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220 V surge suppressor [20 amp]

Joined
May 28, 2015
Messages
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Location
Bainbridge Island, WA
Any know of a good 220V/20A surge suppressor I could plug the Harvey lathe into? NW weather is starting to ramp up, we're on our 3rd or 4th Island power outage, lights are flickering. A few years ago, I lost the pellet stove control board, that was expensive enough! TIA.
 
Any know of a good 220V/20A surge suppressor I could plug the Harvey lathe into? NW weather is starting to ramp up, we're on our 3rd or 4th Island power outage, lights are flickering. A few years ago, I lost the pellet stove control board, that was expensive enough! TIA.
You might look into 50A RV surge suppressors. Plugs would probably need to be adapted but there are several brands: Progressive, WatchDog, Southwire, etc
 
I would need to look up the brand, but my local utility company gets me adis punt on their preferred brand of whole-building surge suppressor that gets installed at the meter. I buy at their price and they install for free.
 
Or just disconnect the power to the lathe.
which is what I do when it isn't in use, but turning while you have stormy weather outside is the risk then, so I'd still say you want surge suppression and if going for that why not protect the rest of the electronics in the house (lot of modern new appliances also seem to have sensitive electronics as well)
 
Another one to look into might be a whole house surge suppressor that wires right into your main breaker panel https://www.homedepot.com/s/Whole-House-Surge-Protectors/?NCNI-5


I should look into one of those. We had a direct hit a few years ago. My shop is around the corner from our house, so my lathe was fine, but it zapped our well pump, a TV, home theater reciever, cable modem, 2 routers, electronic thermostat, 2 of 3 garage openers, and our gate opener. About $6k damage with a $6k deductible. 😖
 
I should look into one of those. We had a direct hit a few years ago. My shop is around the corner from our house, so my lathe was fine, but it zapped our well pump, a TV, home theater reciever, cable modem, 2 routers, electronic thermostat, 2 of 3 garage openers, and our gate opener. About $6k damage with a $6k deductible. 😖
I’m a believer in these and have installed them on our last two homes, very easy. But if you get a direct hit all bets are off, lighting is powerful stuff!
 
I would need to look up the brand, but my local utility company gets me adis punt on their preferred brand of whole-building surge suppressor that gets installed at the meter. I buy at their price and they install for free.
Thanks to those who suggested "whole house" but hoping to avoid. I will, however, look into the expense. It might be worth it so as to not be as concerned about computers, well pump, etc.
 
Doesn't help much if I'm actually turning when we have a power surge.:(
Weather forecasting has gotten so good that those of us at risk from lightening, tornados, and hurricanes can get a warning not to be out in the shop. That might not hold for you, with non-weather related power surges, but unplugging works for most of us.
 
Weather forecasting has gotten so good that those of us at risk from lightening, tornados, and hurricanes can get a warning not to be out in the shop. That might not hold for you, with non-weather related power surges, but unplugging works for most of us.
Absolutely crazy "bomb cyclone" weather on the island yesterday, but our neighborhood did not have a power outage. Lightning was not forecast at all, just rain a serious wind. I could have turned for another two hours if there was surge protection, and with a sale coming up in two days, it would have been nice to have the time. The improvement in forecasting is impressive -- I've been a weather nut for years, going back to horse-training days when there were certain horses better left in their stalls on a stormy, windy day.:D:eek::D
 
Any know of a good 220V/20A surge suppressor I could plug the Harvey lathe into? NW weather is starting to ramp up, we're on our 3rd or 4th Island power outage, lights are flickering. A few years ago, I lost the pellet stove control board, that was expensive enough! TIA.
Jamie, My new T60 arrived this week, so I am hoping you get a good answer!
 
I have a 220V Powermatic 3530C. Of course it has variable speed. My understanding is that you cannot use a surge protector with this type of lathe. Since I am not an electrician or engineer, I'm not sure why but it has something to do with the variable speed control not operating when connected to a surge protector. This information came directly from Powermatic support (a JPW company). I don't know if using a whole house protector would ba OK for this type of lathe. Now, if you have an older style lathe that doesn't have a variable speed control, then there may be 220V surge protectors that would work.
 
