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4 questions with 1 stone

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Hey fellas I'm at the point where I need to finish out some of my turning tools and figured I should stop by before making the investment. I've got a Jet 1221 VS and am looking for both a bowl coring system and Longworth chuck appropriate for my lathe. Far as the coring system goes I'm almost settled on the One Way 12" mini system. If there's a better system out there for a beginner like myself please mention it, but I'm fairly sure this should be the best option for ease of use. I see they offer replacement cutter heads. If the kit doesn't come with a carbide cutter should I go ahead and order that as well?

As for the Longworth chuck, I already have a Nova G3 chuck and wondering what's the least expensive but capable option I should look at for a Longworth that's compatible with my Nova G3? Also, not being that studied up on these kind of chucks, since my lathe swing is 12" I assume any Longworth described as 12" is appropriate for my Jet.

Last tool question...need advice on a good sanding system, drill, pads and disks. I get emails from the Woodturners Wonders and they're advertising two of their systems. One angle drill driven and the other friction driven. I'm guessing the drill is the better option? Only issue I have with that kit is Reed Gray talks about how the softer backed pads don't do well with the lower grits, so I guess I'll have to get more parts than this kit offers. Are the Woodturners Wonders kits worth looking into or are there better options out there?

Sanding kit link

And last, I have absolutely lucked out and found 10 good sized Walnut trees that a guy needs cut down, so if it turns out I can get this very labor intensive job done I'll have wood for a good long time to come. Brings me to the question, what's the best way / procedures / time of year to fell a tree with the idea of keeping it's bark on through storage / drying and the turning process? Believe I've seen winter is the best time to fell but is say November weather in Kentucky good enough or should I wait more toward late Dec or Jan?
 
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Wow...Brad- you saved up to make this post!
I have used 3 coring systems - and find the Oneway to be the most user friendly, and supported by 3rd party manufacturers with"ad-ons" when you reach that point.

Longworth's are nice - and I own one...but usually I find that making a few jamb chucks with padding on the end that will go into the bowl/vessel, and using the tailstock with an appropriate live center meets my needs to finish the bottom of a bowl - if that is your quest. Vacuum chucking is another option - but that may be more money than you want o spend right now.

If you call Woodturner's Wonders and talk to them - they can advise and help you put together a kit to get you going. There are a lot of variables in sanding. The type and hardness of the wood, and the amount of pressure you are applying along with the speed of the lathe and drill motor are but some of the components in this "experience based" equation. Here is what has helped me: SLOW speed on the lathe and the drill. And - very little pressure. We have a tendency to push against the sandpaper more than is needed/beneficial and create more problems for ourselves. Next, work on making cleaner cuts. That allows you to start your sanding at a higher grit, saving time and producing a better overall finish. Less need for sanding equal better finish in general. This too is a practice based thing that you will continue to get better and better at with some time at the lathe.

Most trees are bast felled when their sap is the lowest. But that is not the most convenient time of year if there is snow and it is very cold. So, why not start with ONE tree? You will be amazed at how fast you can accrue SO much wood - that will crack before you can get to it to process into blanks and turn....I would recommend caution, and pacing yourself in this case.

Now - some questions for you:
Do you have a club within driving distance? The AAW main site can provide that information. ( Bluegrass Area Woodturners looks like your closest club )I would urge you with all I can - to seek out a mentor. Ask folks with your closest club for recommendations for a teacher that I well accomplished and has good teaching skills. I cannot over emphasize the benefit of this to you. It will give yo the benefit of many years of experience snd advance your skills much faster than you can do on your own with watching videos. Seriously....
The folks on this forum are a wonderful resource and always ready to help anyone they can - via a keyboard. But having local folks that are well accomplished turners will be the best resource for your skill growth and advice on things to try.
I hope you will continue to participate here - and post any questions you may have.
Now, go make shavings!
T
 

Dave Landers

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Re the sanding question:

Had great experiences with stuff from Woodturners Wonders, although I don't use much of their sanding stuff currently. I can recommend Steve Worcester - good quality and I like that the sanding disks are each marked so I can tell what I got in the pile that inevitably ends up on my headstock. I'd start with 2" disks from either place.

I'd with an angle drill for sanding. Heard the one that Woodturners Wonders sells is good (I have a Milwalkee).

If you want an inertia sander, my suggestion is to go to Harbor Freight (or equivalent) and get a cheap 90 degree mini die grinder. I use that without air as an inertia sander. (Note that it has a 1/4" collet, so you'll need a smooth shaft on the mandrel - Steve's are hex shaft).
 
