Walnut bowl blanks from firewood

[Greg Carles]

I recieved some firewood and to my surprise it had some nice walnut rounds mixed in. I refuse to burn good walnut so I cut some up for bowl blanks today. I really have not turned a bowl yet but I am getting stocked up for when I learn how.
The Walnut is at 34% moisture (measured on a pin type meter) so I got them cut and put some anchor seal on the end grain and put them in the garage to start drying.
Due to cutting the pith out , some of the blanks are only 5 inches due to being limbs on the small size, and the biggest ones are around 9 inches.
Am I going about this the right way?
I am taking a class next week at WoodCraft called intro to bowl turining and will have a ton of quesitons for the instructor.

I am going to attach some pics for everyone to see of my process.
After cutting some of the blanks had hidden knots that were not on the outside of the round but burried deep into the log, you can see on the pic that there are some small knots? The outside was perfectly clean with no limbs - So where did they come from??? And will it be a problem when I go to turn them???
Using a circle cutting jig on my band saw I made short work out of cutting them up.
I was able to get 13 blanks that would have been burned as firewood.

Thanks for any comments.

 

[Lou Jacobs]

Nice haul! Just wear breathing protection when you get to sanding your finished bowls as some (including me) are sensitive to walnut dust. The knots are branch stubs that died or were cut off earlier in the tree’s life and grew over. They will make an interesting feature in the finished bowl, but may be a challenge as the wood dries, as they can be prone to cracking and are a different density and grain orientation than the surrounding wood. Sometimes cracks in branch stubs provide an opportunity for filling with a contrasting (or camouflaging) filler, for example turquoise dust with epoxy or CA. Have fun with your class!

 

[Greg Carles]

Hey thanks, some of the medium rounds had double piths so I did not use them. Ever seen that? And with the rounds getting smaller and smaller I did throw those into the firewood pile. I thought about making spindle blanks but by the time I removed the pith there would not be much left other than some maybe 1X1 pure walnut with out any sap wood.

Always keeping my eye out. Would love to come across some Osage Orange sometime-- AKA hedge apple tree.

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

That looks to light for black walnut and the bark doesn't look right. That could be white walnut (or butternut) but still a nice wood to turn. White walnut is softer then the black and will probably be more forgiving as it dries, meaning it can except more stress from shrinkage without checking. The photos show some black walnut limb cuts and as you can see the bark is much darker. Note: the 3 pieces in the foreground and the horizontal piece on top are the only walnut. The pieces on the bottom of the pile are red oak. The pieces were cut last spring and I am going down to Mpls in about a weeks time to cut down the main trunk and hall it back to the Lakes country.

Below is a natural edge crotch bowl from the same tree scraps.

 

[robo hippy]

Well, you did every thing right in prepping your blanks, you even cut a bit off the ends to remove possible checking. Now, on to the class. Walnut is pretty stable. I don't turn it any more since it makes me sneezy and itchy.... Oh, you will have more questions to ask after your class too. This is a good place to ask!

robo hippy

 

[hockenbery]

Blank prep was good.

I leave the wood in this stage.
Seal the endgrain. There will be some end checking that gets cut off making the round.

I try to turn rounds right after band sawing them.

 

[Greg Carles]

I try to turn rounds right after band sawing them.

This is where the ( I don't know what I am doing ) comes in.
At this point I don't know how to turn them without some formal instruction, which is coming this weekend.
Hope it isn't to late...
So I guess I am prepping them to far?? should not cut round until just before turning.. OK got it.. Will correct this next time.
Do you think I ruined them by cutting them round too soon?
Thanks for commenting.

 

[Greg Carles]

That looks to light for black walnut and the bark doesn't look right.

Sorry about that. I changed the title to just Walnut.

Amateur mistake....

 

[Richard Coers]

I love it when someone guesses butternut. I've cut my own blanks for 35 years and have yet to see a butternut. Might be plentiful in your region, but incredibly rare around Peoria, IL. Looks like walnut to me. Has the purple and dark streaks. Never seen any kind of streaks in butternut, usually very even color.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

That double pith means either a crotch or two limns grew together and this cut is past the crotch. Makes for a flame or feather which is very beautiful.

 

[Kevin Jenness]

After cutting some of the blanks had hidden knots that were not on the outside of the round but burried deep into the log, you can see on the pic that there are some small knots? The outside was perfectly clean with no limbs - So where did they come from??? And will it be a problem when I go to turn them???

