wood sink bowl

[Bigrhackler]

hi all------ i want to turn a wooden sink bowl for my bathroom remodel....is there any wood that would serve for this pourpose better ? And what kind of finish would be the most dourable for the wood sink bowl? thanks Ron

 

[TurningDog]

I have made two of these over the years for a contractor friend. He did all the finishes on thembut as I understand it the were finished with marine grade epoxy. One bowl was laminated teak (a PIA) the other white oak.

 

[Brian Hahn]

I second the idea of marine-grade epoxy. Waterproof is very important if you want the sink to survive. Unfortunately marine-grade expoxy, at least the stuff I've used, isn't very scratch resistant, so you'll probably want to top-coat it with a marine grade varnish. There's some compatibility issues in doing that, so you'll need to do a little research. I believe that System Three has a top-coat that's compatible with their epoxies. The other manufacturers of marine-grade epoxy (like System West) probably have similar products, but I haven't checked them out.

 

[DeanGThomas]

A thought ran through my mind, but did not bother to stop...

Would lignum vitae work? Or would that be an even greater PITA than teak?

Not suggesting, only asking.

 

[PapaDoc]

This is a great thread. Some of you guys with a lot of experience, please chime in. I have had two people ask but referred them as I wasn't sure.

 

[Ken Grunke]

The Romans ( think) used Elm for water pipes, although that's somewhat immaterial for something coated with epoxy finish. Anyway, it seems like a good wood for a sink to me.

 

[TurningDog]

Would lignum vitae work?

it should. There were many problems withteak sink. The PITA part of the teak for me was grain alignment in the glue up. The end customer was also a pain in the .. he would show up every day to look in on his project and was never happy. He was never happy mostly because he was an unmittigated and had no understanding of the process. When he finally wanted to know why i did a glue up on it I showed him the price I would have to charge him for a solid 20" teak sink that was 6" deep in the middle and told him that it would mostly likely crack and that there would be no refund on it. It took filling my shop with noxious fumes every day and not providing him with any kind of breathing mask to get him to stop showing up. oh how I wished I was good at sending pieces off the lathe with a specific flight path, he would stand there and watch glue dry too and want to know why I could glue more ppieces at a time.

 

[MichaelMouse]

The Romans ( think) used Elm for water pipes, although that's somewhat immaterial for something coated with epoxy finish. Anyway, it seems like a good wood for a sink to me.

Lots of people used wood for water pipes and pilings, where the wood was to be continuously wet in an anerobic environment. Lasts almost forever. Town north of here replaced its elm piping just three years ago. It wasn't the elm that had failed, but the ceramic which formed some of the extensions to the original system and repaired some cuts!

Had a woman ask me about such a sink just yesterday, and I deferred. She said a friend had one made of Iroko. From the looks of her and her husband, there was a lot of money available, but I wouldn't want the grief of chasing down the finishing technology.

 

[Ron Sardo]

Lots of people used wood for water pipes and pilings, where the wood was to be continuously wet in an anerobic environment. Lasts almost forever. Town north of here replaced its elm piping just three years ago. It wasn't the elm that had failed, but the ceramic which formed some of the extensions to the original system and repaired some cuts!

Had a woman ask me about such a sink just yesterday, and I deferred. She said a friend had one made of Iroko. From the looks of her and her husband, there was a lot of money available, but I wouldn't want the grief of chasing down the finishing technology.

There is also a town near me the had white oak water pipes that was removed last year. Same problem, ceramic couplers failed, not the wood.

BTW, Iroko is also called african maghogany.

 

[PapaDoc]

Thanks for the iroko clarification. My guitar, a fabulous Gallagher Doc Watson model, has African mahogeny as the body wood. Very sweet and warm. Iroko seems to be in need of a song!

 

[Ron Sardo]

Sorry Pappa Doc, I blew it

Iroko is african teak
Khaya is african mahogany

I didn't have my second cup of coffee yet

 

[Mark Mandell]

Done a fair amount of research on this because I was considering doing wood sinks in the new master bath. Went to a couple of high-end fixture showrooms (aka Domestic K&B Design studios) and checked out what they had to offer. Prices were in stratosphere for plain-jane butcherblock laminations touted to have "17 coats of epoxy" applied. My estimate is that those coatings will last about 3 years before they crack around the drain from the mounting stress. Then the whole deal will go to hell pretty quick and $8,000 will be firewood.

"Wait! Stop! Did he say $8,000?"

Yes indeedy, Campers, 8 large for a wood sink. Interesting that I spoke to one guy who wouldn't carry them; too many call-backs and repairs. The only way he'd sell them was "no warranty, buyer's risk."

I did find some for less money. Anyone interested can follow this link http://www.sinksgallery.com/HomePage.aspx

I've also looked at several installations using wood for sinks; some turned, some "built." While the users I spoke to were generally in favor of the wood, I was not impressed on how they stood up to use. When dry, they looked like **** after a few years in service.

Think this is a must for stabilized wood, but nobody does resin stabilization of stock big enough, and the process is pretty expensive.

