Wood sealer convert

[John Hicks]

Ok; I have been experimenting with several different sealers over the last few years, and have come to the conclusion that for sealing green logs, titebond is the ticket. I just glob it on without thinning, with a vinyl glove. I do however still use a waxy sealer for twice turned bowls and vessels. Has anyone else converted to using glue for sealer?
Any pith cracks get a second coat. Not even the pith has continued to crack; When I used a expensive sealer, they would pretty much always crack if the pith was left in.

 

[robo hippy]

I do have one bowl blank that I cut, but didn't use stretch film around the edges, which can be good for weeks to a year or so. It developed a crack in the end grain on one side. I put a little water in the crack, then poured some titebond 3 on it, then wrapped it. I haven't sealed any logs, but may do that when I get some, hopefully in a month or so. I have used it on some spindles I made out of madrone, which is more prone to cracking than most woods. To date, none of them appear to have cracked. Have to see, eventually.

robo hippy

 

[Tim Connell]

I will use both depending on the circumstance. If I'm harvesting logs in the summer they get glue. Dries much quicker than anything else. If I'm cutting blanks to be stored for for future use they get "waxed". If I'm slabbing logs in the winter, they are waxed - glue freezes too easily.

I'd use glue exclusively, except for the fact that it hardens all the little bits of frayed grain on edges of cuts and turns them into weapons.

My shelves full of spindle blanks are only waxed. I handle and sort them often enough that if edges were glued I'd be leaving DNA on them every time I sorted through looking for a blank.

 

[Brian Nowak-Thompson]

I just went through a gallon of titrbond over the last year sealing about 300 blanks. I did thin it so that maybe a factor here, and I had mixed results. Cherry blanks split a lot, maple some, and walnut hardy any. I think it reflects more on the nature of the species. Oh, and I wrapped my shelves in a plastic tent to try a keep humidity up as things dried. My conclusion is to try a different approach like plastic wrap or better yet, cut and turn right away.

 

[John Walls]

I used straight/non-thinned titebond on a trailer load of maple, some ash, elm and a few walnut. None I have used it on have cracked but they are only about 1 yr cut. I have access to a bunch of red oak, will try it on those when the snow clears and I can get to it to cut it up. I've also tried latex paint, 2 coats, that was a waste of good wood. Cracked like crazy.

 

[GRJensen]

I use PVA drywall primer (about $10 a gallon at the home center) ... usually two coats.

 

[Kent Jaffrey]

I use PVA drywall primer (about $10 a gallon at the home center) ... usually two coats

I’ve wondered about this but don’t want white coating the wood as I like to see what I have to work with. Has anyone found clear drywall primer?

 

[Doug Freeman]

I switched to titebond glue a few years ago, applied without thinning, globbed on with a brush. Works better than the wax emulsion type Ive tried, and much better than latex paint. I do think melted paraffin wax works really well (based on how wet purchased blanks are) but would be a pita for logs.

Dont store a lot of blanks. The few spindle blanks I do I use titebond and lean them up against something to dry. Has worked well. I store glue end sealed log sections. I cut up a section of log at a time, store unturned blanks in a plastic trash bag until turned, anywhere from a day to weeks. All wet turnings go in paper bags for drying, no sealant applied.

 

[Russ Braun]

Ya’all using Titebond glue; just one step away from being Segmenters!! Step into the light, haha!!

 

[Karl Loeblein]

Mike Mahoney primarily seals wood with PVA glue now. Suggested I thin it down by 10 to 15% at a TAW Symposium last weekend.

 

[Doug Freeman]

Ya’all using Titebond glue; just one step away from being Segmenters!! Step into the light, haha!!

Been there done that, saw the light, it dimmed to about nothing after I started turning green wood, haha!!

 

[Tim Tucker]

I was at the TAW symposium this past weekend - and Mike Mahoney was one of the demonstrators. When asked, he said that he only uses PVA ( white/ Elmers type) glue thinned 10%. He seals the entire rough turn.

 

[Dean Center]

Drywall primer at $14 a gallon at Home Despot vs. white glue at Amazon--but which one? Amazon Basics "washable" white glue and other "school" glues are cheapest at $11-15. Does "washable" style work as well as regular? Is drywall primer the same, or slightly different? If drywall primer, which brand? Which of any of these works better? Need more data.

 

[Tim Tucker]

Dean -
I did not think about drywall primer being a PVA....but that makes sense that it would work. In fact - maybe better than good old white glue.
The glue is design for...just that - gluing things together. But the PVA based primer has flow additives, adhesion promoters, and surfactants that probably make it easier to work with, and provide a good seal. Will have to buy some and try it.
Good idea....

 

[John Hicks]

Using titebond II or III; I can store the wood up against my garage under the overhang. White glue (PVA glue), Id have to put it inside. Being I'm severely lacking in space in my two car garage; outside is the only option. Low humidity and hot summers cure green wood pretty quickly.

