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Anybody know what's up with the Thompson tools site?

Sam Fleisher

Sam Fleisher

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It was acting weird earlier and I just went back again and it comes up that the account is suspended.

I see a couple of other places are selling now, maybe he's going that route?
 
My philosophy - when the mood strikes, never miss the opportunity to buy another Thompson tool. 😄 The steel is so good I’ll get extra scrapers, skews, and different sizes of plain round rods and grind them into specialty NRS and other tools.

Also, the turning experience can be enriched with more than one of the same tool. For example, I keep multiple 3/8” spindle gouges with identical grinds. When one gets dull I set it aside and put a sharp one into the handle. When they all get dull I stop, set up a Tormek jig, and sharpen them all. This does two things, 1) the dulled edge doesn’t interrupt my workflow, and 2) it’s quicker overall since it takes more time to set up the jig than it does to sharpen, so I only have to set it once for the set of gouges. (I realize others do things differently and that’s fine, but that’s the way I’ve done it for years.)

And if I buy another tool every time I see Doug I get another of his great zippered bags!!

Some of this comes from having no self control when it comes to good tools. It’s a personality defect I was apparently born with.
 
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John K Jordan said:
Also, the turning experience can be enriched with more than one of the same tool. For example, I keep multiple 3/8” spindle gouges with identical grinds. When one gets dull I set it aside and put a sharp one into the handle. When they all get dull I stop, set up a Tormek jig, and sharpen them all. This does two things, 1) the dulled edge doesn’t interrupt my workflow, and 2) it’s quicker overall since it takes more time to set up the jig than it does to sharpen, so I only have to set it once for the set of gouges. (I realize others do things differently and that’s fine, but that’s the way I’ve done it for years.)
Click to expand...

I don't have multiples of each grind, but I sharpen four gouges just about every time I sharpen. My jig is set up so that I can grind all of my 55 degree Irish grinds and my one Thompson gouge all on the same setting.
 
John K Jordan said:
My philosophy - when the mood strikes, never miss the opportunity to buy another Thompson tool. 😄 The steel is so good I’ll get extra scrapers, skews, and different sizes of plain round rods and grind them into specialty NRS and other tools.

Also, the turning experience can be enriched with more than one of the same tool. For example, I keep multiple 3/8” spindle gouges with identical grinds. When one gets dull I set it aside and put a sharp one into the handle. When they all get dull I stop, set up a Tormek jig, and sharpen them all. This does two things, 1) the dulled edge doesn’t interrupt my workflow, and 2) it’s quicker overall since it takes more time to set up the jig than it does to sharpen, so I only have to set it once for the set of gouges. (I realize others do things differently and that’s fine, but that’s the way I’ve done it for years.)

And if I buy another tool every time I see Doug I get another of his great zippered bags!!

Some of this comes from having no self control when it comes to good tools. It’s a personality defect I was apparently born with.
Click to expand...
I share your lack of self control. It extents further to Carter & Son tools, which are great tools too. If you look at the Stuart Batty tools website there are some very practical tools there (but yet to sell).
 
Kent Reisdorph said:
I bought a Thompson bowl gouge. Very nice. I believe the flute is U and not parabolic, which gave me a little pause. The handles are quite heavy, but in a good way.
Click to expand...

Like Jerry Glaser who proceeded him, Doug Thompson makes a V fluted bowl gouge as well as a traditional U fluted bowl gouge. Glaser was the first to make a deep fluted V bowl gouge, which he made in various steels and Doug has continued on with that and (correctly IMO) never described that flute as parabolic. The gouge that Doug makes for Lyle Jamieson with the wide flute is also a variation of the V flute, but again is not parabolic.

The parabolic flute was developed by Roy Child in the UK, although Roy never called it that. There are a number of bowl gouges that are now made with a parabolic flute profile.

There is some overlap in the edge profile that you can get from U, V and parabolic flutes, but each also has its own particular characteristics and uses. I use all three flute profiles, but I find the parabolic is the most versatile of the three.

On the 10V vanadium steel that Doug uses, my testing showed that it holds an edge for longer than M42, but there isn't a lot in it as most turners will resharpen when the gouge starts to cut poorly. Doug did also make a gouge in 15V for awhile and that performed better than both the 10V and M42....


