Would you be willing to share your “how”?

[John Ames]

In the other thread regarding making money woodturning, Donna offered a very astute observation:

“The wood art side is entirely different. You need to find a niche, that isn't anything close to what others are making. Something that most have never seen before.”

I have no doubt this is true. My question is: If you came up with a new woodturning concept that was highly original and invented by your own creativity, would you be willing to share your “secret formula?”

Some woodturners share their knowledge of techniques openly… Others want to keep their cards secret…. If Donna teaches step by step how to do her marvelous painting/embellishing or John Beaver gives his recipe for creating those curves, could that possibly “devalue” their work if other people can then reproduce it? (Even if the follower’s attempts will never be as good as the original.) Is there any concern that a bunch of “wannabe” clones could come along and try to sell similar works?

Having experts share their techniques is incredibly important for all of us, but how important is it for great woodturners to keep at least some of their “creative secrets” to themselves?

Is there a consensus within the community on this? Thanks for any thoughts on the matter…

 

[Kirk Amidon]

One of the things that I've found is that there seem to be no secrets in the turning community. More so than in any other hobby or endeavor I've participated in, to a fault. Everyone, whether here or in a local club, is willing to show you how they do something. Sometimes, they charge for that knowledge, but I've not yet encountered a situation where ANYONE has been told "no". An amazing group of people, woodturners.

 

[William Rogers]

I have only run into one woodturner (non-famous) who didn’t want to share. All other wood turners are as Kirk stated, willing to help. It’s one think to know how to do something, but a whole lot different to execute.

 

[Donna Banfield]

I have also only run into one turner who always kept one or two essential things out of the demonstrations, which prevented a successful copy being made.

I agree with most of the others, that generally the woodturning community is a generous group. I've been teaching and demonstrating since turning2007; teaching and demonstrating my artwork since 2015. And I don't hold anything back.

What I have found in my students are two groups; about 90% of them, after taking a workshop, realize that it will take them a year longer than forever to learn the skills and techniques I use, and accept that they don't want to spend that time. They're the 'one and done' group. About 10% are really interested, and will invest in the tools and equipment, and make the effort. But as most woodturners are drawn to the lathe for the immediacy of making something from start to finish, in about an hour, many of those see their interest wane after a few months. And then there are a few handfuls that will put in the time to perfect their skills. And I really want to see them succeed. If and when they do, I hope that they take what I have shown them, and go much further than I. And I will take pride in knowing that I played a small role in in their development of the talented artist they became.

 

[Jim Reynolds]

I second what Donna said. I admire the honesty of students who properly acknowledge the shoulders upon which they stand.

 

[Daniel Henry]

This is the biggest 'thing' that brought me to woodturning. I literally grew up and old in carpenter/cabinet trade. Certainly many if not most of those guys were unwilling to share. And given the opportunity many would be most critical of a competitor.
My biggest regret is the length of time it took me to find this place.

 

[Rick Urban]

John,

Demonstrators can be magicians, wanting you to be amazed; salespeople, wanting you to buy their invention; or teachers, wanting to help you go where you can. I see most in the last category.

A couple of related thoughts...

1. Over the years I have had a number of flashes of inspiration that lead me down what I believed was an untraveled path, only to find a while later that someone else was already there having a picnic. It can be quite a reality check for one's ego. It didn't keep me from exploring those avenues, but I was more sensitive to doing it with my own "voice."

2. Copying someone's work for the sake of learning methods and techniques has been pretty widely accepted as ok. Copying someone's work and presenting it as your own without credit is another matter. In the mid 2000's there was quite an ongoing *"discussion"* about plagerism with regard to forms and more in this and other forums as well as panel discussions at symposia.

I would like to suggest that anyone interested taking the discussion down this road first take a look in this forum's archves, and second, start a new thread.

 

[hockenbery]

For me it an iterative process.
I saw a Soren Berger Scoop demo. He turned a ball with a handle then hollowed jamb chucked the ball to make the scoop.
I had turned a lot of spheres so it was easy to turn Soren’s Scoop
I then had the idea to make a Two handled scoop.
This led to a hollow sphere with wings or legs

An early one with wings. .
Another early one on the left and the one on the right got juried into an AAW show
This led to an invite to demo the form at Totally Turning in New York

Then they evolved to have fish tails .

 

[hockenbery]

Ball in a ball came from a conversation with David Springette.
I have not been able to find anyone else who has a turned ball in a ball.
It is put together like a bodger green wood chair joint so it seems like someone would have done it.
This got in the techniques videos AAW used to put out.