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As for the Longworth chuck, I already have a Nova G3 chuck and wondering what's the least expensive but capable option I should look at for a Longworth that's compatible with my Nova G3? Also, not being that studied up on these kind of chucks, since my lathe swing is 12" I assume any Longworth described as 12" is appropriate for my Jet.
As mentioned there are multiple methods to hold a piece by the rim end. These include Cole, Longworth, glue block, jam and vacuum chucks. I use all of them; it just depends on the situation.

I bought my Longworth from Ron Brown's Best and am happy with it. Be advised that Ron's first version is designed to be held by a 4 jaw chuck with 50 mm dovetail jaws and it can NOT be mounted on the Nova chuck that you (and I) have. He has a later version which incorporates a face plate so it threads directly onto your spindle and this is the product you would want to consider.

I know of another guy on Etsy who makes Longworths on a CNC. I can get his shop particulars if you want.

When I read something is 12" I consider that an approximation. You can measure the actual swing of your lathe with a ruler and see if it's a bit over or under. But you may not be able to confirm the fit of the Longworth until you put it on your lathe.
 
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I feel confident only addressing 2 of your questions:
1. I own the Doughnut Chuck from Ron Brown's Best site, mainly bought for finishing bottoms of bowls. It does work well but I found that it is a little difficult to set up to eliminate most of the wobble when doing the bottom. After more experience and taking a class from Trent Bosch, I definitely would try other methods first before investing in either a longworth or dourghnut chuck. I also have a Nova Cole Jaw which I bought for my midi lathe before upgrading to a full-size. It works well for smaller bowls and if you support the bowl with the tailstock while turning off the bottom. It is much easier to setup than the Doughnut chuck.

2. As for sanding I own the The Sanding Solution from The Sanding Glove site, a passive sanding method. It works extremely well. However, there are times when I need to do power sanding which I have done with a Harbor Freight variable speed angle drill and some mandrels I bought. I think the best solutions for power sanding include air driven die grinders. They are faster and more durable than electric drills or power sanders. I just don't have the proper air capability to make that practical. For low volume usage the electric drill will work well though.
 
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The mini lathe is pretty minimally powered for bowl coring. It can be done. For the Oneway system, most seem to prefer the coring tip from Mike Hunter tools rather than the Oneway version. If I was coring on a mini lathe, then I would go with the Woodcut system, and they have an older 2 blade system that you may be able to find used. Not sure if they have a 5/8 inch post for the mini lathe or not.

As for abrasives, I go with the blue discs from Vince Welch of Vince's WoodNWonders. I think Ken Rizza carries the same discs now, and he is Woodturner's Wonders. Those blue discs outlast every other disc I have ever used. The angle drill is the way to go for me.

By the '4 in 1 stone' do you mean the 4 in one grinding wheel? Ken's wheels are pretty popular though the only ones I have are from D Way. Ken does make them out of aluminum which is more light weight and better for the 1/2 hp grinders. I go heavy duty and get the 1 hp Rikon grinder for my steel wheels.

robo hippy
 

hockenbery

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i have a 1221. Great lathe for small NE bowls. if you round the ends you can easily get an 11.5x6 blank on the 1221 for a great looking oval bowl.
the white sap ring of the walnut is dramatic without the bark

i prefer jam chucks to the Longworth. Much quicker and works with thin walled bowls and NE bowls

i consider the 1221 too small of a lathe to core on.

regarding walnut
the white sap wood has a fairly short shelf life a week in the summer longer in winter.
This NE rim is better w/o bark HF had about a 3” thick white sap wood09BE15C9-2ABB-423C-8D96-DD1473173612.jpeg


sapwood a couple of weeks past it’s prime. This bowl is ok but white sapwood wood pop79E88A5E-0B21-40A1-BCE6-E783CFACAE8A.jpeg


this bowl is sweet gum but typical of what you can get from 10x5 blank 0CC47B97-7253-4FCE-A229-9CDE5B21AB28.jpeg
 
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Randy reminds me that not only does Ron Brown's Best sell a doughnut chuck (yet another work holding solution), but Ron has a doughnut chuck attachment for his version 2 Longworth combining the two holding techniques. If used it often. (What do you call a Longworth-doughnut chuck? ...wait for it... a long John!). I am not sure if the option is available in the 12" size, but another reason to look at the version 2, if you're buying a Longworth.
 
