Brought my new lathe home today and as expected went right into putting it together. Now that I have a lathe on which you can adjust the head and tail to match I thought I'd give it a try. So far, using a spur drive and live spur I get points to math in the vertivle direction but the horizontal direction is slightly off. Is one mm enough off to have an effect on anything? Am I being too picky?
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Aligning Head and Tail Stock
- Thread starter Simoli
- Start date
Simoli said:
To properly align a lathe with a rotating headstock, you'll need a double-ended morse taper that fits both the headstock and tailstock tapers. Slight misalignment will not effect your turning, but it will put added stress on your machine bearings.
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Tsk, tsk, Mark. Using a double ended Morse taper is just begging for damage to the tapered sockets on both the headstock and tailstock. They can never be aligned closely enough vertically to make the double ended monster work. In my opinion, a double ended wooden Morse taper is a much better solution and not only that, it is FREE!
I am very surprised to read that Simoli can get the poinats to match in the vertical plane and can't in the horizontal plane since it ought to be the other way around. There are no provisions for making vertical adjustments -- you just hope that it comes from the factory already close. The horizontal plane is the only adjustment available where you loosen the locking lever on the headstock and then bump it until it lines up with the tailstock.
A misalignment of one millimeter is not bad for most things. The only place where it can be a problem is when doing something like turning a pen that is held in a rigid mandrel at the headstock and the tailstock point must fit into the outboard end of the mandrel. Sometimes there can also be problems when drilling depending on which direction you are doing the drilling from.
Bill
I am very surprised to read that Simoli can get the poinats to match in the vertical plane and can't in the horizontal plane since it ought to be the other way around. There are no provisions for making vertical adjustments -- you just hope that it comes from the factory already close. The horizontal plane is the only adjustment available where you loosen the locking lever on the headstock and then bump it until it lines up with the tailstock.
A misalignment of one millimeter is not bad for most things. The only place where it can be a problem is when doing something like turning a pen that is held in a rigid mandrel at the headstock and the tailstock point must fit into the outboard end of the mandrel. Sometimes there can also be problems when drilling depending on which direction you are doing the drilling from.
Bill
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Are you checking alignment before and after the tighten? Lots of time things move when you torque. My adjustable tailstock has a couple mm of slop, but I adjust for alignment - verified by the Biological impossibility demonstrator - in the direction of rotation, on the presumption that it'll get there anyway. I keep saying I'll dimple the block under the ways to take it out, but I know I never will.
Since I use the tailstock all the time even when bowl turning, to help me seat the chuck and get the piece to run true, I'm picky. But if absolute is achievable, why not get it accurate? Vertical problems, with apology to Bill, are usually solved by shims, though you hope it's a low headstock, so you can shim the least-moved component.
Since I use the tailstock all the time even when bowl turning, to help me seat the chuck and get the piece to run true, I'm picky. But if absolute is achievable, why not get it accurate? Vertical problems, with apology to Bill, are usually solved by shims, though you hope it's a low headstock, so you can shim the least-moved component.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I turned for a lot of years on a lathe with misaligned points. Didn't know any better. So obviously you can make a lot of stuff without having them perfectly aligned. Things change for the better when you do get one with everything aligned. Like Micheal almost all of my projects start out between centers. When you start cutting things and reassembling them the center alignment becomes more critical.
Horizontal alignment shouldn't be that hard to achieve. If you've loosened all bolts and cleaned all surfaces you should be able to align it. sometimes they do shift when tightened. I found the double end morse tapers were only handly to realign lathes that had rotating headstocks. I bought one but ended up drilling a hole where the headstock and bed join. Then I simply rotated the headstock and slid the shank end of the drill bit into the hole and tightened the headstock. Was fast and didn't need the tailstock to do it. This method will usually keep the headstock from moving when you tighten the lock down.
If for some reason you can't get everything aligned after tightening and cleaning then you may have to file or shim one edge of the headstock guides. I would do this cautiously and carefully because it's hard to go back.
Horizontal alignment shouldn't be that hard to achieve. If you've loosened all bolts and cleaned all surfaces you should be able to align it. sometimes they do shift when tightened. I found the double end morse tapers were only handly to realign lathes that had rotating headstocks. I bought one but ended up drilling a hole where the headstock and bed join. Then I simply rotated the headstock and slid the shank end of the drill bit into the hole and tightened the headstock. Was fast and didn't need the tailstock to do it. This method will usually keep the headstock from moving when you tighten the lock down.
If for some reason you can't get everything aligned after tightening and cleaning then you may have to file or shim one edge of the headstock guides. I would do this cautiously and carefully because it's hard to go back.
Tsk, Tsk?
Bill, have to differ.
Poolwood (now Silverdrive) recommended that very method for their lathes because of the rotating headstock. Other lathe makers tried the rotational detent method, but that always got sloppy over time if used too much. The double taper is quick, easy, and painless so long as, as Simoli noted in the original question, the points are aligned in the vertical axis.
A caveat is, however, appropriate. Both tapers and their inserts must be checked for dirt, galls, or machining defects and cleaned or corrected. Even a small bit of score or grit in one of the tapers will throw things off. The turner should carefully check and clean the tapers often and always before inserting a taper accessory. I think every lathe should be packed with a urethane taper cleaner such as Packard Tools sells. I had a very slight variance in my Stubby's points. After making sure that the bed and base were true, I discovered a small gall in the tailstock taper. I borrowed a taper handreamer from a local machine shop, took 4 turns to remove it, and the lathe has been precisely aligned ever since.
boehme said:
Bill, have to differ.
