When the cutting edge is at an angle to the rotation, then you have a shear cut, but not a scrape. don't know what else to call it though. It is a distinctly different cut from a bevel rub and a scrape. It does slice at a skewed angle rather than pull scrape.

robo hippy

 

[stu senator]

Just a thought

There are many carbide scraper bits out there. After they get dull could they be used as a burnisher with the proper fixturing?

As I do not have any of these tools I could not even try a thought experiment out.

Stu

 

[chrisdaniels]

this may be a rookie question but would stropping with a leather strip on a hard maple block make any difference? same thing I use for my hand plane blades. I still cannot get a sheer scrape to do any good, 90 percent of the time when I try it, the surface gets torn up so i'm doing something wrong. I just use a NRS with a 35/35 grind.

Chris

 

[MichaelMouse]

There is only one tangent "point" possible on a convex burnisher. Oval burnishers just make the slide angle a bit less steep on the long face than the smaller diameter. The folks in the flat side recognize a turned edge as acting like a low-angle plane. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_scraper Thus confirming the seeming paradox that high pitch planes and extreme low pitch handle gnarly grain better than the middle pitches. My York pitch LV works tight curl as well as my low-angle LN smoother.

As to avoiding sanding, The broad sweep gouge, presented so that the final depth is established with a feathered exit cut works a treat, and since the tool may be skewed for support across its breadth, it's virtually catch proof.

Slick edge leading, feathered trailing. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/W-ShavingsDemo.jpg

Dry and heavy, even. If the expanded side of the shaving is as smooth as it shows, imagine how nice the compression side - the piece being turned is. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d160/GoodOnesGone/ShavingWide.jpg

Old Frank Pain was right. The wood will let you know how it wishes to be cut.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Just a thought

There are many carbide scraper bits out there. After they get dull could they be used as a burnisher with the proper fixturing?

As I do not have any of these tools I could not even try a thought experiment out.

Stu

I could be wrong, but my opinion is that the little carbide inserts used in turning tools are too small and not the right shape to be easily adapted to raising a bur. If you have any solid carbide router bits with a half inch shank that would be ideal. The burnishing tool doesn't need to be carbide ... in fact most such tools are a very hard steel such as case hardened and quenched 1095 steel.

this may be a rookie question but would stropping with a leather strip on a hard maple block make any difference? same thing I use for my hand plane blades. I still cannot get a sheer scrape to do any good, 90 percent of the time when I try it, the surface gets torn up so i'm doing something wrong. I just use a NRS with a 35/35 grind.

Chris

Raising a bur on a scraper involves using a harder material to deform the edge of a tool so that a sharp edge is pushed up. Things work best if the burnishing tool is harder than the scraper steel. If this is what you are asking about, then the answer would be no, However, if you are asking about stropping an edge after it has been ground then the answer is a qualified yes. The Tormek tool uses a leather wheel that has been oiled and charged with a fine abrasive polishing compound.Trying to do this on a regular leather strop would probably lead to dulling the edge slightly.

 

[MichaelMouse]

The nature of tungsten carbide makes it highly unlikely that you could "turn a burr" on it. It's a brittle material, and turning a burr wants some malleability. If you want the effect of a turned burr, look at cutters similar to those used in the Hunter tool. Not that some are not trying to machine rather than form, apparently. https://www.deepdyve.com/lp/elsevier/ductile-cutting-of-tungsten-carbide-djixojbXhW

 

[john lucas]

Well you may have to give us more information about how you are holding the tool. Shear scraping with a fresh burr is really cutting not scraping. You should get very fine shavings that will clean up tearout and tool marks. It may take several light passes because this isn't a hogging cut it's a very fine cut. Check out my video and see if it helps you.
Bill and Reed I should tell you that when I do the shear scrape without the tool rest the handle is almost straight up. This is only on the outside of a bowl or on my mirrors or platters. It's perfectly safe. I do a demo where I simply hold the handle and touch the wood several times without using my left hand to guide the tool. This shows how it won't catch.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oeiVQLeOd4

 

[hockenbery]

I should tell you that when I do the shear scrape without the tool rest the handle is almost straight up. This is only on the outside of a bowl or on my mirrors or platters. It's perfectly safe. I do a demo where I simply hold the handle and touch the wood several times without using my left hand to guide the tool. This shows how it won't catch.