 

[GRJensen]

Drywall primer at $14 a gallon at Home Despot vs. white glue at Amazon--but which one? Amazon Basics "washable" white glue and other "school" glues are cheapest at $11-15. Does "washable" style work as well as regular? Is drywall primer the same, or slightly different? If drywall primer, which brand? Which of any of these works better? Need more data.

I don't think brand name matters as long as it is PVA. The stuff I buy (at Menards) is "Conco Pro® Step One® P001 Interior Water-Base White Drywall PVA Primer/Sealer" ... $11.47 a gallon today (prices have gone up).

 

[Brian Nowak-Thompson]

Mike Mahoney primarily seals wood with PVA glue now. Suggested I thin it down by 10 to 15% at a TAW Symposium last weekend.

I was doing about 50% and it seemed too thin. This makes more sense to try next time.

 

[Marvin Jones]

Good information all! I bought a couple cases of end grain sealer years ago and am working on the last gallon. Will have to give the Titebond II or III a try as my green blanks cure on shelves under roof but in the open air. Have to look for an economical supplier. Thanks for the question,,and all the answers!

 

[Marvin Jones]

I priced the Titebond 2 and checked the current price of the end grain sealer I like and the sealer has gone up so they are priced similar. I also was curious about finding a clear pva drywall primer. Kilz Klear is a clear drywall primer but it does not appear to be pva. SDS does not mention polyvinyl, may work though, more expensive than the titebond 2. It is also an interior exterior primer that says it works on wood, among other things.
Thinking I will try Titebond 2 at 18.99 at the big box stores, really like to see what the wood looks before starting. Those of you that have used it, does it dull your chisels like latex paint?

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

I think what Mike uses is plain Elmers glue. That is much cheaper than TB

 

[Marvin Jones]

Gerald, my blanks are stored outside though not subject to water like John's, our local humidity concerns me.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Gerald, my blanks are stored outside though not subject to water like John's, our local humidity concerns me.

Once the glue dries it is there , unless it it subjected to direct water. Covered outside should be ok with any pva glue type. Note any sealer can fail in direct Sun and wet conditions at least in my experience.

 

[John Hicks]

With the titebond (I use original) it only takes one good coat. I just smear it around with a vinyl glove; with the anchorseal type, it is two coats or it doesn't really work that well.

 

[Marvin Jones]

Because the anchorseal did not protect all of my bowls, I want to give the more expensive Titebond a try, thanks John. I never really felt the anchorseal dulled my chisels but early trials with latex paint seemed to. John, do you think the glue dulls yours?

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I have always tried to rough turn my new wood and dry it in my brown paper bags, however at times to do it all would take too long to not seal the logs first, and I use Anchor seal, it works fine, but only for a limited time, the logs will still split.


So I then used plastic bags to extend the time before I could turn the wood.
It works as well for me as the sealer.



Fo rough turned bowls I use as I said the brown paper bags, but gave the sealer a try one time, as I had turned a bunch of Applewood bowls, I took 5 of them and sealed them totally.
Stuffed all the rest in the paper bags, they all dried fine, but then I had 5 bowls with all that wax sealer on them, there's no upside for me using a sealer, were I then have to deal with that stuff.



So now I just rough turn the wood, like these spalted Apple bowls and dry them in the brown paper bags, works fine for me

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

I have always tried to rough turn my new wood and dry it in my brown paper bags, however at times to do it all would take too long to not seal the logs first, and I use Anchor seal, it works fine, but only for a limited time, the logs will still split.

Considering where you live you could easily store the new wood out side for at least 5 months.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Yes Don, I know that people do think that as it is cold, there isn't any drying, and that is not correct, point in case is that my son with 5 children dries his laundry in his unheated garage all year long, yes it take a bit longer but it goes fairly fast, the air's moisture is quite low in winter, more so than in the summer.

Now if I would bury the wood under the snow, there would be a considerable slowing of the drying, but my firewood dries pretty good in winter as well

 

[Don Wattenhofer]

Yes Don, I know that people do think that as it is cold, there isn't any drying, and that is not correct, point in case is that my son with 5 children dries his laundry in his unheated garage all year long, yes it take a bit longer but it goes fairly fast, the air's moisture is quite low in winter, more so than in the summer.

Now if I would bury the wood under the snow, there would be a considerable slowing of the drying, but my firewood dries pretty good in winter as well

Yes I am aware of that but it does slow down the drying more than anchor seal in a heated building and without the waxy mess. In October every year I lean fresh cut logs against the west wall of my shop and then try to use them before April. At this point in the winter nature has piled about 2 feet of snow around my stash.
The part about drying clothes outside is nothing new to me it is the way my mother did it in Nordeast Minneapolis in the 1950's.

