Beall buff system, seeking advice, tips, whatever....

[Odie]

Ladies and Gentlemen.....

I'm currently putting together an order for the Beall buffing system. I will be getting the three large cloth wheels and some small round buffs for interior of bowls.

Is the motor arbor adaptor that's supplied with the three large (bowl exterior) buffing wheels the same one that works with the smaller round (bowl interior) buffs? If so, I won't have to order it because it's supplied with the larger kit.

The interior buffs are available in three sizes.....2", 3", and 4" diameter. I'm unsure of which size to get, but I think the 4" would be best for me. I seldom make bowls with an interior opening smaller than 4" dia, and I'd say the majority of my bowls are in the 6" to 12" range. Should I reconsider getting the 4" for any reason I haven't thought of yet?????

Although I will be ordering the #2 Morse taper mandrel for lathe use (as a back up), I intend to mount everything on a pedestal mounted 1725rpm motor I already have. I'm not sure what the horsepower rating of the motor is, but I believe it's no less than 1/2hp.

I see the three station mandrel, but plan to mount the buffing wheels singly on the pedestal motor. Other than the obvious need to change wheels, I don't see any particular advantage to the long mandrel.....particularly since I'm planning on mounting the buffs on the pedestal motor anyway.

What is the service life of these buffing wheels?

For those of you already using the Beall system, I would appreciate any comments, suggestions, advice, tips, whatever, you'd care to offer.

Thank you....

....odie

Here's some links to the Beall.....
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=5184
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=2036

 

[Griesbach]

odie,

I use the bowl buffs in 3" and occasionally 2" with a #2MT mandrel on the lathe and see no reason this would not work on your dedicated buffing setup. FYI a little carnuba goes a long way.

Like your lathe table idea also.

 

[Jack Savona]

odie, I use the Beall wheels a lot, the first two before finishing and all three after. Often wish I had a freestanding motor so I didn't have to undo/redo my lathe setup.

In answer to your questions: I would agree about not getting the 3-wheel mounted system since you would find limited maneuverability doing larger pieces. I would perhaps reconsider the 3" buffs, if only for the fact that you may do a smaller diameter, or a funnel shape, and not have a way of buffing the inside bottom. That would be very noticeable to sight and touch. After about two years, I just got a new tripoli wheel because it 'shrank' in size faster than the other two, probably because its stiffness is more aggressive. Bowl buffs use the same mandrel as the wheels.

Here are a few suggestions for when you get them. If you use the mandrel for the lathe, use a threaded draw-bar to keep the mandrel from spinning out. DAMHIKT. Identify your buffs with numbers or dots so you don't mistakenly use the wrong wheel. DAMHIKT. I assume you've seen the Beall video on the Woodcraft site.

You should see a noticeable difference in your finished work. Enjoy!

Jack Savona
Kennebunkport, Maine

 

[Brian Hahn]

I've got the 8" buffs and the 4" bowl buffs. They both fit the same motor mount adapter. I use a dedicated motor for them, much more versatile than the mandrel system. I also assembled a set of 6" buffs from the hardware store / home center before Beall started offering that size. It would have been a lot easier and no more expensive to buy the Beall buffs.

The buffs shed a lot of lint initially, and that is normal. Depending on use / abuse, the buffs should last decades.

 

[Bernie Weishapl]

I have the Beall 3 wheel system. I had a motor that ran at 1725 rpm which was recommended. I also got the set of three 3" bowl buffs. I agree a dedicated motor in my opinion is the best way to go. I don't like setting up and then having to tear it down so I can turn again. As was said before the first time or two that you use them it will look like it snowed.

 

[Odie]

Thanks for the comments men....

I couldn't make up my mind which round bowl buffs to get, so I just broke down and decided to order all three sizes! I know I'll use them all anyway.

I'm sure glad I found this forum....a place to communicate with other turners, and to see what they think, what they know, and what they're up to! Although I've been turning bowls for better than 20yrs, I can see that I knew less than I thought I did in a few aspects of turning.....and, am happy to see that in other areas I seem to be advanced further than I knew. I am happy to let others in on what I know, and am grateful for those who share their knowledge with others......(but, I suppose, like many others who pursue artistic endeavors, just about ALL OF US still maintain a few "trade secrets"! )

Anyway, I am looking forward to see some improvement in the refinement of my finished bowls. My previous habits were to rely on very fine grits of sandpaper to produce the best possible finish I could get. Not that what I was doing was substandard.....but better is ALWAYS better!

Thanks to all for your input, help, and interest.

BTW: I did see that video Woodcraft has. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction to see it. Amazing stuff!