I have a 220V Powermatic 3530C. Of course it has variable speed. My understanding is that you cannot use a surge protector with this type of lathe. Since I am not an electrician or engineer, I'm not sure why but it has something to do with the variable speed control not operating when connected to a surge protector. This information came directly from Powermatic support (a JPW company). I don't know if using a whole house protector would ba OK for this type of lathe. Now, if you have an older style lathe that doesn't have a variable speed control, then there may be 220V surge protectors that would work.
Ooooo, thanks for that info. Might lean to whole-house protection. The whole VSC can create interesting issues. One of our members developed automatic dust control gates for 10 various machines plus the 6 lathes, but we had to take them off the lathes because, since they're not unplugged at night, somehow the VSC was tricking the DC gates into opening and closing in the middle of the night.
 
I have a 220V Powermatic 3530C. Of course it has variable speed. My understanding is that you cannot use a surge protector with this type of lathe. Since I am not an electrician or engineer, I'm not sure why but it has something to do with the variable speed control not operating when connected to a surge protector. This information came directly from Powermatic support (a JPW company). I don't know if using a whole house protector would ba OK for this type of lathe. Now, if you have an older style lathe that doesn't have a variable speed control, then there may be 220V surge protectors that would work.
I have a 240v PM3520B and have operated it in my house with a whole-house protector (wired at the panel) for the last 8yrs, and in a prior house with a similar whole-house protector for about 10yrs before that.
 
I have a 220V Powermatic 3530C. Of course it has variable speed. My understanding is that you cannot use a surge protector with this type of lathe. Since I am not an electrician or engineer, I'm not sure why but it has something to do with the variable speed control not operating when connected to a surge protector. This information came directly from Powermatic support (a JPW company). I don't know if using a whole house protector would ba OK for this type of lathe. Now, if you have an older style lathe that doesn't have a variable speed control, then there may be 220V surge protectors that would work.
Actually, they specifically say to not run on a GFCI circuit, which is a whole different thing from a surge suppressor.

However, I know the lathe when running will actually back-feed into the power line and disrupt other electrical devices that are run off the same power circuit (For example, a LED lamp I got for extra lighting will go completely wonky and often not even work, so I ended up plugging in a surge suppressor strip and then connect the lamp into the strip.)

However a GFCI will regularly trip when you switch on the VFD as it is "seeing" a short to ground. (Due to how the VFD can back-feed through the lines)

Surge suppressors are more of a line filter to smooth out the voltages supplied (Regular household supply can vary by several volts as different stuff is being operated, and sudden surges in voltages are filtered by the surge suppressors to feed a more even voltage supply.) So I'd think it should not be a problem to plug in your VFD to a surge suppressor strip, however, I wouldn't use the typical low end strips sold for computers and the like - They are not designed to handle the higher currents, and are often notorious for overheating, melting down and causing fires. But something like a whole house suppressor installed at the electrical service drop should have no effect, and still protect against line surges (but won't do much for surges caused by nearby lightning strikes that actually can travel through the ground and back into the house, bypassing any surge suppression)

Of course, if there's an electrical engineer that knows better than I do, that cares to respond, I'll defer to what they have to say...
 
I’m a believer in these and have installed them on our last two homes, very easy. But if you get a direct hit all bets are off, lighting is powerful stuff!


We had an extremely powerful lightning strike on our hill a few years ago. Hit a tree near the top of the hill and splattered chunks of that 48" diameter tree over 100 ft in every direction. I had unplugged everything but the Comcast cable. Took out the cable modem, one small TV, the motherboard for my desktop computer in the shop, some small devices, two uninterruptible power supplies feeding computers, and oddly, a solar electric fence charger. I suspect the primary surge traveled through the ground. Fortunately I had a protection plan that covered the computer motherboard. Turned out the surge only took out the switch on the fence charger, not the electronics.

BTW, this is the surge protector my tech son recommends for TVs and such:

I unplug the lathes with VFDs when a storm threatens. I also unplug the computers, the NAS, and now, the cable modem and both ends of all ethernet lines from it.

For 20 years before then, no lightning or power surge had affected a thing. One thing that might have helped in other lightning strikes is all utilities on our property are underground.

As for GFCI, I had to remove the one to my 110v Jet1642 lathes since just turning them on would trip the the circuit.

The whole-house surge protectors are inexpensive and easy to install (if you do it yourself). Need a good connection to ground (best to run two or three ground rods maybe 8' apart. Some cities and communities will install the whole-house protectors for free - the city where we lived before we moved to the country did that.
 
Another one to look into might be a whole house surge suppressor that wires right into your main breaker panel https://www.homedepot.com/s/Whole-House-Surge-Protectors/?NCNI-5
I think I have the Intermatic one installed on my breaker box. I guess it is working, since having no problems for at least 10 yrs if not longer. A electrician friend suggest I install one as a safety.
Read the rest of the comments and using the PM3520B had no problems and have led lights above and have not noticed any issues with them.
 