The knots are branches that broke off or died and the subsequent growth was clear. Sometimes you can see "cateyes" in the bark that indicate subsurface knots. There will be some squirrely grain around the knots that may be a feature and may tear out depending on technique and tool sharpness.

I don't rough out bowl blanks until I am ready to use them. Given the size of yours they should be ok if you get at them soon. Safer to cut the log length back to eliminate end checks, rip either side of the pith and seal the ends. Keep them in the shade with little air movement.

 

[Greg Carles]

Here is the picture of the 13 blanks I got for bowls and also a few spindle blank's as a bonus.
I am going to ask my instructor if it is OK to turn these into rough bowl blanks on Sunday, which is the day I have class.
I might take one with me just in case he wants to help show me on one of my own blanks.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Here is the picture of the 13 blanks I got for bowls and also a few spindle blank's as a bonus.
I am going to ask my instructor if it is OK to turn these into rough bowl blanks on Sunday, which is the day I have class.
I might take one with me just in case he wants to help show me on one of my own blanks.

Yes you have some nice pieces of Black Walnut Greg, sealing the engrain would be a good idea to keep checking at bay.

The thought that it could be Butternut is wrong, Butternut does not look like this at all, both bark and the wood itself is quite different, there was quite a bit of Butternut around, but most was affected with a cancer and died.

It is rare now and wild grown Butternut is a protected species now in Canada, I did turn some pieces from a tree that got removed for street widening in London Ontario, a couple pic's to show what the younger bark looks like (quite white color) and the wood.

Have fun working with your new wood pieces

 

[Greg Carles]

Leo,
Those are some really fantastic looking bowls, nicely done!!
Thanks for your input, I truly appreciate it.

 

[Dave Landers]

Do you think I ruined them by cutting them round too soon?

Not at all. You might get some checking in these blanks, but just cut it away and you end up with a bit smaller bowl. If you loose a blank or two, you still have what you paid for (firewood).

We generally would prefer to store wood in lengths as long as possible/practical. Wood is going to crack, and so more wood means you have some to cut away to remove the cracks. But sometimes you can't help it (because you started with firewood lengths, or a piece was too heavy to lift, or you have storage limitations, etc).

 

[Aaron Harris]

Nice save and great job prepping and sealing the blanks. I have turned (and have now) a number of blanks nearly identical to those. Walnut is gorgeous wood IMO, though in its green stage is super fibrous, and will definitely force you to up your tool-sharpening game (which is a good thing!). Especially if you rough-turn them green, you will also need to be meticulous about blowing it out of your machinery, and scrubbing your drives, lathe ways, chuck parts and tools with steel wool soaked in mineral spirits (a good practice after any serious turning session, really). Those tannins will rust even stainless steel if left in place, and cast iron much more quickly. My experience is that it dries pretty quickly after the rough turn, maybe because of its open grain?

 

[Greg Carles]

We generally would prefer to store wood in lengths as long as possible/practical. Wood is going to crack

Thank you , I appreciate the information. Next time I will leave in full lengths and only cut round when I am ready to turn..

 

[Marc Banka]

A few thoughts, Greg.

You’re taking your first class. Don’t expect too much to happen. I can’t imagine even getting into these kinds of bowls being taught, yet. Certainly thinking of roughing multiple bowls in a weekend is, wishful thinking. A goal, no doubt.

so, you will be dealing with this lovely wood drying too quickly. Checks, cracks and all that.

If it were me, at this stage, and is my standard. Wrap them tightly in shrink wrap, or plastic bags. Shrink wrap is best. Then keep them out of the sun. This will keep the moisture content as is, so you will have nice soft fibers to cut when you are able to rough turn. Learning on moist, green wood is best, imo.

If you leave it wrapped for long, it may develop some growths- fungus and such. Not a big deal since you will be using breathing protection when you turn. And really, it mostly brushes off.

 

[robo hippy]

For short term storage, what you have done will work well. I don't like the mess of the sealers, so most of the time will just use the stretch film, which does the same thing. I do make sure it wraps over the edges of the blank. This is good for most woods for a month or up to a year, depending on the wood.

I have only gotten pieces from one butter nut tree, also called white walnut. It was storm damaged, and had to be removed. At the time, it was 'co holder' of the record for being the largest butternut in N. America. Loved it. The grain in the branches was not circular, but scalloped so it looked kind of like a spider web. I later read that this is common for the butternut tree. Wish I could get a seedling to plant on my property!

robo hippy

 

[Mike Johnson]

Visit a firewood processor and you can usually find plenty of good pieces for spindle work that is already dried. I have also found some
good sized crotch pieces that they don't want to mess with when processing firewood.