Haven't discarded the idea as a turned product, but I know they're not for my home.

mm

 

[TurningDog]

"Wait! Stop! Did he say $8,000?"

only $8k someone is selling the sink cheap or it is awfully small. When I said the guy shut up when I mentioned the price of a solid teak 20x6 sink I wasn't kidding the price I quoted him was $35,000 and that still was unfinished Pete would have charged him another $5 to $10k. As it was the oak one which was just an 8x8 cone with the bottom chopped and a separate turned cylinder to hide the drain hardware was $7500. I do believe I said these weren't cheap. Those 17 coats of epoxy should have included the entire drain hole or should have there should have also been a plastic plug epoxied into the hole so it could have been drilled to sizewithout the hardware ever touching the turned edge. These are not sinks that are supposed to get regular use. THey are suppose to look pretty most of the time but still work on occassion. That $8k sink should have lasted with proper maintenece and little use 20 or 30 years. The problem is few are going to do the proper maintenence or give it the limited use it requires. Frankly using a handcrafted wooden sink for daily use is like taking a bently off roading every day.

Another way to go for a wooden sink is to make a wooden turned trough sink. I know of a few high end buyers who have them in their sauna & hot tub rooms. You need a sizeable lathe and bandsaw for this, which is why I did't take the job at the time. Turn your log to cylinter cut off the end. hollow out the remaining piece. Glue the end back on. Cut it down the middle with the BS and you have two trough sinks. which usually fiberglassed on the inside.

 

[pyrocasto]

only $8k someone is selling the sink cheap or it is awfully small. When I said the guy shut up when I mentioned the price of a solid teak 20x6 sink I wasn't kidding the price I quoted him was $35,000 and that still was unfinished Pete would have charged him another $5 to $10k. As it was the oak one which was just an 8x8 cone with the bottom chopped and a separate turned cylinder to hide the drain hardware was $7500. I do believe I said these weren't cheap. Those 17 coats of epoxy should have included the entire drain hole or should have there should have also been a plastic plug epoxied into the hole so it could have been drilled to sizewithout the hardware ever touching the turned edge. These are not sinks that are supposed to get regular use. THey are suppose to look pretty most of the time but still work on occassion. That $8k sink should have lasted with proper maintenece and little use 20 or 30 years. The problem is few are going to do the proper maintenence or give it the limited use it requires. Frankly using a handcrafted wooden sink for daily use is like taking a bently off roading every day.

Another way to go for a wooden sink is to make a wooden turned trough sink. I know of a few high end buyers who have them in their sauna & hot tub rooms. You need a sizeable lathe and bandsaw for this, which is why I did't take the job at the time. Turn your log to cylinter cut off the end. hollow out the remaining piece. Glue the end back on. Cut it down the middle with the BS and you have two trough sinks. which usually fiberglassed on the inside.

I dont see why they should get such a high price. Correct me if I'm wrong here: You turn a bowl to the size they want, coat it a lot with epoxy, then have someone hook up the drain stuff to it.

Now why doesnt that sound like even twice the work of a normal bowl, yet they get charged $35k?

Hell we do high end custom cabinetry and we could do the whole bathroom for that price. Hope I'm missing something.

 

[TurningDog]

Now why doesnt that sound like even twice the work of a normal bowl, yet they get charged $35k?

Hell we do high end custom cabinetry and we could do the whole bathroom for that price. Hope I'm missing something.

Sure I could go grab any thing off my woodpile and whip out a solid bowl sink but it would never last without spending lots of time and money on it. First you are looking at a huge piece of teak, the only piece I have ever seen that was close to that size the price was $3500 green, big turnable teak isn't easy to find and huge is next to imposible. Then you are looking at having it stabelized. Turning it so it isn't going to warp, hold water, and still be astecily pleasing has its own problems. Dealing with assh*le clients adds greatly to the price. Finding someone who is willing to take this kind of work is near impossible. Then there is the fact I am never cheap.

But in the end ask yourself how much more you charge for custom built cabinets than you do premade models. I am guessing it is 3 to 5 times. The same goes with this sink. $8k is the price you pay for a cnc machined ready made wooden sink.

 

[Mark Mandell]

Hey Dog, better check out the wood stuff at the link I posted. Your gettin' your price list trashed. Big Time!!

They're putting out both kitchen and bath stuff that is anything BUT "occasional use" fixtures.

Anybody know a Texas turner by the name of Peter Garrett listed on the link site?

I'd like to know how they're stabilizing the turning stock. I would think to get anything like real durability you'd need to take down to oven dry MC and then pressure infuse the epoxy to obtain a true uniform composite material. Surface coating, regardless of how thick, will not, as far as I know, last for long with real use.

mm

 

[TurningDog]

Hey Dog, better check out the wood stuff at the link I posted. Your gettin' your price list trashed. Big Time!!

They're putting out both kitchen and bath stuff that is anything BUT "occasional use" fixtures.

Anybody know a Texas turner by the name of Peter Garrett listed on the link site?