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This has been an interesting thread as I had been looking at the possibility of getting such a thing for My Robust lathe and possibly other tools. Mine has tripped about 4 times now after storms and not sure how many more times the box can take. Could I unplug it, sure but not really practical as I have many tools in the shop, the shop is about 200' from the house, and most important I'm not home a lot of times when storms happen.
I was just going to buy a plug in unit similar to your 110 ones, but after reading this posting, decided to see what a whole house unit cost. Quite honestly that is the only way to go it seems, as it would be great to have everything protected, and most importantly it looks to be fairly reasonable. Actually, really reasonable, much more reasonable than I imagined.
Not only is it reasonable, but I can easily do it myself. Not only that I already have an unused 50 amp 2 pole breaker already in my box from something I got rid of.
For those electrically challenged, or just want an electrician, It still should be a simple fairly quick and reasonable job. I honestly thought something like this would be much more expensive than it was and am really glad this post came up.
 
GFCI outlets are required in garages in Iowa with exception of one over head outlet for overhead door openers that will trip the circuit. My shop is attached to my garage. I'm no way electrically qualified; so l hired an electrician to run a 50 amp line to my shop. I don't think the 220v outlets have any protection( lathe, dust collator, & table saw). I hope that is to code. I don't know the technical necessity, but l do know that many thousands of dollars are spent on surge protection for sensitive industrial equipment. Would things we are talking about here really prevent damage to our machines? I think I'll continue to unplug my lathe when l leave the shop for now.
 
From what I gather after studying up on this the last couple days, a direct lightning hit, probably not. Other than that, things such as power interrupted going on and off, and other things such as that, for the most part yes, but there are different levels of protection offered. Some don't protect as much as others.
They look to be very easy to install if your main box has two open slots to install a double pole 220 breaker. If so, installing on to an inside breaker panel should take no more than 15-20 minutes if you are handy with electric. If you don't have two open slots available, like in my case where I only have one open slot, it gets more complicated. There are 110 breakers with double switches that allow you to bring two wires to a single slot opening up another slot, but depending on your box, if you have some of those already, your box may not allow anymore to be installed. In my case I am going to have to move some wires around to be able to come up with the two adjoining slots needed for the 220 breaker needed. Not a deal breaker, just might take an hr or two to do everything neatly. I would not recommend doing all the moving of wires as I have to unless you are an electrician, or are very familiar with doing things such as this. If you have two open adjoining slots already in your box, it is very simple.
I probably will be going with a SQ D HEPD80 or a Eaton Ultra, both with a high level of protection and reasonably priced. There have been others mentioned in this topic and they seem good also. I do know my Robust lathe box has tripped 4 times sofar because of storms and I don't want to replace the controller. We also had to have Spectrum come out the other day as our modem and other box quit working after a storm. Seeing as how reasonable in price these things are, under $200, it's good piece of mind.

 

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Also being in the blast radius of the PNW bomb cyclone, this thread caught my interest. Doing a little digging around turned up HVAC Surge Protective Devices, such as this one from Intermatic. It looks like it would be easy enough to wire one up, though I expect you'd probably need to move the outlet itself to a surface mount electrical box as part of the install. From my view, that's a "bonus" since I spec'ed NEMA locking outlets and plugs for my shop... if I find a surge suppressor with a NEMA L outlet off-the-shelf I think I'll have to add it to my collection of hen's teeth. 😜

That said, I'm not an electrician and it's unclear whether there would be any issues with running a lathe as a load off of one of these SPD units.
 
Actually, they specifically say to not run on a GFCI circuit, which is a whole different thing from a surge suppressor.

However, I know the lathe when running will actually back-feed into the power line and disrupt other electrical devices that are run off the same power circuit (For example, a LED lamp I got for extra lighting will go completely wonky and often not even work, so I ended up plugging in a surge suppressor strip and then connect the lamp into the strip.)

