Acrylics versus dyes

[Michael Nathal]

Everyone I have noticed using colors to enhance figure have always followed the method outlined by Cindy Drozda (among others) where you apply a sequence of dyes with sanding in between applications. Now I see a recent article by Art Liestman in Woodturning Fundamentals, where he uses acrylic inks and acrylic airbrush paints instead of dyes. He makes the point that these paints are thin and a translucent, like dyes, but with a big advantage in better durability and light-fastness of the color.
This is a new concept for me, I think I will be trying it soon. I wonder if anyone else has tried it?

 

[hockenbery]

The transparent airbrush paints have been around a long time.
They give a similar look to dyes.
Here is a camphor ball sanded to 320, airbrushed opaque green, masked with the vine, sandblasted course ground glass, airbrushed with transparent yellow, airbrush with a transparent red.

The resulting background is yellow and orange to almost red

Dyes would bleed under the mask. So the airbrush was my choice.


Similar treatment on Chinaberry HF shows more grain

 

[Bill Blasic]

Through many years of testing, metal acid dyes have no equal (such as TransTint). I'm not panning acrylics as I don't have that much time into using them and I just can't believe that they could hold up in the sun as well as metal acid dyes. I will put them through a side by side test.

 

[Ric Taylor]

Dyes would bleed under the mask. So the airbrush was my choice.
View attachment 75339

Al, I use an airbrush to apply my dyes, which are mostly Dharma fabric dyes (very lightfast) and some TransTint. I have excellent control of the color application, and if I were to use a mask the dye would not bleed under the edge. The key is a buildup of light coats when using a mask.

 

[hockenbery]

Through many years of testing, metal acid dyes have no equal (such as TransTint). I'm not panning acrylics as I don't have that much time into using them and I just can't believe that they could hold up in the sun as well as metal acid dyes. I will put them through a side by side test.

Be sure to used the golden paints. Not all paints are equal.
from my research the golden paints are excellent in lightfastness as are the chestnut spirit stains.

Here are some of the testing golden does

Lightfastness Testing at Golden Artist Colors | Just Paint

While we often report on results from lightfastness testing, we have rarely paused to actually describe the process we follow. And let’s face it, for most people stating that our tests conform to ASTM D4303, Standard Test Methods for Lightfastness of Colorants Used in Artists’ Materials, does...

justpaint.org

 

[John Whitley]

which are mostly Dharma fabric dyes

OH, interesting! Are these Dharma’s Fiber Reactive Procion dyes? I’m mostly familiar with weak acid dyes for protein fibers (esp. silk), and which certainly aren’t suitable for dyeing wood.

 

[Mike Nish]

Al, I use an airbrush to apply my dyes, which are mostly Dharma fabric dyes (very lightfast) and some TransTint. I have excellent control of the color application, and if I were to use a mask the dye would not bleed under the edge. The key is a buildup of light coats when using a mask.

What finish did you apply over your dye? Those pieces look great!

 

[Richard Coers]

My belief is that there is more transparency to dyes than acrylics, so there will be applications for both. I use dyes. Recently parted with this vessel that had sanding between dye colors. One that I consider right at the top of my skill level. I turned it about 15 years ago, but had an oppurtunity while visiting with a patron. An offer of $500 felt better than having it sit on a shelf here at home.

 

[Ric Taylor]

from my research the golden paints are excellent in lightfastness as are the chestnut spirit stains.

Al, my experience is that Chestnut Spirit stains are an excellent product, but I stopped using them because they contain shellac. The shellac will build up in an airbrush and cause it to clog, and then it becomes necessary to completely strip down the airbrush for a thorough cleaning.

 

[Ric Taylor]

OH, interesting! Are these Dharma’s Fiber Reactive Procion dyes? I’m mostly familiar with weak acid dyes for protein fibers (esp. silk), and which certainly aren’t suitable for dyeing wood.

Yes the Dharma/Procion dyes are the correct ones. The names seem to be interchangeable. They were recommended to me by Ed Pretty years ago and once I tried them I never looked back.

 

[Ric Taylor]

What finish did you apply over your dye? Those pieces look great!

Thanks Mike. The burgundy piece is finished with a satin rattle-can lacquer. That piece was made with Aspen wood and done for a Texas A&M fan. The red piece is finished with a semi-gloss rattle-can lacquer. That piece was made with figured Big Leaf Maple. Both pieces were bleached prior to coloring.

 

[Holmes Anderson]

Do you spray the piece with dye on the lathe while it rotates? I have been using water-soluble and NGR dyes under film finishes on furniture, cabinets, and other flat work for many years - sometimes spraying and sometimes wipe-on, wipe-off - but I have never applied dye to a lathe-only project. If I was making turnings that wanted tinting, then I might try applying dye to the wood followed by layers of film finish tinted with dye to dial in color and depth all on the lathe. French polishing using lathe rotation? Shellac and lacquer seem like obvious choices of film finishes for lathe work because finishing the finish would be so easy. Just wondering if all the common flat-work finishing techniques are used on turnings too. Not many woodworkers spraying lacquer anymore, I think. My father is pushing 90 yo and he still finishes cabinets with lacquer sprayed at HP but that seems very old school. Are people spraying catalyzed lacquer on pieces turning on a lathe too?

 

[Richard Coers]

Al, my experience is that Chestnut Spirit stains are an excellent product, but I stopped using them because they contain shellac. The shellac will build up in an airbrush and cause it to clog, and then it becomes necessary to completely strip down the airbrush for a thorough cleaning.

Just soak the head of the air brush in a little container of denatured alcohol. I don't consider breaking down an air brush as a big deal since it's about the size of a fountain pen. It takes me less than 5 minutes to break it down and clean my air brush. That's a pretty small amount of time in the whole turning project. Don't you break down all your spray guns to clean them up?

 

[Steve Bonny]

Just soak the head of the air brush in a little container of denatured alcohol. I don't consider breaking down an air brush as a big deal since it's about the size of a fountain pen. It takes me less than 5 minutes to break it down and clean my air brush. That's a pretty small amount of time in the whole turning project. Don't you break down all your spray guns to clean them up?

Agreed, I always take mine apart and clean it at the end of a session, no matter what the medium. It's an easy 5 minute job. You will nearly always find medium stuck to the needle that needs removing.

 

[Ric Taylor]

Just soak the head of the air brush in a little container of denatured alcohol. I don't consider breaking down an air brush as a big deal since it's about the size of a fountain pen. It takes me less than 5 minutes to break it down and clean my air brush. That's a pretty small amount of time in the whole turning project. Don't you break down all your spray guns to clean them up?

Richard I have more than 50 years of experience with a variety of airbrushes. When using a shellac-based product for any length of time, a break-down and thorough cleaning of the airbrush is necessary. When using water-based or alcohol based products a breakdown is not necessary, just shoot water or alcohol through the brush and it is completely clean. For that reason, I will not use shellac products in my airbrushes. I see no reason to make my cleaning process longer than it needs to be or to have a product on my shelf that increases my workload.

As for cleaning my spray guns, I don't have any, they are not needed.