I agree this is safe. The only thing that could catch would be a sharp corner on the top edge of the scraper. That is going to hurt the work and not the turner. I have done this with square edge scrapers that should have the sharp edge relieved.

It is especially used for following a slightly warped surface.
I have also inadvertently lifted off the tool rest while using the shear scrape with side ground gouge and have seen several people do it in a demo probably not intending to.

Al

 

[Bill Boehme]

The nature of tungsten carbide makes it highly unlikely that you could "turn a burr" on it. It's a brittle material, and turning a burr wants some malleability. If you want the effect of a turned burr, look at cutters similar to those used in the Hunter tool. Not that some are not trying to machine rather than form, apparently. https://www.deepdyve.com/lp/elsevier/ductile-cutting-of-tungsten-carbide-djixojbXhW

Michael, we were talking about using the tungsten carbide as a burnishing tool to put a bur on a HSS tool ... Not putting a bur on the tungsten carbide ... at least that's the way I read the question. I don't know of any carbide burnishing tools although some people have said that they think that the Veritas burnisher is tungsten carbide. The burnisher that I use is no longer available ... it was made by Hirsch Werkzeuge.

 

[robo hippy]

John, I am not sure if I ever noticed, but your shear scraper in the first part is a NRS. Interesting, and it looks like the angles are at 90 degrees to each other, and it is straight across with no sweep. You could do a paper drawing of the rectangle shape of the tool shaft, have it at the shear angle you use and draw a plumb line through to the resting spot on your tool rest, and they would line up almost dead on. If your shear angle was closer to 45 degrees, they wouldn't. So the cut is safe, but it still makes my sphincters pucker....

Now I am wondering if we can burnish burrs on carbide tipped tools..... I can do it on my Big Ugly tool....

robo hippy

 

[stu senator]

<little carbide inserts used in turning tools are too small and not the right shape>

I saw 16mm (5/8dia) with a 3/16" hole. shown on http://www.eddiecastelin.com/cutters_only

I am sure that the top or bottom flat surface is large enough to use. You only need a point contact on a curved surface to raise a burr.

I myself currently use a hardened steel pin in a handle to raise a burr. The burr is on a sharp edge and does not need that much force to form. The pin may not be hard enough (Rc 50-58 per http://unbrako.com/pins.html) to last, but they are replaceable when required.

Stu

 

[MichaelMouse]

Michael, we were talking about using the tungsten carbide as a burnishing tool to put a bur on a HSS tool ... Not putting a bur on the tungsten carbide ... at least that's the way I read the question. I don't know of any carbide burnishing tools although some people have said that they think that the Veritas burnisher is tungsten carbide. The burnisher that I use is no longer available ... it was made by Hirsch Werkzeuge.

You do know that tungsten carbide tools employing a simulated "burr" (not raised) to cut are available, though? The carbide can't be re-turned, however, because of its structure. Carbide inserts can be re-ground on SiC or diamond wheels, but forms no burrs that way either.

 

[Bill Boehme]

You do know that tungsten carbide tools employing a simulated "burr" (not raised) to cut are available, though? The carbide can't be re-turned, however, because of its structure. Carbide inserts can be re-ground on SiC or diamond wheels, but forms no burrs that way either.

