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Bowl gouge "edge holding"

I too for years sharpened my Thompsons with the oxide wheels but when I purchased my CBN wheels I actually extended the life of the tools immensely. A soft touch on the CBN sharpens so fast and with very very little metal removed. A 5/8 gouge may have lasted 5 years sharpening with oxide but I'll bet I will get 15 to 20 with CBN. Not exactly related to this thread but what also adds to the tool life is the Vector Grind Fixture which allows one to sharpen any gouge that has at least 1/2 inch of flute left. I am years away from having to use that feature:D
 
It has been a long time since I have used standard grinding wheels, probably 10+ years, so I can't remember. One reason I went for the CBN was that I would go through the white grinding wheels in about a year. I did see one white wheel that was 220 grit, but couldn't find any for sale. Add the longevity and safety of the CBN wheels and they are a far better value. They do come in finer grits.

As for sharpness, I think this is an issue like the old Miller Beer commercials, "Less filling!" "Tastes great!" For turners, "Coarser cuts better, lasts longer!" "Finer cuts better, lasts longer!"

robo hippy
 
I remember running a white wheel down to about 5" or less before I replaced it. I was really cheap back in those days. It did however prove to me that the bevel shape below the main bevel really doesn't matter because it obviously changed quite a bit when I bought a new 8" wheel.
 
I thought my turning improved when I got the CBN's but it must have been the better sharpness in the gouges. There was an article in AW or in the newsletters we receive from AAW and the gist of the thing was CBN sharpens powdered metal better. Reason being that it fractures the particles leaving a sharper edge. Seems there was a little discussion here at that time also.
 
I have been teaching for the last 4 years in Argentina. One year, one turner said the reason I could make such nice things was due to me having a nice lathe and lots of good tools. I told him, is not the arrow, its the Indian. I showed everyone I can turn a bowl on a 100-year lathe with a bowl gouge made out of a motorcycle engine piston, cut in half. I had to sharpen a lot, but I proved to them is not the equipment, is the years standing in front of a lathe.
 
I purchased a set of turning tools from the flea market all made from files. cost me $3 I think. Anyway just for fun I took them home and turned a bowl and few other things. They worked great. Did require frequent sharpening but wasn't terrible. There was one big scraper made from a HSS metal cutting tool but I didn't use that.
 
Dean Center said:
Do you have contact information on the maker? Here's a tool you don't yet have, tool addicts. Time to open your wallets. :D
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I wish it was a joke or intended as one. they are about 50 or more years behind us in Argentina. A friend of mine is a Philosophy professor at a National University, he makes $200 US a month. He obviously can't afford to buy a Thompson or any other brand of a bowl gouge. A motorcycle piston is under an inch in width, cut in half you already have the flute of the gouge. Just have to sharpen it. The weak part and the cause of accidents is because they weld the short piston to a steel rod, a catch can break the weld and send the piston flying. I have to say, they are surprisingly effective, in the absence of a Thompson gouge...
 
Been using my Thompson U flute 5/8 for a short time now and I like it. As some of you have pointed out, it is easier to sharpen and maintain proper shape on than the V shaped ones but now that I know I pay a bit more attention to those when I sharpen. It may just be optimistic mental justification for buying a new tool but I do like the feel when making the transition curve and then moving along the bottom of a bowl with the U shaped. With thicker steel on the bottom it might be easier for me to ride a bevel but not going to over analyze it. If it works and feels right keep turning. Thanks for all the input and education on this one.
 
Randy Anderson said:
Been using my Thompson U flute 5/8 for a short time now and I like it. As some of you have pointed out, it is easier to sharpen and maintain proper shape on than the V shaped ones but now that I know I pay a bit more attention to those when I sharpen. It may just be optimistic mental justification for buying a new tool but I do like the feel when making the transition curve and then moving along the bottom of a bowl with the U shaped. With thicker steel on the bottom it might be easier for me to ride a bevel but not going to over analyze it. If it works and feels right keep turning. Thanks for all the input and education on this one.
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I'm not sure I follow, you are cutting the transition area with a U bowl gouge?
 
