Yorkshire Grit and Finishing

[John Leech]

A quick question from a new turner: I have just completed a walnut bowl and during the sanding, I applied Yorkshire grit after I had sanded to 320. My plan for a finish was to apply a 1:1:1 blend of tung oil, satin poly and mineral sprits. My question is will the application of Yorkshire somehow interfere with the finish I intend to use given the fact that I didn't apply sanding sealer beforehand. The grit came with 2 sets of instructions: one says to use sanding sealer, the other makes no mention of it. I'll let you guess which set I read first.

Thanks for your help,
John

 

[Monty Ivy]

I use a similar product (Acks) for finishing. I generally use an oil (T&T, Odies) on top of that and I've had good results. I'm not sure where you are going with the satin poly in the mix.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Michael Anderson]

I’d agree with Monty—discard the satin poly n the mix. Tung oil would be a fine finish on its own (though maybe dilute the first coat or two with mineral spirits), albeit takes a while to fully cure. One reason for discarding the satin, is that if you went through the trouble of applying Yorkshire grit, you may be better suited with at least a semi-gloss appearance. Tried and True would be good. I’ve also had nice results with Howard’s Feed N Wax. OR you can just go with a friction polish mix of shellac and walnut oil (Doctor’s Woodshop makes a nice product).

There are so many finishes and strategies out there. It really depends on what your intention for the piece is—do you want something shiny and pretty? Something durable? Just examples.

 

[John Leech]

Thanks for your replies, Michael and Monty. The decision to use the satin poly came about after a discussion with a club member who uses that formula to finish pretty much all of his pieces. I’ve always felt that his finished pieces have done a good job of showing both depth and durability. His procedure involves 3-4 coats and the Beal buffed. I’ve turned a couple of smaller pieces and have used a shellac based friction polish on them but I’d like this bowl to be a tad bit more durable. The grain is rather nice so I’d like for it to show

 

[Michael Anderson]

Fair enough. If it works, it works, and the poly will definitely give you the durability. Would love to see photos of the piece once it’s finished!

 

[John Leech]

Thanks for your help and suggestions. I'll mull it over and as Grandma used to say, "Use my best judgement."

I'll post pictures when it's complete.

But until then, there's a lot to learn...

 

[Doug Freeman]

I finish a lot of pieces with semi gloss poly. It reduces sheen in negative grain areas, preventing a “plastic coated” look. Thinned 1:1 and applied like danish oil. Buffed when cured.

After using any wax containing product, wipe the surface down with naptha or mineral spirits to remove the wax. Next time dont use any wax containing substance before applying finish. Any of those wax/grit products can be used after the finish cures.

 

[Tim Starliper]

One of my go-to finishes for larger pieces (I.E. not pens) is O.B. Shine Juice. Equal parts clear de-waxed shellac (pre-mixed), boiled linseed oil, and denatured alcohol. Wipe it on, then crank the lathe up and buff like you would a friction polish. Use several thin coats to build the finish. I generally follow it up with carnauba wax for that last bit of polish (the latter on the buffing wheel, not the lathe).

 

[David Wrate]

One of my go-to finishes for larger pieces (I.E. not pens) is O.B. Shine Juice. Equal parts clear de-waxed shellac (pre-mixed), boiled linseed oil, and denatured alcohol. Wipe it on, then crank the lathe up and buff like you would a friction polish. Use several thin coats to build the finish. I generally follow it up with carnauba wax for that last bit of polish (the latter on the buffing wheel, not the lathe).

Does it have to be dewaxed or is waxed fine too?

 

[hughie]

Thanks for your replies, Michael and Monty. The decision to use the satin poly came about after a discussion with a club member who uses that formula to finish pretty much all of his pieces. I’ve always felt that his finished pieces have done a good job of showing both depth and durability. His procedure involves 3-4 coats and the Beal buffed. I’ve turned a couple of smaller pieces and have used a shellac based friction polish on them but I’d like this bowl to be a tad bit more durable. The grain is rather nice so I’d like for it to show

I use something very similar its a fairly standard Danish Oil recipe 30/30/30/ quite often BLO is used as its cheaper than Tung oil. Basically the oil brings up the grain the thinners gives you penetration and the Poly gives a good setting ability to the mix. Wipe it on till the piece wont take any more, then usually its set aside for 5-10mins and the excess is wiped off. If you dont wipe off the excess it will turn into a gooey mess. If your going to give it several coats the process is gonna a take a few days as it will some drying between coats. As David mentioned you have to de-wax it after the Yorkshire, dunno I have never used it.

But if your looking for a faster method with a moderate shine. Consider using Antique Oil from Minwax, its a wipe on buff off finish, if you want more shine repeat the process.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Does it have to be dewaxed or is waxed fine too?

Not Tim but always use dewaxed shellac for finishing. No sense in taking chances after putting all that work in.I use flakes so mix is always fresh.

 

[Michael Anderson]

Just to echo Gerald's comment, dewaxed shellac is the only shellac in my book. As a general rule of thumb, dewaxed shellac sticks to everything, and everything sticks to dewaxed shellac. Obviously there are exceptions (wax, for example). And yes, mixing it fresh from flakes is the way to go!

Shellac is magical stuff, and very versatile.

 

[David Wrate]

Not to derail but finding denatured alcohol in Canada is nigh on impossible.