Poolwood (now Silverdrive) recommended that very method for their lathes because of the rotating headstock. Other lathe makers tried the rotational detent method, but that always got sloppy over time if used too much. The double taper is quick, easy, and painless so long as, as Simoli noted in the original question, the points are aligned in the vertical axis.
A caveat is, however, appropriate. Both tapers and their inserts must be checked for dirt, galls, or machining defects and cleaned or corrected. Even a small bit of score or grit in one of the tapers will throw things off. The turner should carefully check and clean the tapers often and always before inserting a taper accessory. I think every lathe should be packed with a urethane taper cleaner such as Packard Tools sells. I had a very slight variance in my Stubby's points. After making sure that the bed and base were true, I discovered a small gall in the tailstock taper. I borrowed a taper handreamer from a local machine shop, took 4 turns to remove it, and the lathe has been precisely aligned ever since.
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Yep, I am aware of that solution, but it is not very practical for headstocks that rotate and slide without doing some actual real work that involves removing the headstock to bond some shimstock brass to the underside. It falls in the same catrgory as your plans to dimple the block under the ways. Once you have identified the problem and developed a solution, no further action is required.MichaelMouse said:
Bill
What hasn't been mentioned is that the alignment is mostly effected by the structure of the bed and legs; most people don't realize how flexible cast iron and steel really are.
Simioli, you need to carefully check your bed for "dead" level status in both directions. This should be done "bare" and with some weight added to simulate a mounted blank with a good level placed and read at both ends of the lathe bed; two bubbles are better than one for this effort. Even a slight slant in either direction will result in torque on your bed and throw your points off. If your lathe is on a legset, make sure that the mating surfaces are clean and flat and that mounting bolts are tightened evenly. Leveling feet or shims in the leg/bed joints (or both) may be needed to get the bed trued up.
Simioli, you need to carefully check your bed for "dead" level status in both directions. This should be done "bare" and with some weight added to simulate a mounted blank with a good level placed and read at both ends of the lathe bed; two bubbles are better than one for this effort. Even a slight slant in either direction will result in torque on your bed and throw your points off. If your lathe is on a legset, make sure that the mating surfaces are clean and flat and that mounting bolts are tightened evenly. Leveling feet or shims in the leg/bed joints (or both) may be needed to get the bed trued up.
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After playing with the lathe a little more last night I figured out that I could just loosen the head stock and make the adjustment. Tonight I will be checking the bed flatness though as mentioned above, just not sure yet how to do that.
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Simoli said:
Pretty tough to do. I used a straightedge on mine and shimmed a couple of bolt points. Close enough for government work. Problem is, there may be enough variation in the bed at various points to throw it off when the position of the head/tailstock or the relative distance between them varies.
Best-fit straight line and, check at 90 degrees with winding sticks. Then, if your slack tailstock makes tiny circles on a spun piece of scrap, you can go back and realign.
How to Do That
Start by making sure the lathe is firmly set on the floor at all four points. Then take a 3' or longer level that you know to be true, and lay it at 90* across the headstock end. If it doesn't read dead level, loosen the mounting bolts on the legs and recheck the level. If you get the same reading, retighten those bolts and then raise the leg on the low side and recheck. If loosening those bolts DOES change the level's reading, you need to shim the leg/bed joint (I use copper flashing), retighten the bolts evenly, and recheck for level.
Now do the same for the other end of the lathe.
Once you have the lathe bed deadnuts at both ends, lay your level longwise on the bed and check for level that direction. If it's out, you need to carefilly raise or lower both legs on one end until its level. Lastly, recheck the front-to-back level on both ends to make sure they didn't change. Note here that end-to-end level is not as important for alignment as front-to-back, but having it all level both ways can't hurt.
Now eject the tailstock center, remove the spur drive from the headstock taper, and carefully inspect both the male and female surfaces for any defects or dirt. Clean them all. If you use any abrasive, be very sure to wipe or blow any grit off all four surfaces. Reinsert the center and spur and bring the points together with a minimum of extention on the tailstock quil. Tighten the headstock and tailstock bed locks, as well as the lock on the tailstock quill.
Hopefully, your points will now meet in both directions. If they don't, this being a new lathe, I would call your seller or the manufacturer. Good guys won't tell you it's "close enough"; they'll get you a machine that's aligned the way it's supposed to be.
Goood Luck
Simoli said:
Start by making sure the lathe is firmly set on the floor at all four points. Then take a 3' or longer level that you know to be true, and lay it at 90* across the headstock end. If it doesn't read dead level, loosen the mounting bolts on the legs and recheck the level. If you get the same reading, retighten those bolts and then raise the leg on the low side and recheck. If loosening those bolts DOES change the level's reading, you need to shim the leg/bed joint (I use copper flashing), retighten the bolts evenly, and recheck for level.
Now do the same for the other end of the lathe.
Once you have the lathe bed deadnuts at both ends, lay your level longwise on the bed and check for level that direction. If it's out, you need to carefilly raise or lower both legs on one end until its level. Lastly, recheck the front-to-back level on both ends to make sure they didn't change. Note here that end-to-end level is not as important for alignment as front-to-back, but having it all level both ways can't hurt.
Now eject the tailstock center, remove the spur drive from the headstock taper, and carefully inspect both the male and female surfaces for any defects or dirt. Clean them all. If you use any abrasive, be very sure to wipe or blow any grit off all four surfaces. Reinsert the center and spur and bring the points together with a minimum of extention on the tailstock quil. Tighten the headstock and tailstock bed locks, as well as the lock on the tailstock quill.
Hopefully, your points will now meet in both directions. If they don't, this being a new lathe, I would call your seller or the manufacturer. Good guys won't tell you it's "close enough"; they'll get you a machine that's aligned the way it's supposed to be.
Goood Luck