 

[Dave Hulett]

Switched to PVA glue a couple years ago. It is much cheaper than anchor seal. and works great. I use titebond which I can get a lowes/home depot

 

[Marvin Jones]

Interesting note, the picture below shows the last gallon of anchorseal out of some I bought years ago from Highland Hardware (may just be an old label), which is Highland Woodworking now (notice price). I checked their website and they sell a gallon now for $27.99 and also sell a 55 gallon drum for $549.99, gallon price is $9.99. My can's only label is stuck on the lid and the gallon they sell is also labelled the same way, which suggests to me they may still batch out their gallons from drums. Be nice if enough members went together to buy a drum and divided it, only problem I can see is shipping unless you live close to Atlanta...shipping here would probably cost $549.99 which puts the cost back to $20.00...

 

[Bernie Kopfer]

I have used Craft Supply’s pva type green wood sealer with very good results. Bit expensive so will switch to slightly thinned Titebond in the future. But in following this discussion I am wondering if we are talking about two different things. For green wood first turned bowls coating them with pva glue has worked well. But I wonder what works best for fresh logs that will be stored outside. I live in central Washington where the summers are dry and hot and I need to preserve the logs that are stored outside. Does coating the ends of freshly cut logs keep them from cracking?

 

[Doug Freeman]

I do not coat rough turnings (heavy grocery bags), but seal the ends of logs with titebond. No it does not prevent cracking but reduces it substantially. I try to cut logs a min of 1-1/2 x dia to leave enough to cut off the cracks. The longer length you can leave a log the better, and only cut off what you will turn in the next few days. I keep blanks in a plastic bag until turned. They keep for a couple weeks or more, and some mold can begin, but minimal IME. Reseal the end of the log.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I have been doing the same as Doug, freshly turned bowls go into the Brown Paper Bag, the logs I did seal with anchor seal, but changed to using to wrapping a plastic bag around the ends, just pull the bag tight around and use a piece of masking tape to keep it like that, it worked at least as good as the wax sealing.

And yes keep the logs as long as you can handle, any splitting if that occurs is on the ends, so where spitting occurs short on each end, it will be more times than on a long log, less waste that way.

And the plastic bags can be used over and over again.

 

[robo hippy]

For a frugal turner, one method I heard of should work well. Slap a bunch of old laytex paint on the end of the log, than slap some plastic onto the wet paint, which will hold the plastic in place. That would make a good seal. Keep any log out of direct light and wind, even keeping it away from the sunny side of the house, even if the logs are covered by tarps. Tarps on top and bottom, and weights around the edges to keep any wind out. You will still get some cracking, but this will reduce it.

robo hippy

 

[Bernie Kopfer]

Thank you for your replies, I apologize for sorta hijacking the thread. In the fall of 2020 I obtained a nice collection of fresh cut Ash and Maple logs. I managed to get them coated with Anchorseal before winter, but ended up with a destroyed right shoulder (another story). In Feb 2021 I had a reverse shoulder replacement and was finally late in the year able to get to the logs. They had been laying outside off the ground for a year with only a bit of shade protection but otherwise exposed to the elements including a couple of weeks of record heat. 110 plus. The Ash had cracked severely to the point that I was only able to salvage a few chunks, but the maple held up much better, and even did some nice natural spalting, but still lots of deep cracks. Lesson learned, don't wait a year to turn. Hopefully won't have to go thru that again but would like to find ways to protect if possible wood that I cannot get to in a timely fashion.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

For a frugal turner, one method I heard of should work well. Slap a bunch of old laytex paint on the end of the log, than slap some plastic onto the wet paint, which will hold the plastic in place. That would make a good seal. Keep any log out of direct light and wind, even keeping it away from the sunny side of the house, even if the logs are covered by tarps. Tarps on top and bottom, and weights around the edges to keep any wind out. You will still get some cracking, but this will reduce it.

robo hippy

Why bother with the paint, the plastic bag works just as well if wrapped tight and held with some masking tape, and yes logs will split after a while no matter what you do to them.

Cool and out of wind and sun is the requirement as you say Reed

 

[Dean Center]

Cool and out of wind and sun is the requirement as you say Reed View attachment 43207

"cool and out of the wind" doesn't exist outside in central Washington in the summer. Bernie would have to choose between putting the logs in his refrigerator or floating them down the Columbia to Astoria.

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

"cool and out of the wind" doesn't exist outside in central Washington in the summer. Bernie would have to choose between putting the logs in his refrigerator or floating them down the Columbia to Astoria.

Maybe better inside his airconditioned shop ??, but yes you do the best you can, and if you are forced to keep the logs outside, you might have to shade them for heat or snow, depending where you live and time of year

 

[John A Landis]

With the titebond (I use original) it only takes one good coat. I just smear it around with a vinyl glove; with the anchorseal type, it is two coats or it doesn't really work that well.

In my experience, Anchorseal 2 takes two coats, but the original Anchorseal, if you can find it, only takes one. My club bought a 55 gallon drum of the original direct from the manufacturer, and provided it to members for $10/gallon

 

[Jim Woods]

I am glad I saw the idea of Titebond for end sealing. I got 6 7' x 20" cherry logs from the tree trimmers Tue for a couple little bowls. After cutting into 24 - 36" logs, I used about 1/3 gal (lightly thinned with water) certainly looks better than latex paint.