 

[Michael Anderson]

Not to derail but finding denatured alcohol in Canada is nigh on impossible.

You can also use high proof grain alcohol (95% instead of DNA with similar results. I’ve never done so, but here is a Fine Woodworking article that sells the concept pretty well:

Shellac Solvent: Grain Alcohol vs. Denatured Alcohol - FineWoodworking

Shellac is a wonderful finish with a fantastic range of applications and possibilities. It can range from an easy utility finish all the way up to the finest of fine […]

www.finewoodworking.com

 

[David Wrate]

You can also use high proof grain alcohol (95% instead of DNA with similar results. I’ve never done so, but here is a Fine Woodworking article that sells the concept pretty well:

Shellac Solvent: Grain Alcohol vs. Denatured Alcohol - FineWoodworking

Shellac is a wonderful finish with a fantastic range of applications and possibilities. It can range from an easy utility finish all the way up to the finest of fine […]

www.finewoodworking.com

Looks like I'll be heading to the vendors!

 

[Tim Starliper]

Looks like I am late to the party, David, but looks like the waxed/dewaxed has pretty much been answered In the 'recipe' I always took 'plain' in the description to mean dewaxed. I have had success, so when I share the formula (so simple I don't bother looking it up any more) I mention clear dewaxed.

I was not aware that DNA is not readily available north of the border. Might it be something available via a drug store? It is also sold as a fuel for alcohol stoves. As pointed out by Michael, you can use high-proof (the higher the better) grain alcohol. The Fine Woodworking article linked mentions possible issues using DNA to dissolve flake shellac, but for the shine juice that is not necessary since it uses a pre-mixed shellac. The alcohol serves primarily as a carrier for the BLO and Shellac, and evaporates quickly shortening the dry time.

I generally buy DNA by the gallon at the big-box hardware store. Use it for multiple things around the shop - such as wiping down a turning to get rid of surface oils and sanding dust before applying shine juice

Oh, one tip with the shine juice - if you mix a batch and put it in a mason jar (or similar), make sure you take care to clean the threads of the jar and lid every time you use it. Some day, I will soak the jar I can no longer open in some alcohol and see if that softens it enough to unscrew the lid. I now get the empty pint paint cans from the big box store and mix a batch in those. Much easier to open the lid even if it does get sealed with shellac.

 

[David Wrate]

Thanks @Tim Starliper, great tips. My first foray into shellac was for my workbench top and I'm pleased with the results so I'd like to see how it goes on turnings.

 

[Brian Gustin]

Oh, one tip with the shine juice - if you mix a batch and put it in a mason jar (or similar), make sure you take care to clean the threads of the jar and lid every time you use it. Some day, I will soak the jar I can no longer open in some alcohol and see if that softens it enough to unscrew the lid. I now get the empty pint paint cans from the big box store and mix a batch in those. Much easier to open the lid even if it does get sealed with shellac.

I'd probably splurge a little bit and buy a bunch of stop loss bags at amazon. They work very nicely for my store-bought shellac and other finishes, and preserve them quite well since you can dispense just what is needed, and for storage, "burp" out the air in the bag, your finishes stay fresher longer.

 

[Tim Starliper]

I'd probably splurge a little bit and buy a bunch of stop loss bags at amazon. They work very nicely for my store-bought shellac and other finishes, and preserve them quite well since you can dispense just what is needed, and for storage, "burp" out the air in the bag, your finishes stay fresher longer.

I saw a tip from someone else, possibly on here, about getting the bags for wine or other beverages. Very much like the stop loss bags with an important exception - the price. I forget what I paid for the ones I have, I do remember a number of the reviews talked about using them for finishes instead. I would think the same applies, though, clean the threads/cap if you plan to open it again. I have not used mine yet, but even if I get shorter life out of the bag, I am still farther ahead than the stop loss bags - especially since you can get quite a few of these for less.

 

[Tim Starliper]

Thanks @Tim Starliper, great tips. My first foray into shellac was for my workbench top and I'm pleased with the results so I'd like to see how it goes on turnings.

I forget where I first heard of O.B. Shine Juice, but Cap'n Eddie Castelin has a good video on his channel about making and using it.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taJbBmcaAZQ

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

@Tim Starliper I saw that somewhere and ordered the wine bags. I think it might have been 8 bags in two sizes for maybe $10.

 

[Aaron Harris]

John-I love Yorkshire Grit and use it on most of my bowls after sanding to 600. I then follow up with numerous coats of TruOil gunstock finish on old t-shirt squares dampened with mineral spirits, anywhere from 4 to as many as a dozen or more coats depending on the wood and the depth of shine and finish I'm going for. This finishing regimen works beautifully on black walnut, and again, no sanding sealer is needed. I can't comment on the poly addition, but the TruOil is a blend of mineral spirits/thinners, a varnish, and polymerizing linseed oil. It gets glossier the more coats you rub in, but of course can be de-glossed with 0000 steel wool if you're someone who uses that-many don't like its tendency to leave behind tiny wires that can rust.

I have used OB Shine Juice with great results, but it is a lot of work on bigger items to get it just right, and doesn't stand up to handling well. For my food-safe bowls, I've been getting great results doing a friction polish on the lathe with Doctor's Woodshop Walnut Oil and Wax.

Personally, I think experimenting with sanding and finishes is an art form unto itself. We all love getting that first grain-pop when you wipe on the first coat of finish!