I've dropped and/or worn out enough tungsten carbide tools over the years to learn a few things about them. Rule #1 told to me by a machinist after I mentioned that I dropped a brand spanking new solid carbide router bit: If you drop a carbide cutter, don't even bother to look down, just go to the tool crib and get another one [or in my case go to Woodcraft and buy another one]. I also have the type of tungsten carbide cutters that you are talking about for my Rolly Munro guarded cutter that I use on my boring bar hollowing rig. The Hunter tools that John Lucas mentioned also use that type of cutter. They are nice ... and also pricey.

 

[hockenbery]

The Hunter tools that John Lucas mentioned also use that type of cutter. They are nice ... and also pricey.

Gouges are getting expensive too.
My favorite gouge is the Jamieson made by Thompson, I paid a $100 for it.
I added an 18" sapelli handle I turned so call it $10
A nice company gave me a #4 Hunter it retails with handle for $95. replacement #4 retail at $23 each.
For a cost comparison A hunter and 5 replacement tips runs $210 Two Jamieson gouges and a $10 handle cost $210.
I don't know which would last longer unless I hit a nail.

 

[john lucas]

Yes tools are getting expensive. I remember when I bought my first bowl gouge it was something like $24 and took me several months to get up the courage to buy it. Now I have a full compliment of Thompson tools and most of the Hunter tools along with a lot of homemade tools. I still have my first skew, spindle roughing gouge and parting tool. No I take it back these aren't the first ones. These are the second ones. My first ones were Shopsmith tools which were junk. The second set I got came from Woodworkers Supply and they look exactly like Sorby's. they have held up well. There's not telling how many hours I have on that spindle roughing gouge. It's one of my most used tools.
I used to think tools were expensive, and granted the initial cost gets your attention. However if you sharpen with a jig and light touch they last a very long time. I just used up my first thompson bowl gouge that I bought when Doug started making them. It is my most used tool and yet I got that many years out of it. Don't remember when Doug started making tools but it was quite a while ago. So if you divide the cost by the number of years I got out of that tool it's really pretty cheap. The same is true with Hunter tools. The tool itself will last forever. The cutters last a very long time so if you divide the $23 replacement cost by the number of projects turned with that cutter you'll find out it's a pretty good bargain. I know I said this before but one of the best things I did was to look at my tools as consumables. I used to be afraid to sharpen them because I would use them up. When I realized that they were consumables I sharpened them much more often. This did two things. First it taught me to sharpen because I sharpened a lot. This taught me how to have a light touch and consequently I take very little steel off with each sharpening. Second, I enjoyed my turning more and actually use less sandpaper which might actually pay for the gouge over the long haul.

 

[Bill Boehme]

John, when I first started turning I think that the cost of a bowl gouge was about $35. The first time that I saw Doug at SWAT was around 2005 or 2006, I think. He had a little table with a handful of tools. He hadn't yet decided to quit his day job. A lot of folks stopped to talk to him and enough people bought his tools that he sold out fairly quickly. It was good to see that his business was sprouting legs and running within a few years.

Knowing what prices were then and seeing today's prices puts a pucker on my purse drawstrings. Your comment about sharpening with a jig and using a light touch on the grinder caused an "aha" moment and made me think more globally about the total cost of tools, jigs, and grinders. Justifying the cost of a CBN grinding wheels might be much easier if we consider that a smooth running vibration free grinder removes less metal and thus extends tool life (just for clarification, let's not clutter the issue with facts ... like a balanced matrix wheel can more or less accomplish the same goal ... after all, the goal is stimulating the economy ... or something along those lines). The same thing applies if using a Tormek. I use a Tormek for most of my tool sharpening and all of my turning tools look hardly used even after more than a dozen years of moderate use.

 

[chrisdaniels]

I started turning when I was medically retired last year in march, since then I have spent waaaaaay more money on turning tools and turning in general than a rookie should! I am still trying to figure out what grinds on what gouges I like best, my issue is that i'm always afraid to try a different grind because it uses so much metal to regrind it. I just got a gl4/gl6 combo and a gl5/gl7 combo and they have just been sitting in the packaging until I feel like i'm good enough to use them! I bought a 1/2" henry taylor kryo spindle gouge months ago and it's the least used tool on my wall, can't use the darn thing without getting a catch, I think the grind is too long...