Push cut test in v. hard wood l - screen shot.jpg​

Stuart Batty is currently bringing out gouges in 15V but I haven't had an opportunity to test one of those yet. The issue with 15V is that it is a more expensive steel than 10V or M42 and the interesting thing that Stuart is doing is laminating the 15V cutting edge steel to a cheaper substrate that will bring that component of the cost down, although there will also be the extra cost of the Batty gouge 'system', which you may or may not want.

Whether the additional durability of 15V is worth the overall additional cost is something that turners will have to decide.

My experience with 15V is that the 10V and M42 gouges seemed to cut sweeter until they suddenly give up (particularly so with M42), but the 15V keeps cutting on in a fashion for noticeably longer, which is fine for turning the very hard and abrasive woods we get down our way that take their toll on tool steels that need to be very frequently re-sharpened to keep cutting. If you are mostly turning medium and soft woods you may not require that advantage.
 
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I have both the Thompson 5/8 10V and 15V tools. If I did not have the 15V marked there is no way I would know which is which. They both stay sharp a very long time and for me I have to say I don't favor one over the other and my guess is that 99.5% of the time I am using 10V. If I were not coring I have had no problem roughing out bowls with no sharpening, for me they stay that sharp.
 
Neil S said:
The parabolic flute was developed by Roy Child in the UK, although Roy never called it that. There are a number of bowl gouges that are now made with a parabolic flute profile.
Click to expand...
When you folks are discussing parabolic flutes are you saying the flute is mathematically parabolic or that it looks similar to a parabolic curve? True parabolic curves could vary from wide open to more like narrow slots. which is best? Do any gouge makers have patents on their flute shapes?

How are gouges made? Ground from pre-hardened blanks or machined from annealed material then heat treated and ground? Do the various gouge makers do the manufacturing in house or have the gouges made elsewhere to their specifications?
 
Doug Rasmussen said:
When you folks are discussing parabolic flutes are you saying the flute is mathematically parabolic or that it looks similar to a parabolic curve? True parabolic curves could vary from wide open to more like narrow slots. which is best? Do any gouge makers have patents on their flute shapes?

How are gouges made? Ground from pre-hardened blanks or machined from annealed material then heat treated and ground? Do the various gouge makers do the manufacturing in house or have the gouges made elsewhere to their specifications?
Click to expand...

Some good questions there Doug.

I use the term parabolic to refer to flutes that are close to geometrically derived conics and yes the resulting curve can vary depending on the parameters as I discuss in my post...

Bowl Gouge Flute Descriptors

Bowl Gouge Flute Descriptors - Part 1 of 8 Warning: Long multi-post starter to this thread… and some folk may prefer to be spending their time out in their workshop turning wood than engaging in pedantic stuff about flute profiles and names… :~} I have become concerned about the sloppy and...
www.aawforum.org www.aawforum.org

The parabolic curve most frequently used in bowl gouges has a focal distance of about d=1. With that parameter it is very close to a catenary curve, but that is not a term that is so frequently used, so parabolic is better understood.

In that thread on bowl gouge flute descriptors I give some common examples of parabolic flutes in post #3 and #4. Some other examples of parabolic flutes are posted later in the thread by other forum members.

On which parabolic flute profile is best comes down to personal preferences and the task that it is being used for.

On how most gouges are made, the flutes are ground in 'annealed' bar stock before being hardening, tempering and other tricky stuff done like cryogenics treatment. Tool makers like Doug Thompson do all of that themselves. Some tool makers send out their tools for more specialised treatments like cryogenics and high polish finishes, but the core making stages are usually done inhouse. Any sharpening that is put on the tool for delivery is also done by the maker.

Some turners have signature tools made to their specifications but they are not tool makers as such but more tool designers.

Large firms like Sorby, Henry Taylor and Crown have always worked with well known turners like Richard Raffan and Glenn Lucas on the design of their propriety turning tools which then sometimes carry those turners names.

Stuart Batty seems to be going down a different pathway where he is both the designer and also the manufacturer, but I don't expect he will be anywhere to be found on the production line himself other than perhaps in the testing department. Jerry Glaser did something similar, but had more hands on in the engineering side of things during his time.
 