 

[Ed Davidson]

"...about 90% of them, after taking a workshop, realize that it will take them a year longer than forever to learn the skills and techniques I use, and accept that they don't want to spend that time. They're the 'one and done' group. About 10% are really interested, and will invest in the tools and equipment, and make the effort..."

This is exactly my experience as well. I always tell people who want to learn how to make a one piece yo-yo: "if you want to turn a good one, be prepared to make at least one-hundred, and perhaps a thousand." This turns a lot of people off, I know. But the key to quality, uniqueness and achieving artform is repetition.

 

[RichColvin]

I’ve loved this saying since reading it the 1st time.

Nothing will ever please me, no matter how excellent or beneficial, if I must retain the knowledge of it to myself. And if wisdom were given me under the express condition that it must be kept hidden and not uttered, I should refuse it. No good thing is pleasant to possess, without friends to share it.​

From Seneca the Younger's "Moral Letters" to Lucilius, Letter 6, "On Sharing Knowledge"​

 

[hughie]

Interesting topic. What I do seems to attract a lot of attention from my peers, and I have no issue with teaching or sharing the knowledge. Do I teach often? Not really as I tend to be a hermit turner, having said that the times that I have I find many think its all to hard or difficult. So I spend a lot of my time pointing out/encouraging it really isn't and just give it a go.
Having experts share their techniques is incredibly important for all of us Yes I agree and for the most the woody fraternity world wide does this, its healthy and necessary

 

[Brian Gustin]

In the other thread regarding making money woodturning, Donna offered a very astute observation:

“The wood art side is entirely different. You need to find a niche, that isn't anything close to what others are making. Something that most have never seen before.”

I have no doubt this is true. My question is: If you came up with a new woodturning concept that was highly original and invented by your own creativity, would you be willing to share your “secret formula?”

Some woodturners share their knowledge of techniques openly… Others want to keep their cards secret…. If Donna teaches step by step how to do her marvelous painting/embellishing or John Beaver gives his recipe for creating those curves, could that possibly “devalue” their work if other people can then reproduce it? (Even if the follower’s attempts will never be as good as the original.) Is there any concern that a bunch of “wannabe” clones could come along and try to sell similar works?

Having experts share their techniques is incredibly important for all of us, but how important is it for great woodturners to keep at least some of their “creative secrets” to themselves?

Is there a consensus within the community on this? Thanks for any thoughts on the matter…

My own opinion, and experience: I think what Donna is getting at is, not necessarily a niche or uniqueness in the world of turning, but more, you want to find a niche in YOUR own market area

Case in point: Me. - There are at least 3 turners I know of locally (None in a club) that sell their work in my area - One of them has also done an attempt at a demonstration (once ever that I know of) at the local artisan co-op where I also put in my work - He has mainly Bowls for his offerings, and none really very artistic (nothing like what I often see in the galleries here) which are pretty much on a par with my own work. The other does bowls and gadgets (and has since retired and is selling off his tools and stuff, but not a lathe I am looking for, unfortunately) and also sells at the local farmer's market as I do. Rather than compete with them on Price, I have branched out into other things that prove popular I make spin tops (not on demand) , I do birdhouse ornaments, lanterns, bud vases, wood flowers, turned boxes, and stuff like that, in addition to natural edge bowls (Which are always popular here) for local farmers market and for the artisan center (co-op) My sales are no where near 4 figures a year , but a little extra pocket money does help defray some of the costs. In addition, I also do flat work (small furniture pieces, jewelry boxes, keepsake boxes) and will do custom work on spec (Nothing bigger than what I can physically lift on my workbench though, or load in a car, so nothing much exceeds 4 feet in any direction)

Upshot is, I found a niche of items I can make (Profitable? I have no idea - I don't track how much they cost me or my time) that will sell on a fairly consistent basis and make it worth the booth fees for the local shows I go to. So I think the idea of finding a niche or unique product is more along the lines of doing something in your area that your competitors are NOT doing.