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Learn to jam chuck.....the other will collect dust
 

Roger Wiegand

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It's a very rare bowl that I make that could be jam chucked. NE bowls are, pretty much impossible to jam chuck unless you were to cut a straight-sided ridge down where the bowl makes a full circle. On bowls with a finished edge you can do it, but again it requires an edge geometry to hold on to the jam fixture that I would find way too constraining of my designs.

Much more flexible is using a friction drive where you hold the bowl between centers, with a piece of leather or silicone rubber to protect the inside. This lets you access almost all of the bottom and leave only a small nub to remove by hand.

For full access to the bottom to finish the inside surface of the foot, for example, you need a vacuum chuck or one of the other types discussed here.

I use jam chucks all the time for boxes and such where I can have a straight sides to make the "jam" connection; the only time I've done it for bowls was decades ago prior to the invention of (or at least the common access to) modern holding methods-- the main objection being the requirement for a straight segment at the inner or outer edge of the rim. I like curves too much for that. I don't want to have to be thinking about my holding method while shaping the rim. I'd rather sacrifice perfection of the bottom than have an awkward rim.

I'd also note that it often takes a piece of timber big enough to do something else useful with to make a jam chuck for a larger bowl.
 

hockenbery

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NE bowls are, pretty much impossible to jam chuck unless you were to cut a straight-sided ridge down where the bowl makes a full circle.
Another vocabulary issue!
You are talking about a rim jamb very different from the jamb Chuck Used against the bottom of the bowl.
this is great technique for delicate bowls and platters. Most NE bowl turners use this technique in demo.
i prefer it to a vacuum Chuck for delicate bowls. ( never cracked one with a jamb Chuck)



here is the ease with which this style jamb Chuck works for NE bowls. May be what you call a friction drive.

Jamb chuck used here has a concave face ans a rounded rimF6E96591-5009-4D8C-BAA1-94610456B3BF.png
bowl is placed against it with folded paper towel as a cushion9F88C255-1292-417A-BB63-64A310B3EA15.png


Tailstock us brought upE6C0F9A4-8689-452F-88E4-6AC05345A6A7.png

used here to turn a footless bowl768262E8-E432-48F2-A8A9-620060AD75C1.png

you can see the whole process in the video in the thread on NE bowl from a crotch.
 
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Hi Brad - I've used the Jet 1221 a lot and really enjoyed it! I bought the oneway coring system and had a very hard/slow time coring with it due to power. I think you could get into it with the right patience but for the time it would take I lost interest and got rid of the system. If you did not have good access to wood it would make more sense...if you have good access to wood I think you'd feel better about skipping the coring system.
There is a guy on Etsy who makes some nice looking longworth chuck kits. He CNCs the two disks from plywood and you do the rest. Affordable and really nice looking too.
 
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Hi Brad - I've used the Jet 1221 a lot and really enjoyed it! I bought the oneway coring system and had a very hard/slow time coring with it due to power. I think you could get into it with the right patience but for the time it would take I lost interest and got rid of the system. If you did not have good access to wood it would make more sense...if you have good access to wood I think you'd feel better about skipping the coring system.
There is a guy on Etsy who makes some nice looking longworth chuck kits. He CNCs the two disks from plywood and you do the rest. Affordable and really nice looking too.
I think robo hippy mentioned this...but if you put the Hunter Korpro cartridge on a Oneway coring system - you CAN core with it on your lathe. I have cored with it literally using ONE finger touching the Oneway handle, and extremely light pressure. I sent the video to Mike Hunter. Not the greatest, but clearly shows just how sharp and easily it cores. It truly makes the Oneway into a different tool.
 

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I think it is useful to distinguish the jam chuck, as used in the traditional sense, from a "friction drive" for want of a better name, which is what hockenberry is describing (and yes, I'm completely on board that friction drives (or whatever you want to call them) are great, and incredibly useful-- they are my most frequently used solution to this problem.

"Jam chuck" has meant something quite specific for a very long time. Calling something else by the same name just muddies the waters and makes it hard to communicate, like someone renaming an apple as a carrot.
 
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at least it's English....think Spanish French etc.....splitting hairs
 
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How quickly does your friend want those 10 walnut removed? Good sized? 2' dia? One tree will keep you busy for a long time. You got great advise to find a near by club. If your friend wants those trees down fairly soon, you could truly endear yourself as a new member by sharing some of your bounty. Many hands make light work, and mentoring in the wood lot can be as valuable as in the workshop.
 