Thompson tools have a unique heat treating process especially made for the 10V and 15V steel including cryogenics.
 
My very first lathe tools were from Doug Thompson.
I have several of each size (bowl gouges mostly). Some have standard grind and some have the Ellsworth grind.
My go-to is the 3/4 Bowl gouge fitted into Doug's Lathe-Master handle. This gouge does the heavy lifting so to speak and it sets the stage for the detail work which follows.

Not only do Thompson's tools retain an edge, IMO his handles are superior. They don't roll when you place them on the ways.

Lathe Tools.jpg
 
Doug Rasmussen said:
there might some parabolic shapes that are universally thought of as best.
Click to expand...

Not sure about “universal” agreement. Henry Taylor Super flute is the standard so to speak.
In 1995 I took a week long Ellsworth class. He brought a class set of Henry Taylor gouges for us to use and he sold them to the students at his cost. Years later the Ellsworth signature gouges came out with similar flute design.

IMG_2151.jpeg

I have found that Jamieson Gouges made by Thompson takes the Ellsworth grind extremely well. I find it does the flute up cut on the leading edge of the wing extremely well. The sales description describes it as “parabolic”. Photo evidence offered on this forum suggest that it’s not parabolic. I have heard third hand that it is made by grinding a 3/4” Thompson flute in the 5/8” diameter bar.
Regardless it is my favorited gouge for use with the Ellsworth grind.
IMG_2152.jpeg
IMG_2153.jpeg
 
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hockenbery said:
I have found that Jamieson Gouges made by Thompson takes the Ellsworth grind extremely well. I find it does the flute up cut on the leading edge of the wing extremely well. The sales description describes it as “parabolic”. Photo evidence offered on this forum suggest that it’s not parabolic. I have heard third hand that it is made by grinding a 3/4” Thompson flute in the 5/8” diameter bar.
Regardless it is my favorite gouge for use with the Ellsworth grind.
Click to expand...

In his 2019 article in American Woodturner (see attached) David Ellsworth indicates his preference for the parabolic flute profile for his bowl gouge grind. I use my own version of his grind on some of my parabolic BGs but find that the V fluted gouges from Thompson, D-Way and Jamieson also take that grind quite well. The traditional U flutes don't for the reason that Ellsworth points out in his article.

On the Jamieson flute profile (I agree that it is not parabolic), here is a side by side of my Thompson 3/4" on the left and my Jamieson 5/8" (made by Doug) on the right with the image of its flute enlarged to be the same size as the Thompson 3/4" and I'm not fully convinced about the grinder profile being used is the same on both gouges, but others may see it differently.

T 3-4 flute left JT 5-8 right.jpg
​
And, yes, I also like the Jamieson, but then I like all of my gouges for one purpose or another...:)
 

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I worked in Doug's booth for close to 20 years and one thing I'll tell you is Doug knows this steel. For instance while at the shop one day I see a 3/4" 10V tool laying on the desk and I as what's up with this? Doug says "It's scrap, see that little mark? I say no way there's nothing wrong with it and he let me take it home. I get it home and sharpen it and take it to the lathe. As soon as I touch the wood in the cut that damn thing snaps right where that mark was! (I still use the tool below where it broke). Now when it comes to the Jamieson tool Doug used to sell a deep 5/8 V 10V bowl gouge and I probably have one here and that was what I thought the Jamieson so I asked Doug and he said it was its own grind not the deeper V so for me that is what it is, you can bet there is a specialized cutter for that tool.
 
Simeon Mackrides said:
Not only do Thompson's tools retain an edge, IMO his handles are superior. They don't roll when you place them on the ways.
Click to expand...

My garage floor is sloped pretty dramatically. My regular tools roll every time I set one down on the ways. I only have one Thompson gouge currently, but that one gouge keeps all my other gouges from rolling off the ways.
 