However a GFCI will regularly trip when you switch on the VFD as it is "seeing" a short to ground. (Due to how the VFD can back-feed through the lines)

Surge suppressors are more of a line filter to smooth out the voltages supplied (Regular household supply can vary by several volts as different stuff is being operated, and sudden surges in voltages are filtered by the surge suppressors to feed a more even voltage supply.) So I'd think it should not be a problem to plug in your VFD to a surge suppressor strip, however, I wouldn't use the typical low end strips sold for computers and the like - They are not designed to handle the higher currents, and are often notorious for overheating, melting down and causing fires. But something like a whole house suppressor installed at the electrical service drop should have no effect, and still protect against line surges (but won't do much for surges caused by nearby lightning strikes that actually can travel through the ground and back into the house, bypassing any surge suppression)

Of course, if there's an electrical engineer that knows better than I do, that cares to respond, I'll defer to what they have to say...
Brian,

I'm no electrician or electrical engineer. However, when I ask a company's support representative and he/she provides a definite answer, I follow their direction. I asked Powermatic specifically about surge protectors, since I had a problem with my previous Nova lathe that Nova refused to cover because I had not used a surge protector. The Powermatic answer to my question whether there was a 220 V surge protector Powermatic would recommend. His answer was that a surge protector could not be used with the speed control on the 3520C because (and the reason is not a quote) the lathe would not turn on if plugged into a surge protector. I'm sure you're correct about the GFCI circuit but that wasn't the question I asked.
 
Brian,

I'm no electrician or electrical engineer. However, when I ask a company's support representative and he/she provides a definite answer, I follow their direction. I asked Powermatic specifically about surge protectors, since I had a problem with my previous Nova lathe that Nova refused to cover because I had not used a surge protector. The Powermatic answer to my question whether there was a 220 V surge protector Powermatic would recommend. His answer was that a surge protector could not be used with the speed control on the 3520C because (and the reason is not a quote) the lathe would not turn on if plugged into a surge protector. I'm sure you're correct about the GFCI circuit but that wasn't the question I asked.
Let me just put it this way: After getting some *AMAZINGLY STUPID* answers from corporate product support flunkies over the years (Including supposed technical support for professional repair folks like I was) I take anything that a product support person over the phone tells me with not one, but *several*, grains of salt.
Some of them are not all that bright.
I'd be more likely to take advice from a field service tech that has been in the field for a few years than from anyone reading a book over the phone. Could very well be that the person you talked to confused "Surge Suppressor" for "GFCI", thinking they were synonyms.
 
I have never gotten a bad or "stupid" answer from Powermatic. On occasion, they have not had the answer, but were up front about it. Plus, I also have Jet eequipment and the answers I have gotten from their support people, mainly one in particular, have always addressed my concerns and, based on my acting on their information, my problem has beens solved. Most of us aren't experts and, when a support person at a company that we have had past success with provides an answer that actually seems to match reality, we take it. You could be right about what you say, but I have not found any surge protectors on the market which are made for the control unit on the lathe. My only conclusion can be that there is a good reason for that. As for whole house GCFI, it may very well be a good idea, but I don't really feel the need to take that step as it would either be more money that I care to spend or beyond my electrical capabilities. So, I'm not saying your wrong or right; just that the response I got from Powermatic seems to be born out by the lack of availability of what I was looking for and other information I have gotten through research.

For all I know, your information could be incorrect, especially since you are a complete stranger to me. There is a lot of that on all forums.
 
I have never gotten a bad or "stupid" answer from Powermatic. On occasion, they have not had the answer, but were up front about it. Plus, I also have Jet eequipment and the answers I have gotten from their support people, mainly one in particular, have always addressed my concerns and, based on my acting on their information, my problem has beens solved. Most of us aren't experts and, when a support person at a company that we have had past success with provides an answer that actually seems to match reality, we take it. You could be right about what you say, but I have not found any surge protectors on the market which are made for the control unit on the lathe. My only conclusion can be that there is a good reason for that. As for whole house GCFI, it may very well be a good idea, but I don't really feel the need to take that step as it would either be more money that I care to spend or beyond my electrical capabilities. So, I'm not saying your wrong or right; just that the response I got from Powermatic seems to be born out by the lack of availability of what I was looking for and other information I have gotten through research.

For all I know, your information could be incorrect, especially since you are a complete stranger to me. There is a lot of that on all forums.
You’ve confused (or used interchangeably) surge protection and GFCI in your last response. There are three main electronic protection devices many use: Surge suppressors (to limit voltage surges on the line); GFCI (to protect user from being electrocuted); and Arc Fault breakers (to protect from fires due to loose wiring etc). All of these have their place, and it may well be that VFD’s can’t deal with any of these located too close (electrically), I don’t know. I do know that my PM3520 has tolerated a whole house surge protector wired into the panel of two different homes for over 20yrs.