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

The thought that it could be Butternut is wrong, Butternut does not look like this at all, both bark and the wood itself is quite different, there was quite a bit of Butternut around, but most was affected with a cancer and died.

While it is true that the photos of the bowl blanks are obviously black walnut the pictures at the start of this thread look more like white walnut in both the color tone and the bark.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

While it is true that the photos of the bowl blanks are obviously black walnut the pictures at the start of this thread look more like white walnut in both the color tone and the bark.

Maybe to you, not to me at all, it was obvious to me that it was Black Walnut and not Carpathian or Butternut, I have enough experience with all of these species to be able to ID them from a good picture or from wood logs at the tree dump.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

For short term storage, what you have done will work well. I don't like the mess of the sealers, so most of the time will just use the stretch film, which does the same thing. I do make sure it wraps over the edges of the blank. This is good for most woods for a month or up to a year, depending on the wood.

I have only gotten pieces from one butter nut tree, also called white walnut. It was storm damaged, and had to be removed. At the time, it was 'co holder' of the record for being the largest butternut in N. America. Loved it. The grain in the branches was not circular, but scalloped so it looked kind of like a spider web. I later read that this is common for the butternut tree. Wish I could get a seedling to plant on my property!

robo hippy

Reed all you need is some nut from a Butternut tree, I have successfully started trees from some Butternut.

If you go and buy a seedling you have to watch it that it is not a hybrid, a lot of those seedlings are crosses with Japanese Walnut. as these produce more nuts and so planted for that reason.

About the scalloped look of the wood that is to see in the second picture I showed, Hickory has that all at times.

Got a picture of a Hickory bowl that shows the wavy grain.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Maybe to you, not to me at all, it was obvious to me that it was Black Walnut and not Carpathian or Butternut, I have enough experience with all of these species to be able to ID them from a good picture or from wood logs at the tree dump.

I'm with Leo.. matter of fact I have a hefty pile of black walnut still to work through, and had a Butternut tree growing out back of the garage til a few years ago (it was cut up for firewood) The butternut, which was rather mature (it was a sapling the year I was born on that same property) looked much like Leo's example (post #13) - All of my black walnut varies depending on what part of the tree it came from - The very little bit of trunk section (off-cut from the tree being cut down and slabbed) was much like "most" folks might expect black walnut to look like , but the higher branches (some branches as thick as 16 inch diameter) look more like the original post.. The sapwood on the smaller stuff is almost a pure white (when it is green) and the branches are more sapwood than heartwood - The ones I have cut in half and took inside (but not yet turned) have started to darken the sapwood quite a bit more than when they were fresh cut.. Some sections of heartwood are almost yellow , some have a purple-ish sheen - Walnut can be a very colorful wood when taken green, and far different than any typical walnut you might buy from a vendor or bowl blank seller (many of them will steam the walnut to darken the sapwood to blend the "black" out further)

If interested, I can get some photos of my pile , some of the slices, and a couple of finished bowls and a natural edge one I did that havent sold yet at the farmer's markets.. (one of them actually I managed to get to feature some nice curl in the grain..) .. Oh yeah I believe I have a couple in my drying bin for twice-turning...

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

Maybe to you, not to me at all, it was obvious to me that it was Black Walnut and not Carpathian or Butternut, I have enough experience with all of these species to be able to ID them from a good picture or from wood logs at the tree dump.

Did you even look at the first pictures? I too have long experience with walnut and butternut and it is easy to see that the first pictures are not the same species as the later photos of bowl blanks.

This is butternut and it is plain to see that the color is different than the bowel blank picture and more like the lead post pictures. The bark on butternut from my experience going back to my childhood home with the butternut tree in the front yard is distinctly different then black walnut so based on the lead post pictures I saw is probably butternut.

 

[Greg Carles]

Did you even look at the first pictures? I too have long experience with walnut and butternut and it is easy to see that the first pictures are not the same species as the later photos of bowl blanks.

The bowl blanks came from the same log in the first picture. The log had dried some and checked, when I cut the ends off to get rid of the checking it got rid of the "light brown" end caps.
So as to your comment of the bowl blanks in the later photos not being from the same spieces: that is an assumption and is wrong. I got them all from the same logs that were all delivered togehter in the same load of firewood.
Not doing any trick photo shop ,if you are insinuating.
Here is the end cap that had checking and is light brown, the next pic is the same piece on the other side.
I hope this helps clear things up for you.