I've never used hand turning tools in the correct way. In high school the little turning we were allowed to do was more of a scraping action. Making tools for a 1930's automatic lathe was a totally different type of cutter not even remotely like a hand turning gouge. On CNC machines the cutters are small nose radius diamond shape carbide inserts that cut almost equally well with or against the wood grain. With the small nose radius the wood fibers don't have much force on them so they sever rather than bend away which would causes rough areas. In the CNC the rigidity of tool mounting not allowing any tool bounce is a big part too.

Watching a Jamieson video he showed the parabolic tool rotated about 45 degrees on the tool rest. He demonstrated how well it worked. It's not clear to me what segment of the parabolic curve is doing what part of the wood removal. I can almost see that part of the tool's curve might be severing wood fibers in a flat grained bowl while another part of the tool's curve is peeling away those severed fibers.

How many turners actually understand the cutting process at the tool's tip? Or is it more of a random process of finding a tool and technique that provides satisfactory results but may not be ideal?
 
Doug Rasmussen said:
I've never used hand turning tools in the correct way. In high school the little turning we were allowed to do was more of a scraping action. Making tools for a 1930's automatic lathe was a totally different type of cutter not even remotely like a hand turning gouge. On CNC machines the cutters are small nose radius diamond shape carbide inserts that cut almost equally well with or against the wood grain. With the small nose radius the wood fibers don't have much force on them so they sever rather than bend away which would causes rough areas. In the CNC the rigidity of tool mounting not allowing any tool bounce is a big part too.

Watching a Jamieson video he showed the parabolic tool rotated about 45 degrees on the tool rest. He demonstrated how well it worked. It's not clear to me what segment of the parabolic curve is doing what part of the wood removal. I can almost see that part of the tool's curve might be severing wood fibers in a flat grained bowl while another part of the tool's curve is peeling away those severed fibers.

How many turners actually understand the cutting process at the tool's tip? Or is it more of a random process of finding a tool and technique that provides satisfactory results but may not be ideal?
Click to expand...
The one that shocked me on its shearing cut is the Hannes grind. Surprises me every time how far you can come around the "wrong" side of the bevel and still have complete control.
 
Doug Rasmussen said:
How many turners actually understand the cutting process at the tool's tip?
Click to expand...

When beginning, I learned much of my turning from two books which I highly recommend, both for the explanations and the expert advice of practice exercises. One is Richard Raffan’s “Turning Wood” and the other is Mike Darlows “Fundamentals of Woodturning”. I am a strong believer in developing expertise by experimentation and practice, but when beginning I think these books helped me understand many things far more quickly (and let me better teach others).

Darlow is more technical (which seems to intimidate some people!) but his diagrams, photographs, and the detail he includes is incredibly enlightening. I think I have most of the books from both gentlemen, and buy extra copies of the two mentioned when I can find them at a good deal. I loan the extras to friends and students who show a drive to learn the depths as well as the basics of woodturning.

Out of my significant library of wood and woodturning books, I use some mostly for reference, but I’ve studied every page of both of the two books mentioned, multiple times.

(Ok, I confess to being a registered, card-carrying book freak. Some I’ve met say they seldom or never read but watch lots of YouTube videos - I think videos are great but I suspect that if all the info in one good book was included in a video, it would be 50 hours long. :) And it’s difficult to make notes in the margins and put sticky notes in a video to mark certain passages.)

JKJ
 
Doug Rasmussen said:
Watching a Jamieson video he showed the parabolic tool rotated about 45 degrees on the tool rest. He demonstrated how well it worked. It's not clear to me what segment of the parabolic curve is doing what part of the wood removal.
Click to expand...

It is often hard to see where the cut is taking place. The Ellsworth style grind is used to cut over a large percentage of the edge.

A feature of the Ellsworth grind is the change in bevel angle around the edge.
Tip 60 degrees
Off the nose 45 degree
Wing 30 degrees

This is the typical push cut it uses the part of the edge on nose either of the tip near the leading edge of the wing.
This is the “sweet spot” when you rotate the tool you feel it lock in.
trim.20AE976B-CB15-4A73-B9BF-793F3CFD4A35.gif

Two pull cuts. This uses the wing
Pull cut spindle w BG.GIF. 320 disc 2.GIF

A cut in the middle to start the pull cut
320 disc 3.GIF
 
Has anyone had an update from Thompson. Last time I ordered it was confirmed and shipped in 3 days I think. It's been over a week at this point and all I have is the confirmation that I paid through PayPal.
I'm not complaining at all, at all. I know it's a small operation and quality takes time and the tools are absolute perfection.... and I would wait months if necessary. I'm just wondering if he was away, sick, or anything like that. I know the half inch spindle gouges are sold out everywhere so maybe that might be delaying it.
 