....otis of Cologne

 

[Jack Savona]

...I suppose, like many others who pursue artistic endeavors, just about ALL OF US still maintain a few "trade secrets"! )

I have to say that if there's a group who doesn't keep secrets, it's turners. I'll tell any turner anything I know (that's not saying much), and I think anyone in my local club would do the same. And just look at what's shared here on this site and others. What a great group of people woodturners are!

Jack Savona

 

[Odie]

...I suppose, like many others who pursue artistic endeavors, just about ALL OF US still maintain a few "trade secrets"! )

I have to say that if there's a group who doesn't keep secrets, it's turners. I'll tell any turner anything I know (that's not saying much), and I think anyone in my local club would do the same. And just look at what's shared here on this site and others. What a great group of people woodturners are!

Jack Savona

Howdy Jack....

If someone was withholding a private little tidbit of information for himself......how would you know? Heh,heh,heh!

I agree wholeheartedly, though......woodturners are the most generous and helpful group of artisans in the world.

....odie

 

[Marc Himes]

Jack you mentioned you use the beal system both before and after you finish your pieces. I have several questions.
What is the durability of a waxed finish when applied over tung oil or poly?
How should people take care of the pieces that are waxed and buffed when they start to get dull?
Do the tripoli and white diammond leave a residue on the wood that will interfere with the application of a finish? You mentioned that you use them before and after applying a finish.
How well does the Beal system work to get rid of defects such as scratches from sanding between coats of finish?
I really like the way a waxed and buffed bowl feels when it is done, but I am concerned about the durability of the finish compared to a Poly or Tung oil finish. I have been using Poly and Tung oil but have a hard time getting out all the little sanding marks even using fine steel wool. Would the first two steps in the Beal system work for this and allow me to apply more coats of these finishes?
I have noted that buffing with the beal system after using some finishes (like wipe on poly) will degrade the finish. I think this happens if the finish has not had a long enough time to dry or cure before I buff it Any suggestions here? I am getting a little long winded but I find finishing to be a challenge. I will try to find the video.

 

[Jack Savona]

Marc, to answer your questions: I can't comment on the durability of waxed finish over tung oil or poly. All I know is that carnuba is about the hardest wax I can find.

I enclose a folded card with all my bowls that tells where the wood came from, describes the process of my turning and finishing it, and how to care for it. Most of my bowls are meant to be decorative (can't compete with Pier I), so I mention that if users wipe with a damp sponge, the luster will probably diminish. However, if used for decoration or for candy, fruit, etc., the bowl can just be occasionally dusted with a polishing wax.

If I remember, Russ Fairfield recommends cleaning the bowl with Mineral spirits between buffing wheels to eliminate any residue. However, Father Confessor, I have to admit I don't usually do it.

What I know from experience and insight is that the better the base before the finish, the better the final finish. So I buff before the finish and like the feel and look of the wood before applying the actual finish. I have yet to perform the controlled experiment, but I'll bet I could feel and see the difference in the final bowl between the pre-buffing and not.

I always try to let my finish (usually Bush Oil) cure at least two weeks before final buffing. I'm finally learning patience!

Remember, you don't have to apply the wax. You always have the option of final buffing the finish only with tripoli and white diamond. I think you'll feel the difference over not buffing. And again, sometimes just a buffing with the first two wheels and putting no finish on, may be the best choice.

Jack Savona

 

[Odie]

Jack, or whomever.....

I've got quite a few finished bowls here that have been finished with Danish oil finish and Liberon Black Bison wax. Am I SOL, since they already have a wax coating, or can I go over these with the three-step Beall buff system for a finer finish that what already is????

....odie

 

[seafoam]

I can only comment on carnuba over danish oil. My experience was that it dulled very quickly so I gave up using that step altogether. The white diamond over danish oil is glossy enough for me.

As for removing marks from sanding between coats of finish, I sometimes buff with tripoli between coats instead of sanding. With danish oil though, I don't often consider this necessary unless I am using more than two coats to try and fill pores.

I wouldn't recommend the three wheels on a mandrel. I think it will restrict your movement too much and you risk running in to an adjacent wheel or the lathe body. I also caution everyone to take care when ordering spare wheels. The buffs have different center holes for the two systems.

FWIW I would guess that I go through a tripoli wheel about once a year, but it gets a fair work out in that time. I keep the worn out wheels for use inside small, shallow bowls. I have never tried the bowl buffs. Ideally though, I think that when the diameter gets reduced they would work better at a higher speed to keep the rim speed up and the wheel stiff.

The white diamond wheel lasts longer because it generally has much less work to do.

I tried the system on poly finish once. It is much harder to cut than danish, leaves a gunky residue, maybe the poly is melting? I really wouldn't recommend it but YMMV.