 

[Brian Gustin]

While it is true that the photos of the bowl blanks are obviously black walnut the pictures at the start of this thread look more like white walnut in both the color tone and the bark.

Here's some photos of Black Walnut (among other things) in my wood pile. As Greg noted already, wood colors can change from weathering/ sun exposure, etc...

Pic 1 - is my bulk woodpile in foreground - all Black Walnut (I know, we harvested the nuts off that tree when it was live) - Second picture, is my smaller offcuts pile (the stuff I plan to cut up and turn next once I run out of blanks in the shop) third picture - center slabs and halved branch wood from the same walnut tree, and last pic - some of my roughed bowl blanks in process of drying 4 in the foreground are black walnut from the same tree. As you can see - the long logs (which have sat out in the weather for the last 10 months) are quite weathered and except for the bark (and the two "saddle chunks" I cut to roll logs onto for cutting) you'd be hard pressed to tell it is walnut...

 

[Greg Carles]

Hi Brian,you did a good job on those and looks like you have planned ahead too. I hope to get mine turned soon.
Now when those rough turned walnut bowls dry are you going to turn again I assume?

Also what moisture are you aiming for to re-turn them?
Thanks

 

[Brian Gustin]

Hi Brian,you did a good job on those and looks like you have planned ahead too. I hope to get mine turned soon.
Now when those rough turned walnut bowls dry are you going to turn again I assume?

Yup. Generally what most of us turners refer to as "Twice Turned" , usually results in a more stable final product that tends to stay more round and not warp... First time I have tried twice-turning a natural edge bowl, too, so those 2 are basically experiments..

Also what moisture are you aiming for to re-turn them?
Thanks

I weigh them in Grams soon as I take em off the lathe, write weight & date on the bottom, wrap in brown paper (or paper bag) and toss 'em in a box at back of the shop.. after a few months, unwrap them and weigh again, note the weight, and then let them sit unwrapped for a few weeks more, and then weigh again every so often, until the weight in grams does not change (or it might increase & then decrease by a gram or two, meaning it is matching ambient moisture content) - That'll be when it is relatively stable and ready for final turning. after that (and choice of finish) they tend to have very little remaining movement to them.

 

[Greg Carles]

Well I finally had my Intro to bowl turning class this past Sunday. Wow I feel so over whelmed with all the information. I was able to turn one of my very own walnut bowl blanks in the pictures above. It was my first "green" bowl turning. My instructor was so patient with me, he had me once turn a green bowl and then second turn a bowl he brought into class from home, that had been drying for some time, and let me keep it ( walnut of course). I put 3 burn lines around the rim. What an experience, I have so much respect for you all that are pros at this, if you are really good at this it must be so rewarding.
I learned the cuts such as roughing out the bottom, shear cut, push cut, pull cut, and shear scraping, I used a bowl scraper on the bottom to get a little experience.
We learned to put on a tenon for the chuck and then how to remove it once the bowl is done. I learned how to sand using a drill with a 2 inch sanding disc. Man that really saves some time.
I am going to attach pictures of the 2 bowls I did and let them be critiqued. I have alot of blanks I need to get turned so they can dry and I can second turn in the future.
The green bowl turned fairly ease and the second turned one, well that was much more work and much finess was needed.
The green bowl is already warping and moving as the moisture is going and is has not been sanded yet so looks rough.

 

[Greg Carles]

Second turned bowl

 

[Greg Carles]

More pics

 

[hockenbery]

The value of good instruction is evident!

Now turn a dozen more as soon as you can to solidify what you learned.
You are on your way!

 

[Michael Anderson]

That’s a nice haul! I just came upon a bunch of free Sweetgum, but I’d much rather it be Walnut haha.

Regarding your two bowls, since you offered them up for critique. The larger wider bowl is fantastic! I see a couple of sanding marks left to work out, but the form is really nice. I’m not a big fan of the other bowl though. I would have preferred if you continued the concave curve to the lip, ogee style, instead of bringing it back. As it is, it looks more like a hybrid of two bowls. Just my two cents.

EDIT: just overlooked that these are some of your first bowls. Excellent job!! Color me impressed!