Oh wow! I live in Jupiter. That's great news! Shipping will be cheap and fast.
But sadly the hurricanes really hurt the west coast and we got some powerful tornadoes unlike anything we've really ever seen over here on the east coast.
I capitalized though. I have enough Cuban mahogany to last a lifetime. I only just sealed the ends. Haven't really had time to do anything else yet. So many trees came down, sad but I'm glad I got them. Better than them going to the dump.
Do you know whereabouts he moved? I would be willing to drive as crazy as that sounds.
 
The tools are made in Cleveland. When there is a show Doug flies home and then drives to the event. To the best of my knowledge the tools are still shipped from Cleveland.
 
Andrew Hobbs said:
Has anyone had an update from Thompson. Last time I ordered it was confirmed and shipped in 3 days I think. It's been over a week at this point and all I have is the confirmation that I paid through PayPal.
I'm not complaining at all, at all. I know it's a small operation and quality takes time and the tools are absolute perfection.... and I would wait months if necessary. I'm just wondering if he was away, sick, or anything like that. I know the half inch spindle gouges are sold out everywhere so maybe that might be delaying it.
Click to expand...
Hi Andrew, I spoke to Doug last week. As already mentioned, he is in Florida. He has 4 folks handling the business for him. Shipping etc. He seems to be in very good spirits, but is like all of us dealing with stuff. I did and am still going through what you went through, ordered and then it was commo black out for some time. That’s what led to me talking with him. Supply and demand plus limited help I suppose.
 
So I should have written this a while ago but I spoke to him as well. He was in great spirits for sure. Apparently there were a few days of orders missed when his employee "allegedly" may or may not have had their hand in the till as they say. But he's back on track. Such a shame as with my interaction with him and what he said he treats his employees extremely well.
I was really surprised when he answered first ring and spoke to me for 15 min, answering some probably stupid questions that he's answered 1 million times before! I loved his tools and they are the only high end steel I've purchased and I don't think I'll buy anything else after trying most other companies.
 
Same question as before. Is Doug out of action?

Phone voicemail is full. Text is unanswered. Email contact from the website doesn't work.
A buddy was wanting to order a scraper but they're all out of stock and was wondering what the time frame was going to be.
 
Lyle Jamieson said:
Thanks for the mention, Al
Click to expand...
Lyle, I’ve purchased your hollowing system and the bowl gouge made by Doug and love them both. Is Thompson able to keep you stocked on gouges?
It is becoming concerning that phone, text and email goes unanswered by Doug. I own several of his gouges also but starting to think I may need to change to a different gouge.
Can he not have someone at the shop answer phone calls or emails? I ask this to you since you may be able to contact him since he supplies your gouge and handle.
I’m getting close to needing another 1/2” bowl gouge but considering switching to another company.

I’ve talked with Doug several times in the past but unable to get any response for what seems like a 8-12 months.
 
David Wyke said:
Lyle, I’ve purchased your hollowing system and the bowl gouge made by Doug and love them both. Is Thompson able to keep you stocked on gouges?
It is becoming concerning that phone, text and email goes unanswered by Doug. I own several of his gouges also but starting to think I may need to change to a different gouge.
Can he not have someone at the shop answer phone calls or emails? I ask this to you since you may be able to contact him since he supplies your gouge and handle.
I’m getting close to needing another 1/2” bowl gouge but considering switching to another company.

I’ve talked with Doug several times in the past but unable to get any response for what seems like a 8-12 months.
Click to expand...
Doug is still active in the tool business and symposium circuit. When he travels the communications get sidelined. I have never run out of my bowl Gouges. My gouge is made to my specifications. The Jamieson 1/2 inch (5/8 Diameter) bowl gouge is only available from me, and I have stock.
 
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