 

[Dave Landers]

I have a couple things that are reasonably unique or somewhat original. Some I've not seen others do before (sliced hollow forms), others are my own take on fairly common things (goblets, shot barrels, kuksa).
My sliced hollow forms are inspired/derived from demos I saw by Emiliano Archival (Pewas) and John Beaver (Wave Bowls) plus tons of excellent information from lots of other folks.
No one demo (or piece in a gallery etc) immediately led to my forms, but all the shared info percolated and evolved (and still is). I fully credit John and others for their part in my form's evolution. But there are things that I came up with on my own (not to say that someone else couldn't figure it out, nor that someone else hasn't done the same things, but I have no knowledge of that).
I do demo how I make my sliced forms. There are a few techniques that I sometimes do which are not in the demo, but this is due to time. There's nothing missing from the demo (except time for skill development that would prevent someone from making their own sliced form. And if someone asks, I will tell them how I did "that other thing".
It would be totally selfish of me to keep secrets since I have gained so much from so many.

 

[Mike Harman]

Ball in a ball came from a conversation with David Springette.
I have not been able to find anyone else who has a turned ball in a ball.
It is put together like a bodger green wood chair joint so it seems like someone would have done it.
This got in the techniques videos AAW used to put out.
View attachment 57569

Hi Allan Re a ball in a ball I copied L.E. Bergerons idea and made my own tool to do this years ago and turned three balls within a ball. It took many attempts and ball explosions before i finaly got one that was complete. All the old masters from th 1800 and before have turned most objects that we think today are new if you research Bregeron and holffzpatel they show in their books how to do most things on a lathe. and how to make the tools to do it I dont think that I could still do three but two possibly as my eye sight isnt that great these days give it a go its not as hard as you think
Cheers Mike

 

[hockenbery]

Hi Allan Re a ball in a ball I copied L.E. Bergerons idea and made my own tool to do this years ago and turned three balls within a ball. It took many attempts and ball explosions before i finaly got one that was complete.

Different Ball in a ball.
Mine is a made by pushing a small ball into a larger one with a hollowed opening slightly smaller than the diameter of small ball. The elasticity of wood lets it open enough ( usually without cracking) then close trapping the smaller ball inside.

 

[Bill Blasic]

I can count the demos I have done on one hand. Demoing is not really my thing. What I like to do is teach, there is nothing better for me than taking someone who has no (or little) turning experience and watch them blossom into really decent turners. From where I leave off they continue to grow. I have done many many hands on with a lot of the best turners in the world and what I have learned I pass on as tidbits of info to these students and get them to take part in the turning hands on from pros that we bring in yearly to teach. You know after 22 years of turning I'm still learning, I do appreciate those who do demo.

 

[Randy Anderson]

When I retired I was fortunate to have a good friend locally who had been turning for years that was and is willing to show me all he had learned. He learned the hard way, YouTube and on his own. We still partner and share on wood we gather and do our local market events together. No substitute for having someone you can talk to and work with regularly to share ideas, tips and resources. Having an honest and knowledgeable critic is invaluable. I've only been able to help a few people get started. None of them have really stuck with it over time.

With most of my focus now on vases, especially large floor vases, I was again fortunate to find an expert (not local) to help me along and share all he knows and some of the tools to get started. I can't imagine how long it would have taken me to figure it out on my own, if ever. It's not a common area of focus and requires a good bit of DIY setup, tools and steps with not much online video help available.

To answer your question, yes. I would certainly share all I know when given the opportunity. I try to share here when I feel I have something worth sharing. I appreciate all those here that do on a regular basis.

 

[Jerry Bennett]

My stuff is on the artsy side. I share everything and hold back nothing. If someone decides to give it a try, I will help them along the way. They have my permission to copy down to the brushstroke. I have never been hurt by that and have garnered many friendships along the way. Win, Win!

 

[Mark Jundanian]

My stuff is on the artsy side.

Jerry, this may be the "under-est" under statement in the history of human language.

 

[robo hippy]

How to make a small fortune in business? Start with a large one..... I sold, mostly to support my habit.... I always did simple 'utilitarian' pieces that I wanted to see get used every day. A few rolling pins, and some boxes. I never did 'artsy' pieces. My bowl style can maybe be best described from the first time I saw Mike Mahoney turn. It was at the Portland AAW Symposium 15 or so years ago. He was in the vendor area turning a nice walnut platter. As he was turning the inside, he went down the rim and put a bead on the rim while explaining that the bead would draw the eye into the inside of the platter. As he was explaining that, I was thinking, well, you had a nice flowing line on the inside, and then you went and put a speed bump on it.... Different strokes for different folks. If you sell, you need vacationers, or Christmas markets. The only time people spend as much or more money than at Christmas is when they are on vacation. I would always have stacks of bowls and platters....

robo hippy