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And last, I have absolutely lucked out and found 10 good sized Walnut trees that a guy needs cut down, so if it turns out I can get this very labor intensive job done I'll have wood for a good long time to come. Brings me to the question, what's the best way / procedures / time of year to fell a tree with the idea of keeping it's bark on through storage / drying and the turning process? Believe I've seen winter is the best time to fell but is say November weather in Kentucky good enough or should I wait more toward late Dec or Jan?
The ideal time to cut any tree and "keeping the bark on" is when the sap stops running or the tree is in it's dormant stage so I would say that you should get that information locally. The experience that I have had with walnut is that the heart wood is very resistant to rot but the sap wood will begin to rot and lose it's white color as soon as the wood begins to dry. The bark will also come loose so if your intension is to make natural edge bowls with the bark firmly attached then maybe a month is your storage time limit. I have an advantage here in the frozen north that I can store it longer when it is frozen.
 
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"Jam chuck" has meant something quite specific for a very long time. Calling something else by the same name just muddies the waters and makes it hard to communicate, like someone renaming an apple as a carrot.

You need to throw in the towel on this one Roger. Driving through friction by jamming the piece between another piece of wood and the TS is known widely as a jam chuck, regardless of definition years ago. Language changes - we don’t use “thee” and “thou” much these days.
 

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You need to throw in the towel on this one Roger. Driving through friction by jamming the piece between another piece of wood and the TS is known widely as a jam chuck, regardless of definition years ago. Language changes - we don’t use “thee” and “thou” much these days.
You're correct, no doubt. Still, as a lover of precision in language, I mourn one more loss in the battle to communicate clearly.
 

hockenbery

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You're correct, no doubt. Still, as a lover of precision in language, I mourn one more loss in the battle to communicate clearly.
the Woodturning dictionary needs to be written.

what size bar is a 1/2” bowl gouge?
most say 5/8” but the 1/2” answer is getting more popular.

we have come close to universal adoption of the SRG
 

Roger Wiegand

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So when I use a spur drive in spindle turning I should now also refer to it as a jam chuck? It hurts my brain to think about saying that when you are turning a bowl between centers you have it in a chuck, of any sort. The dictionary definition of "chuck" is sufficiently broad, I suppose to cover the case ie "a device for holding a workpiece in a lathe or a tool in a drill", yet neither the friction plate nor tailstock, by itself, is holding anything.

Sorry, but I'm obsessed (and I'll stop now).
 
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You need to throw in the towel on this one Roger. Driving through friction by jamming the piece between another piece of wood and the TS is known widely as a jam chuck, regardless of definition years ago. Language changes - we don’t use “thee” and “thou” much these days.
I will have to disagree with you and agree with Roger on this one. ;)

When a piece is mounted on a jam chuck it will stay there without the use of the tailstock.
When the tailstock is used and it is applying pressure against another surface (another piece of wood or whatever) it is then driven by friction. If you remove the TS there is nothing to hold the piece.
 
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You need to throw in the towel on this one Roger. Driving through friction by jamming the piece between another piece of wood and the TS is known widely as a jam chuck, regardless of definition years ago. Language changes - we don’t use “thee” and “thou” much these days.
I think Roger can keep his towel! Driving through friction is not jamming.
 
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I will have to disagree with you and agree with Roger on this one. ;)

When a piece is mounted on a jam chuck it will stay there without the use of the tailstock.
When the tailstock is used and it is applying pressure against another surface (another piece of wood or whatever) it is then driven by friction. If you remove the TS there is nothing to hold the piece.

I am speaking to the very wide acceptance and use, obtained from articles and videos publicly available, and not what some individuals judge to be definitions. Language changes whether we accept or not. Stress out over it or just accept it and throw in the towel. I’ve had similar discussions with my son about football - what various formations and positions are called today vs back in the day, same thing different names.
 
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I think Roger can keep his towel! Driving through friction is not jamming.

Well, any method where the piece is held in place without the TS, ie a rim jam chuck, actually works by friction of wood on wood. The “press fit” is there to provide sufficient friction. A method using the TS to jam the work against another surface works by friction. Easy to debate both are friction and/or jam chuck methods. Also easy to understand why the terminology gets swapped about. An individual can have their definition but the world won’t care.
 
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I can see it now @ the next AAW Symposium: “Defining jamb vs friction turning 101”…….

I suppose it is a good thing that we are woodturners who - like ANY group of like interested individuals….. pervert the use and definitions of words to fit the instance of usage.

Said differently - it is semantics more than a clearly definable difference. It is definition and use of terms that individuals and groups thereof have adopted to fit their need.