 

[Lyle Jamieson]

I recieved some firewood and to my surprise it had some nice walnut rounds mixed in. I refuse to burn good walnut so I cut some up for bowl blanks today. I really have not turned a bowl yet but I am getting stocked up for when I learn how.
The Walnut is at 34% moisture (measured on a pin type meter) so I got them cut and put some anchor seal on the end grain and put them in the garage to start drying.
Due to cutting the pith out , some of the blanks are only 5 inches due to being limbs on the small size, and the biggest ones are around 9 inches.
Am I going about this the right way?
I am taking a class next week at WoodCraft called intro to bowl turining and will have a ton of quesitons for the instructor.

I am going to attach some pics for everyone to see of my process.
After cutting some of the blanks had hidden knots that were not on the outside of the round but burried deep into the log, you can see on the pic that there are some small knots? The outside was perfectly clean with no limbs - So where did they come from??? And will it be a problem when I go to turn them???
Using a circle cutting jig on my band saw I made short work out of cutting them up.
I was able to get 13 blanks that would have been burned as firewood.

Thanks for any comments.

Hi Greg - I enjoy turning green wood to finished product. I think it's easier, more fun, and I don't want cracks in my blank or finished pieces.

 

[Greg Carles]

Hi Greg - I enjoy turning green wood to finished product. I think it's easier, more fun, and I don't want cracks in my blank or finished pieces.

Hi Lyle,
Thanks for great your input. When I turned the "once turned" green bowl, I did not do a shearing cut to clean it up, not sure why but he was helping another student so he either did not want me to or he got distracted and forgot. Now the bowl in the picture is pretty rough due to that and when I cut the tenon off he said to wait until dry to sand it. The other thing about turning green wood is all the sanding and finishing has to be done off the lathe??
How much of a finished product are you talking about?
1. Do you sand it on the lathe?
2. Do you do a shear cut while green?
3. If you don't mind can you post a couple of pics of your bowls that were turned once?

 

[Greg Carles]

EDIT: just overlooked that these are some of your first bowls. Excellent job!! Color me impressed!

Yes - Michael, my first bowl ever. and to be honest this was not the shape I was going for but ended up with. I really appreciate your feedback.
Thanks,
Greg

 

[Michael Anderson]

Yes - Michael, my first bowl ever. and to be honest this was not the shape I was going for but ended up with. I really appreciate your feedback.
Thanks,
Greg

You're welcome. Sometimes that's the way it goes!

Answering a couple of questions that you asked Lyle (I'm certain his responses will be much better than mine):
1. The main problem that I have found with sanding green wood is that sandpaper particles can get embedded within the wood due to the green fibers being fairly open still. Once the fibers are dry, they contract considerably. This contraction (shrinking) can/will trap anything on the surface of the wood. Sandpaper particles, for example, will appear as tiny spots on the finished surface (almost like fine mold appears), and you will usually end up having to sand again anyways. That said, folks do sand green wood with success, but it's a bit more challenging (and should be done with the expectation that the surface will likely still wrinkle a bit when dry, for example with curly figure).
2. If you're once-turning bowls, you should definitely shear cut if your intention is a smooth surface. If you're going for a rough texture, or doing something post-lathe like sandblasting, wireburshing, etc... it's not as important thing to do. But shear scraping is an excellent way to get rid of tool marks, as well as make the sanding process easier/faster (and can help prevent oversanding)

 

[hockenbery]

The other thing about turning green wood is all the sanding and finishing has to be done off the lathe??
How much of a finished product are you talking about?
1. Do you sand it on the lathe?
2. Do you do a shear cut while green?

I usually sand off the lathe after the wood has dried.
I sometimes sand wet wood using Abranet. It is a mesh product. It clogs much less than sandpaper. When it does clog it can be cleaned by tapping it on the tool rest. Soaking in water first can loosen stubborn clogs.

I try shear scraping. Works well on most woods.
Some of the soft hardwoods and wood with twisty grain Don’t scrape well when wet and leave a fuzz. These I don’t shear scrape if the surface is getting worse instead off better.

 

[Dave Landers]

Green/wet wood is difficult to sand because the wet sawdust gunks up your sandpaper. Sometimes the surface dries just enough that you can sand, other times not.
You can leave the tenon/recess on the bowl to facilitate sanding later. But since the bowl will warp, you're not getting much benefit from the lathe except that it gives you a way to hold the bowl - the lathe can make an excellent holding vice/clamp.
There are a number of ways to hold a finished bowl on the lathe without a chuck/tenon (I expect you did this to finish the bowl bottoms - except you want something not-pointy in the tailstock).