 

[Bill Boehme]

I started turning when I was medically retired last year in march, since then I have spent waaaaaay more money on turning tools and turning in general than a rookie should! I am still trying to figure out what grinds on what gouges I like best, my issue is that i'm always afraid to try a different grind because it uses so much metal to regrind it. I just got a gl4/gl6 combo and a gl5/gl7 combo and they have just been sitting in the packaging until I feel like i'm good enough to use them! I bought a 1/2" henry taylor kryo spindle gouge months ago and it's the least used tool on my wall, can't use the darn thing without getting a catch, I think the grind is too long...

When I'm turning, I just pick up a sharp gouge and go. When that one gets dull, I grab another one and don't fret over what grind it has except for certain situations like reaching the bottom of a deep bowl. I would say that if you use one swept back profile, stick with it. Later when you buy another gouge, you might try another grind. For the most part you can use them interchangeably.

 

[hockenbery]

I bought a 1/2" henry taylor kryo spindle gouge months ago and it's the least used tool on my wall, can't use the darn thing without getting a catch, I think the grind is too long...

I had the same problem sometime last century.
You will get a catch every time you put the tool in position where the wood can drive down onto the cutting edge.
Also often with a spindle gouge if the cutting edge touches the wood before the bevel is in contact it will kick back.
Cutting on the lower edge eliminates most catches.

1 Tool on the tool rest
2 bevel on the wood not cutting
3 raise the handle and roll the tool to engage the cutting edge
4 follow the cut.

I like my spindle gouges with a 30 degree bevel.

Find a good video,
Practice beads and coves on small spindles.
You will get it....

Turn 30 bottle stoppers and you will,own the spindle gouge
Al

 

[hockenbery]

I suggest you look at a couple of videos by @john lucas

Beads

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=UUZrs6ZBE4MSW-cA72xg8Uhg&v=bjYehUsMdB4

Coves

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=UUZrs6ZBE4MSW-cA72xg8Uhg&v=DSybPNw4F1o

 

[Mark Hepburn]

Find a good video,
Practice beads and coves on small spindles.
You will get it....

Turn 30 bottle stoppers and you will,own the spindle gouge
Al

Hey Al,

I remember you giving me the same advice in Pittsburgh and I've been doing that ever since. Practicing beads and coves nearly every time I'm at the lake before I work on the project.

It's been really good advice so thank you for that. It's like warming up before you exercise and, for me, has been a great help in all aspects of my turning. I've seen a real difference in my comfort level over time, and use the same approach with different tools.

 

[robo hippy]

You do know that tungsten carbide tools employing a simulated "burr" (not raised) to cut are available, though? The carbide can't be re-turned, however, because of its structure. Carbide inserts can be re-ground on SiC or diamond wheels, but forms no burrs that way either.

Well, I may have to try to find a flat carbide insert to see if I can burnish a burr on it. I can do it with the tangung, which is a cast particle metal similar to carbide, but not as fine grained as the 'micro' or 'nano' grained carbide that is used on the modern carbide tipped turning tools. I can turn the old one down and bring it up again which does 'refresh' the edge. Tantung is very brittle similar to carbide so that if you drop it, it will chip or shatter. I have sharpened some carbide tips on my CBN wheels, and it does leave a tiny burr, though I haven't done much of that. No idea how long the burr lasts...

MM, what is a simulated burr? Like a tiny burr from the grinding wheel, but not the burnished burr??

robo hippy

 

[john lucas]

Reed I know that some carbide metal cutters have a recess just behind the cutting edge to facilitate lifting and clearing the chip when turning metal. I wonder if that's what MM is talking about with the simulated burr. I'm headed to the shop. Just for the heck of it I'm going to try and raise a burr on my EZ wood tool. I'll let you know later today how or if that worked.