I'd like to know how they're stabilizing the turning stock. I would think to get anything like real durability you'd need to take down to oven dry MC and then pressure infuse the epoxy to obtain a true uniform composite material. Surface coating, regardless of how thick, will not, as far as I know, last for long with real use.

mm

They are incredibly under priced, $8k for a ready made wooden sink is not uncommon. I never have heard of him and no web listing. Since these sinks are ready for shipping and I am guessing have multiples of them he was paid next to nothing for them, maybe 10% of the listed price.

Their stabelising method is simply use kiln dried wood and varnish, this is why they only guarantee their sink for 10 years. I on the other hand sent out the white oak piece to have it high pressure resin impregnated for stabelizing. Custom work like that is not cheap. I am more than happy to pass that on to my customers. If you want to find someone to do it for you check marine suppliers and boat builders. My 8x8 piece was $450 to have done, which was the cheapest I could find of course I could have done a much bigger piece for roughly the same money. Set up ran $375 and could have done a piece 12"x12"x12'

 

[Mark Mandell]

12x . . .

There's the rub; way too small. For bathroom vessel bowls you need at least 16x16x8 and preferably 20x as turning stock. I contacted several of the pen-blank guys, but their limit was 9" in any dimension.

mm

 

[TurningDog]

12x . . .

There's the rub; way too small. For bathroom vessel bowls you need at least 16x16x8 and preferably 20x as turning stock. I contacted several of the pen-blank guys, but their limit was 9" in any dimension.

mm

You can get bigger done, but your set up costs will be a lot more. There were two boat builders I found that can do up 36"x18' with varaible hieghts, resin penetration was only up to 3", but the minimum cost was $1000. This is why it is best to go with laminated pieces, it is much cheaper.

 

[Mark Mandell]

resin penetration was only up to 3", but the minimum cost was $1000.

You may be playing my song. If I turn to 2-1/2" thickness, I can do 22" bowls green, then dry, then re-turn to 1-1/2", then have treated, and final turn to 1" or less and go from there.

Care to pass on the info on the people you deal(t) with?

mm

 

[TurningDog]

You may be playing my song. If I turn to 2-1/2" thickness, I can do 22" bowls green, then dry, then re-turn to 1-1/2", then have treated, and final turn to 1" or less and go from there.

Care to pass on the info on the people you deal(t) with?

mm

the oak bowl was done by was done by was done by James River Marine, I will have to look for their addy, but i found the online originally. The big ones I am pretty sure I didn't keep their addy when I found out how much they cost. I found them by going through online yellow pages in big towns on the great lakes. One of them was in chicago, i do remember I believe it was called michigan watercraft.

one thing the big guys warned me about was under ressure it could collapse a hollow vessel and they were not responsible for it.

Also note that my prices are some what out of date, as I did these sinks 5 years ago.

 

[pyrocasto]

Sure I could go grab any thing off my woodpile and whip out a solid bowl sink but it would never last without spending lots of time and money on it. First you are looking at a huge piece of teak, the only piece I have ever seen that was close to that size the price was $3500 green, big turnable teak isn't easy to find and huge is next to imposible. Then you are looking at having it stabelized. Turning it so it isn't going to warp, hold water, and still be astecily pleasing has its own problems. Dealing with assh*le clients adds greatly to the price. Finding someone who is willing to take this kind of work is near impossible. Then there is the fact I am never cheap.

But in the end ask yourself how much more you charge for custom built cabinets than you do premade models. I am guessing it is 3 to 5 times. The same goes with this sink. $8k is the price you pay for a cnc machined ready made wooden sink.

I guess that's a few things I didnt think about. I didnt know a CNCed bowl would go for $8k, as we dont do those.I imagine with most any wood getting it stablized would be the hardest part, as I dont think you can boil/soap and kiln dry a 18" chunk of wood.

 

[TurningDog]

I guess that's a few things I didnt think about. I didnt know a CNCed bowl would go for $8k, as we dont do those.I imagine with most any wood getting it stablized would be the hardest part, as I dont think you can boil/soap and kiln dry a 18" chunk of wood.

Sure you can boil/soap or kiln dry hunks that big. Right now I have plenty of chucks in a solar shed kiln much larger than that. It takes forever to dry huge solid chunks, in a kiln but it is possible. I have ambrosia maple that is as large as 24x24x36 that even after 3 years in the kiln aren't what I would call completely dry.

 

[pyrocasto]

Already have an order for that piece, or do what are you going to make?

 

[TurningDog]

Already have an order for that piece, or do what are you going to make?

All of those pieces are mine or already sold, hopefully I will have the lathe to do them justice by the time they dry. I have all the tools for hollows that big but my vic vl300 had to be put on hold since surgery. I sell most of my big kiln dried pieces to two other locals almost as quickly as I cut and load it in there. Hopefully I will be able to set up a second kiln next year and take a few more regular buyers.

 

[mkart]

large size wood stabilization

Mark,
I have info somewhere at home for a company who could stabilize a 20" roughout. I spoke with them at the Atlanta IWF show in 2004. I will look for it this evening.
Matt

 

[Mark Mandell]

Mark,
I have info somewhere at home for a company who could stabilize a 20" roughout. I spoke with them at the Atlanta IWF show in 2004. I will look for it this evening.
Matt

Thanks, that would be very nice to know.