Sometimes I actually jam a piece of wood on the lathe with a jamb chuck whilst having a peanut butter and jam sandwich. Unless the office calls and I get all jammed up in something.Then, being distracted, I create a nasty catch by jamming the gouge into the wood….

English: the universally accepted language of NO one standard anything!
 
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Holy cow this thread really grew some legs since I got it going! Good to see it, now to get to all the info.

Tim thanks for all the good advice. Not a single word wasted. I'll summarize by saying I've taken in every word and yes I have found a local woodturners club, just last week. Luckily the BAW, like you mentioned, met for the first time since the virus started and I was able to get in contact just a couple days before their meeting. I've gotten in with some of the central members of the group who are really starting me off in the right direction. And yes of all the advice you could give, finding a local turner's group is by far my next best step far as guidance is concerned.

Thanks for the Steve Worcester link Dave. First I've seen that one. Have to check em out.

Thanks for the chuck advice Mark. But now that I've been directed to frugalvacuumchuck.com that's probably the direction I'll head, instead of spending $ on a cole or longworth, and then still getting the vacuum chuck anyway. Any advice on the quality offered at the frugal vacuum chuck link.

Thanks for the chuck and sanding advice Randy. I'll probably go with making myself some jam chucks for now but then finish by bypassing the cole and longworth chucks altogether and get the vacuum chuck mentioned above. Any opinion on frugal vacuum chuck's equipment?

Thanks for your advice too Reed. Based on lots of advice, and considering how much I've yet to learn, I'm just gonna put the idea of coring on the back burner for now. I'll get back to it again after my learning curve isn't so steep. Oh, the 4 questions w 1 stone was just a reference to saying 2 birds with 1 stone. Got 4 questions in on 1 thread.

Thanks hockenberry, especially for the good advice on bowl sizes for my 1221. I've made myself a circle cutting jig for the bandsaw so hopefully I'll be able to maximize my little lathe, which I've seen told has a 12.5" swing. Soo (did not know this), Walnut sap wood turns darker after it's harvested, and more quickly in the summer? Hmm, did not know this. Glad I do now though. That puts some pretty big brakes on wanting to harvest any more Walnut right away. Given your experience with Walnut and the Jet 1221 lathe, what diameter Walnut trunks/branches should I look for that are best suited to my lathe size?

Charlie, well said, thank you.

Thanks Roger, took it all in. Any opinion on the frugal vacuum chuck . com ?

Tony thanks for the advice to skip the coring for now. I believe I'll concentrate my efforts elsewhere until my skills get up to par. I'm thinking about going for the frugal vacuum chuck.com instead of spending money on a Longworth or Cole. Any opinion on their vacuum equipment?

I hear ya Mike I have definitely slowed down on my need for wood. Just like you said I'm getting advice from the local wood turners club so hopefully everyone can see something good come out of this little stand.

Thanks for the storage info on the Walnut. This is the first I'm learning the sap wood turns darker soon as it's harvested. Oh well, at least there seems to be an ok supply around these parts.
 

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Given your experience with Walnut and the Jet 1221 lathe, what diameter Walnut trunks/branches should I look for that are best suited to my lathe size?
depends on what you plan to make.
i would cut a few of the straight grained trunk sections about 3 feet long into spindle blanks. seal the endgrain stickers them and dry for a year or more.
3x3 ->boxes, balls, gavel head
2x2 -> finials, tool handles, balls
1.5x1.5 -> ornament finials, gavel handles
Pen blanks….


for NE bowls i would choose 5 to 10 inch rounds and cut the blanks 2” -3” longer than the diameter. This produces nice oval bowls.

for hollow forms like this one you can cut 11” diameter blanks from larger Diameter. To get sapwood around the wide part you would need a 11.5 or less diameter log.9F94389E-107E-4BBA-9ACA-49F766668D99.jpeg
 

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Any opinion on frugal vacuum chuck

It's good stuff. Good quality, reasonably priced pumps. And I personally like his "low-tech" approach to the chucks - easy to make/adapt your own. Being able to mount a vacuum chuck on my regular chuck is (for me) a good thing, and since there's no adapters etc to attach to the lathe, it's easy to move everything to another lathe when/if you upgrade.
 
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Ditto on Frugal. If I needed to replace my vacuum chuck system I would buy it again.

I prefer to make projects rather than make the stuff to make projects with, so I bought the ready to go package. His new 3 in 1 chuck system is very interesting, but at our last club meeting Bob told me he's having supply chain issues with that.
 
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