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Are there optimum techniques

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May 1, 2019
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Location
Exeter, NSW, Australia
Conflicting Beliefs by Mike Darlow



It’s popularly believed that different techniques suit different turners. Here are three examples which illustrate that belief:

1. Keith Rowley in the New Edition of his book Woodturning: A Foundation Course describes three methods for cutting coves in axially grained workpieces. He then explains the fourth method that he uses before suggesting “you try all the above methods and settle for the one that suits you.”

2. John Kelsey in reviewing the first edition of my book Sharpening Woodturning Tools (SWT) in the February 2024 American Woodturner (AW) wrote “And thus Darlow himself is both the strength and the weakness of this book. Practices he knows and does himself, he understands and can explain to a remarkably fine degree. What he doesn’t do himself, he judges to be suboptimal. This reflects his core belief that there is indeed an optimum way of doing everything, and anything else is substandard, to be disregarded. But in fact–and I have seen this over and over again in my long career as a writer and editor—every adept craftsperson operates within a coherent system wherein all the parts fit smoothly together. An element considered in isolation might not make sense, but in context, it works perfectly well . . . for that craftsperson. Optimum for you is not necessarily optimum for me.”

John Kelsey is incorrect to state that “anything else is substandard, to be disregarded.” I am keenly interested in all the conflicting techniques promoted because as SWT demonstrates, I regard part of my role as a woodturning teacher to examine and rate the conflicting techniques for hobby woodturners who may not have the time or the knowledge to do so themselves. John is, however correct to state that I believe that there is a suite of woodturning techniques which is optimum for all those without significant mental and physical handicaps who wish to turn as well as they reasonably can.

3. The American Association of Woodturners journal American Woodturner currently promotes three conflicting sets of sharpening angles: by George Hatfield, by Alan Lacer, and by Dennis Belcher. However the journal gives no guidance about which set to adopt, and thus confuses rather than helps its members.

The attraction of the belief that different techniques suit different turners is that it allows those who promote different techniques to both avoid having to substantiate their techniques’ superiority over conflicting techniques, and avoid having to cooperate with others to continually improve and seek a consensus on the techniques which should be taught. And if questioned, these promoters can always fall back on the excuse “it works for me”, what I have called the Frank Sinatra syndrome. The beauty of this belief is that the only people who suffer by being confronted with a mass of conflicting and mostly suboptimal advices are the amateur woodturners who finance woodturning teachers, suppliers and woodturning’s media.

So what is my evidence that the belief that different techniques suit different turners is wrong?

1. No promoter of the belief has been able to or even attempted to explain which innate differences between turners which would cause different techniques to be optimum for different turners. If these innate differences are unknown, how is a turner to correctly choose or be advised which of the alternative and conflicting techniques to adopt?

Terry Martin was correct in his letter in the June 2025 AW to point out that different turners have different natural turning abilities. But my experience is that almost all who wish to become competent will if taught what I believe are the optimum techniques achieve competence in them. Obviously there are a few who are seriously handicapped, and for whom special techniques are optimum. There are also many turners who aren’t prepared to commit to learning to turn as well they reasonably can, and for whom “softer” techniques are therefore optimum. These techniques are however less efficient, usually involve more sanding, and restrict the vocabulary of forms which can be turned.

2. If two turners take a tool with an identical edge and present it to and traverse it along a similar workpiece, the results will be identical. Innate personal factors make no difference. Therefore turners who desire to turn efficiently and to possess the largest turning vocabulary (and why wouldn’t they?), should adopt the optimum techniques.

Why is the belief that different techniques best suit different turners so popular?

1. The woodturning media is reluctant to publish objective criticism and comparisons of techniques, particularly of techniques promoted by established contributors.

2. The norm is that today’s turning teachers are largely self-taught or taught by teachers who were largely self-taught. With the absence of some central authority (not that I’m suggesting there be one), there’s little pressure to cooperate to achieve a consensus on which techniques are optimum and how they could be improved. Instead teachers commonly take the approach “I turn using these techniques because they work for me. Therefore you should use them too.” However it’s unlikely that such techniques have been rigorously compared with the alternatives.

3. The support given to the belief that different techniques suit different turners by establed turners. For example, on page 65 of issue 395 of Woodturning magazine Richard Findley wrote “professional production turners, all of whom use a skew extensively, all opt for a different version.” I suggest that the adoption of these different skews was mainly because these turners were apprenticed to different master turners, not because these British production turners have different innate qualities.

4. With the decline in trade woodturning, teaching is now focussed on short, project-based courses for hobbyists. The content of these courses is therefore unlikely to be stringently vetted. And although I guesstimate that at least 80% of the turning produced annually are spindle turnings (most turned on automatic lathes), the focus of teaching seems to be on turning bowls and other vessels for which the techniques are typically easier while the products are typically less useful.