A whole-house surge protector is just a good idea in general, and not very expensive. Many local electric companies will put a surge protector ‘ring’ on your meter for a few dollars a month. I have installed units myself wired into the panels ($100-200 if I recall from 10yrs ago). Recognize that none of these will protect from a direct strike, and frankly limiting voltage spikes induced on your internal lines from your own motors etc is probably the best reason to install them to protect sensitive electronic components.

The way these suppressors work is to shunt excess voltage spikes to ground, they have limits to how much they can absorb and how quickly they react but I certainly think they are worthwhile and they haven’t bothered my equipment.
 
You’ve confused (or used interchangeably) surge protection and GFCI in your last response. There are three main electronic protection devices many use: Surge suppressors (to limit voltage surges on the line); GFCI (to protect user from being electrocuted); and Arc Fault breakers (to protect from fires due to loose wiring etc). All of these have their place, and it may well be that VFD’s can’t deal with any of these located too close (electrically), I don’t know. I do know that my PM3520 has tolerated a whole house surge protector wired into the panel of two different homes for over 20yrs.

A whole-house surge protector is just a good idea in general, and not very expensive. Many local electric companies will put a surge protector ‘ring’ on your meter for a few dollars a month. I have installed units myself wired into the panels ($100-200 if I recall from 10yrs ago). Recognize that none of these will protect from a direct strike, and frankly limiting voltage spikes induced on your internal lines from your own motors etc is probably the best reason to install them to protect sensitive electronic components.

The way these suppressors work is to shunt excess voltage spikes to ground, they have limits to how much they can absorb and how quickly they react but I certainly think they are worthwhile and they haven’t bothered my equipment.

My Powermatic 3520C uses a VFD. I tried using Ground and Arc fault protectors in both my local panel in my garage (probably 15-20 feet from the lathe) as well as on my main panel outside (100 feet away?) and the VFD would NOT work with any kind of fault breaker anywhere. Did not seem to matter the distance. The breakers would all trip shortly after starting the motor on the lathe.

In a general sense, I don't think a VFD or even most motors would work with a ground or arc fault breaker or outlet. Partly the nature of motors.

Regarding surge protection, I have never tried that, so I can't speak to it directly. But I think surge protection is different than fault protection, as in one case one is protecting against shorts within the lines, in a sense. Surge on the other hand, is a different kind of event, not necessarily from arcing or shorting or anything like that, but from a rapid change in power levels (i.e. from a close lightning strike.) I could see a motor working fine with surge protection, but not with ground/arc fault protection.
 
Just heard back from Bret at Robust lathes. He said no issues using surge protection, and often recommended for VFD's when used in industry.
So as expected, good to go with a whole house surge protection. I think where the confusion came before with Powermatic, was mixing up surge protection with GCFI. Anyway, I'm actually looking forward to having my whole house protected. I had thought about it in the past, but just assumed it was to complicated and expensive. Under $150 for me for a very high rated one.
 
Any know of a good 220V/20A surge suppressor I could plug the Harvey lathe into? NW weather is starting to ramp up, we're on our 3rd or 4th Island power outage, lights are flickering. A few years ago, I lost the pellet stove control board, that was expensive enough! TIA.
My son in law got me this for Christmas. I tried it out today and it worked fine, no troubles with the vfd. It plugs into your wall receptacle and you plug your lathe into the device. I made a small bowl and a lid for it. It kicks the power off if it goes too high or low on voltage and says it cuts power for a lightning strike. I always unplug the lathe when I'm not using it and I have a whole house surge protection. He thought I should have this in case I'm turning when a storm comes up. It says it's good for anything with a motor up to 20 amps or 4400 watts.
 

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Looks like a good idea to have one of these protectors. You can find this particular voltage protector on Amazon along with several other similar ones. Look at the image of the back of the device. Make sure the plug configuration is the same as your outlet. There is more than one configuration for a 220V plug. This one appears to be the EU type plug. Just so happens that that is what my lathe comes with.
 
Any know of a good 220V/20A surge suppressor I could plug the Harvey lathe into? NW weather is starting to ramp up, we're on our 3rd or 4th Island power outage, lights are flickering. A few years ago, I lost the pellet stove control board, that was expensive enough! TIA.
I just had a 220 outlet installed and broached this subject to the electrician. He noted multiple surge protector options that would cover just the lathe ranging in price from $49-$80. He suggested avoiding the super cheap options. As an alternative he recommended a whole house surge protector that is installed in the panel. That is $150. I’m going with that option.
 
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