 

[Jeff Myroup]

I use the beal system on deft lacquer and have had no problems. I would recommend wiping the piece with mineral spirits if buffing prior to finnish. Tripoli has alot of tallow in it and can leave grease on the surface. My father was a plant manager for a buff and compound company, and I used to work there when in high school. What a terrible job. I used to have to unload 100# triploi bags from railroad cars, during the summer.

Jeff

 

[Charlie Knighton]

motor speed

the vedio mentioned above discusses using 1/3 hp motor, can the lowest speed on the lathe be too high??? when using the 3 step beal

my spindle speeds are 500-2500 rpm

 

[Brian Hahn]

Baitbegger,
The recommended motor speed is 1725 rpm. Well within the range of your lathe.

 

[WV Woodturner]

Buff away

Get the video,
when using this system,
1) load up the Tripoli and buff very well. Find a mark on the piece so you know where you started. The Tripoli will leave a residue because it is a polishing grit in a fat compound.
2) Use the White diamond compound very sparingly, a little goes a long way. This is only used to remove the residue from the Tripoli, that’s all. This will leave you with raw polished wood.
3) Again, use the carnauba wax sparingly, just touch it lightly to the buffing wheel and only for less then 1 second. it should only make a brruppp sound when appling the wax to the wheel. You don’t need anymore than that.
You may want to wax the inside first, it gets slippery to hold once you wax the outside.
Use the 3" inside buffing heads, the 4" are pretty big and can leave swirl marks when crossing the grain of the bottom of a smaller bowl like you make. Leave the 4" for the bigger bowls.
One other thing. If you do this over your lathe bed, put something soft over the cast iron bed. It is possible to spin the piece out of your hand and onto the bed. Bang, one big dent, if it didn't crack or blow apart. Enjoy this system. It works great.

 

[Doc Ron]

Some good advice in this thread. I have the 4" bowl buffs, used on the lathe. The 4" is a lttle big for some of the smaller bowls, but so far have not had much trouble. I use them for everything - bowls, flatwork (like platters) and pens. Sometimes use wax, sometimes not, depends on how oily the wood is. I don't use it, for instance, on olive wood or cocobolo. I have had the system about 6 months and like it a lot. It is quick to mount on the lathe, and you can "save up" pieces until you have several. I have been buffing up old bowls which I made before which have gotten dull from use,. Everything has been improved, whether they were finished with shellac, poly, or walnut oil, or CA/BLO.

 

[Jack Savona]

Safety note

Remember to wear respiratory protection! Apparently, the fine residue, particularly of the white diamond compound, is something you don't want to breathe. If I don't also wear a face shield, my eyes feel like they've been subjected to fine dust...and that's with the DC running.

My recommendation: SYL - save your lungs!

Jack Savona

 

[Charlie Knighton]

different woods

would you not use the beale system for some woods because they are too soft?????????? thinking about sasafrass

 

[Charlie Knighton]

let me explain

let me explain why i was asking wheather sassafrass might be too soft to use beale system to sand,

i saw a picture of piece of sassafrass that had been sandblasted, where the alternating layers were higher then lower ripple effect

ash and sassafrass are in the same family of woods where ash is on the hard side and sassafrass is on the soft side

anybody got an opinion?

 

[whitefence]

My dendrology book says ash is in the olive family (Oleaceae) anmd sassafras is in the laurel family (lauraceae).

Stan

 

[Charlie Knighton]

another thing i need

i guess maybe i need one of those dendrology book

the grain pattern look similar to me

 

[Brian Hahn]

i saw a picture of piece of sassafrass that had been sandblasted, where the alternating layers were higher then lower ripple effect

Sandblasting is a very, VERY, VERY aggressive technique. A friend of mine cleaned 40 year old mortar off of his brick fireplace with a sandblaster.

Buffing is at the other end of the spectrum. It is a very gentle technique to do the final surface polishing. I've buffed sassafrass and it works just as well as any other hard wood that I've used.

 

[Odie]

If I did take a previously finished and waxed bowl and started at step #1 with the Beall system, wouldn't this be bad for the buffing wheels? (sort of thinking the wax might interfere with subsequent uses of the wheels as they were intended to start with a wax free surface.

....just wondering

otis of Cologne

 

[Brian Hahn]

Odie,
I don't worry about existing wax on the surface. But if you are worried, you could strip the wax off with some mineral spirits first.

 

[Bob Herrman]

Sassafrass Vs Beale

Sassafrass has not problem with the Beale system as long as you follow the recommended proceedures. Your bowl will have a high Gloss especially when used with gloss poly.

 

[WV Woodturner]

its Beall with 2 l's