5. Many turners have already achieved competence in suboptimal techniques. Whether they are prepared to put in the effort to upgrade their techniques to the optimum is their choice. It is a choice which would be unnecessary if turning teachers all taught the optimum techniques, and if the woodturning media promoted them.

6. It is impossible to quantify the differences in efficiency (I can think of no other single relevant criterion) between alternative techniques for performing the same operation. But if it were, the difference would have to be, say, at least 20% before differences become realisable through trials. However as proved in SWT, objective analysis can often differentiate between competing techniques which are much closer together. And if for a particlular operation the difference in efficiency between the optimum technique and the next-best were only about 5%, shouldn’t turners be able to grab that benefit?

The belief that there is a suite of optimum techniques is not narrow. For example for bowl turning the optimum techniques will vary according to the turner’s objectives. The optimum technique for sanded bowls required to be produced as rapidly as possible is different to that for bowls which won’t be sanded. And although bowls are best turned outboard, the optimum technique for those who have to turn bowls inboard is different.

I’ll conclude by repeating a student’s quote from Bruce Boulter’s book Woodturning in Pictures: “you know, it is much more simple to do it the right way.”

Mike Darlow, Aug 2025.
 
There is not a standard "right way" that suits each and every person. I have in my shop right now 7 different ways to sharpen the same tool, they all work but I have chosen just 1 that I like the best. Not because there is a standard but because "I like it". This comment to me is just ridiculous:
2. If two turners take a tool with an identical edge and present it to and traverse it along a similar workpiece, the results will be identical. Innate personal factors make no difference. Therefore turners who desire to turn efficiently and to possess the largest turning vocabulary (and why wouldn’t they?), should adopt the optimum techniques.
Learning to sharpen a tool from anyone is going to be bent by the fact that they believe their way is the best way. In my shop they learn that there are many ways to sharpen a tool and there is no "right way", it's your way! Optimum techniques will never ever be the same for each and every person, that is an impossibility.
 
Yeah , I agree with Bill.. If there's only one optimal technique , then why are there so many highly successful and collectible artists that use completely different techniques? Some of the more visible differences are like Batty (use your arms and extra long tool handles for tool control) vs perhaps someone like Richard Raffan (Tuck the tool in close and use your body weight and move from the knees and hips for tool control) I suspect Darlow's gonna be in a bit of a minority here...
 
And if for a particlular operation the difference in efficiency between the optimum technique and the next-best were only about 5%, shouldn’t turners be able to grab that benefit?
Speaking as a relative newbie with no aspirations of going pro or doing production work:
If an instructor had a rigid focus on enforcing "optimal," it would suck more than 5% of the fun out of this hobby for me.
 
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I will watch a demo, go home and play around with what I saw, and adapt my techniques to what I saw. "All of God's children are different, and some of us are more different than others!" I have to explore and experiment, just how I am wired.

robo hippy
 
Their may be optimal techniques but all that really matters is did you make the piece you wanted. Not how you got there. Some of my best pieces were built when I had terrible tool control and carving skills. Patience and persistance is all that's really needed.
 
I've made a lot of comparisons between woodturning and golf. Anyone can learn the rules and basics, but everyone's learning curve in the pursuit of perfection will be a little different. Some will stick with it and develope their own style, while some will give it up and move on. Some just have a natural ability, while others need to work at it more. The more time spent practicing and getting instruction elevates your skills and enjoyment. Repeatability and consistency are key.
 
I spent over 30 years in process optimization in both manufacturing and financial services industries. The mantra was always “there is one current best way. If you think you have a better way, let’s change the standard so everyone uses the new best way”. Another big one was "Without standards, there can be no improvement”.

I get where you are coming from.

There are two problems with defining an optimal technique for wood turning.

The first problem is defining the inputs and outputs. The optimal technique for making a magic wand out of wet pine will be very different from the optimal technique for making a 24” platter out of lignum vitae. The optimal technique for making a bowl for daily use will be different if it’s for a museum.

The second problem is defining what you want to optimize. In business, it was generally cost, quality, and lead time. In this hobby, enjoyment is most important for many of us. This is where it gets really dicey trying to define optimal. Kind of like trying to define an optimal vacation. Some like Disneyland, some prefer hiking in the mountains.

So to summarize, I do believe there is an optimal technique for everything as long as you are controlling all the variables. You, in your shop, for a particular project, and type of wood. Change any one of those variables and optimal changes.
 
Thank you Mike Novak for taking the trouble to thoroughly read and consider my thread.
There are some tens of optimum techniques, in part because of different objectives and differences in the equipment which can be accessed.
Turners are free to use whatever techniques they like. But by using optimum techniques you'll be able to turn what you have designed faster and with greater certainty. What's wrong with that?
Bill Blasic has seven different ways to sharpen the same tool, but has chosen the one he likes the "best". High-profile turners recommend sharpening angles for skews between 20 and 55 degrees. Why the differences? Why should the "best" for Bill Blasic be different to the "best" for other turners?
 
Mike I assume that you are the Mike Darlow that has written books and made videos (most of which I have). I have also had here in my shop or studied with at least 20 pro turners. Now do I turn like any of them? I turn with parts of them. I have learned and balanced their teachings and use what works for me. For me there is not nor will there ever be an optimum technique. Each piece of wood that I use will always present things that I have to adapt to get the desired results. The one and only optimum thing in my turning journey is my gouges and my grinder. When all these years of hosting hands on with different pros I had grinders for use to all those who attended but my personal grinder was and is only used by me. The grinder and the two CBN wheels, the Vector Grind Fixture and my Thompson Lathe Tools. It's optimized because nothing ever moves, everything is always the same. But it ends there as I may change what handle I'm using on any given tool or a host of variables. Mike I would never call you Mr. Excitement but your books and videos have given me insight and of course knowledge. I just cannot ever be button holed into believing that there would ever be the best way to do one thing for everybody.
 
Kent,

I can’t quit remember this one, but it was something like “if two experts give conflicting opinions, assume they are both correct “. This gets back to what are the assumptions?
 
Thank you Mike Novak for taking the trouble to thoroughly read and consider my thread.
There are some tens of optimum techniques, in part because of different objectives and differences in the equipment which can be accessed.
Turners are free to use whatever techniques they like. But by using optimum techniques you'll be able to turn what you have designed faster and with greater certainty. What's wrong with that?
Bill Blasic has seven different ways to sharpen the same tool, but has chosen the one he likes the "best". High-profile turners recommend sharpening angles for skews between 20 and 55 degrees. Why the differences? Why should the "best" for Bill Blasic be different to the "best" for other turners?
Well we head back into techniques here, I'd guess - For turner A, who likes to turn spindles with a skew and FOR THAT PERSON his Lathe, his physical abilities, and his preferred sharpening angle all have a hand in relating to his particular optimal technique, and turns out amazingly beautiful Museum quality artwork.. But if Turner B was to adopt turner A's techniques turner B might not be able to produce very good quality work, so then turner B tries a different technique, finds it slightly better, changes his bevel angles and tool rest height (maybe his arm length or range of motion is different) and then discovers he can do even better using a spindle gouge , and suddenly turner B is producing equivalently amazing and beautiful museum quality work with a completely different technique. So who's technique is best? I'll reiterate, there's no one single optimal technique for all turners.
 
I will answer this by making a comparison with cooking. If you were to search for a recipe for Lasagna you will find published online and on books over 2 million different recipes. If you forget about exact measurements etc they are all only slight variations of about 5.
If I am told that 40 degrees is the best grinding angle, and I get 38 degrees. I don't think I will notice any difference when I turn. There are many ways to do things, but they are often more similar than you realize.
 
If you're a new turner standing in front of a lathe with a tool in your hands for the first time you'll definitely benefit from a teacher showing you what they consider to be the optimum techniques. But as you gain experience you'll find that the term "optimus techniques" includes infinite options, all of which are optimum techniques.
 
Turning is relatively simple. It’s presenting an edge to and traversing it along rotating wood. If there is an optimum technique for a turning activity, almost all who are taught that technique and desire to replicate it can, exactly. Hair colour, body mass index, limb lengths, etc. do not prevent that replication. And unlike the taste of different lasagna recipes, the results are usually comparable by trial and/or by analysis.

Those who disagree with me won’t have read my eighth woodturning book Sharpening Woodturning Tools (SWT) which shows that many of the techniques promoted by well-known turners in recent decades, including me, are suboptimal. If the penalties of using suboptimal techniques could be quantified, some might only be 5% or 10%, but wouldn’t you be angry if your turning was so penalized merely because your teacher didn’t care enough to try to teach the optimum techniques known at the time.

A simple example. Table 1.1 in SWT lists the tool sharpening angles recommended in 33 books. Since 1957 sixteen authors recommend 45 degrees for roughing gouges. I challenge those who disagree with my belief to sharpen half a roughing gouge’s edge to 45 degrees and half to 30 degrees. Cutting is perceptibly easier with the latter. Also what is not easily measured is that if the 30-degree edge is honed, it needs sharpening less often that the 45-degree edge whether honed or not. So all those teachers who have promoted 45 degrees have unknowingly, but unnecessarily, penalized their students. Is this something which should continue?

The current situation is that as long as a technique isn’t unsafe, it isn’t criticized. If my belief becomes accepted, learners will become better turners, and there should arise a combined effort to continually improve the optimum techniques and banish the suboptimal ones.

Thanks, Mike Darlow
 
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