Fantastic thread, I have used Oneway gouges for years (M4) and find them the best compromise. I certainly like the parabolic flute and just don’t consider anything else. I went looking for a larger 3/4 bowl gouge, Oneway doesn’t make one, and settled on the Carter and sons Mahoney version because of the parabolic flute. I use it for roughing bowls in green wood, It holds a good edge and takes to honing well allowing for touch up as opposed to returning to the grinder as often. This being said I believe I can get my M4 sharper or at least it feels that way and at 20 cheaper for a 1/2 bowl gouge I’ll keep with my M4 for the 5/8,1/2 and 3/8 gouges.
 
Emiliano, I make cuts with it from rim to bottom center. That not a good plan for this shape? Seems to work fine for me and while I can obviously see the difference when using it I didn't have any issues. That said, I haven't used it but a few times. I don't see it being good for outside shear scraping unless I decide to grind it with more sweep than it has now. I did add a bit more sweep than what it came with but not much. The top of the flute along the shaft is not sharp enough to cut but it does have a bit of an edge to it vs others I have.
 
I don't really like to make a cut from rim to bottom of bowl, except on smaller bowls, like 10 inch or so. Then I will use a 60 or 70 degree bevel gouge, but more of a finger nail grind and not a swept back grind. On all other bowls, 40/40 down the side and 70 with a ) shaped nose for the transition and across the bottom. Most of my BOB tools (bottom of bowl) are U or half round flute shapes, and some times the fluteless gouge from Doug. I am starting to use the NRS a lot in the bottom of bowls. They do cut better on the flat grain of the bottom of the bowl, but not quite as well on the transition were you run into more end grain.

robo hippy
 
Clarification - when I say rim to bottom I'm not yet one of those guys I see on youtube that starts at the rim and makes a smooth cut all the way to the bottom on a big bowl. I take it in stages but am trying to use the different gouges I have to see which works best for me in each main area - sides, transition and bottom. Note I just recently became aware that the different gouge shapes make some difference. Starting to try and make sure my use of NR scrapers not making me a lazy gouge user. Great tools but for me can be too easy to say heck with it, don't take that last cleanup light pass and just grab the ol scraper and go. Guess the tool doesn't really matter but still, want to get/stay proficient at gouge use.
 
The only time I ever use a U shaped gouge is when I have a really difficult piece of wood and I get tear out going from the transition of the side to the bottom of the bowl. That is where I use a 3/8' Thompson U ground to about 85 degrees. This tool always cleans up that torn grain.
 
I much prefer the Hunter #4 for bottom feeding or transition areas. It has a 60 degree cutting edge with an outside bevel.of 82 degrees. So it let's you ride the bevel across the bottom on steep.sided bowls but leaves a cut as clean as a standard bowl gouge. For the transition areas where you cant ride the bevel I use it as a shear scraper with the recessed side toward the wood. It leaves a very good finish used this way. And of course being carbide it holds an edge for a.very long time.
 
Randy Anderson said:
Emiliano, I make cuts with it from rim to bottom center. That not a good plan for this shape? Seems to work fine for me and while I can obviously see the difference when using it I didn't have any issues. That said, I haven't used it but a few times. I don't see it being good for outside shear scraping unless I decide to grind it with more sweep than it has now. I did add a bit more sweep than what it came with but not much. The top of the flute along the shaft is not sharp enough to cut but it does have a bit of an edge to it vs others I have.
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I have a bottom bowl gouge from Doug Thompson, U shaped, and 3/4. I only use it for the area that the 40/40 won't cut, about a third of the bottom. It will be difficult to cut the transition area with it. For that, you could use a 60 degrees Ellsworth type, or now I'm using a #5 Badger tool for the transition, and then the bottom bowl gouge. I can leave a surface that needs little sanding. I used to do the entire bowl with an Ellsworth gouge.
 
Yes the #5 is excellent. I use the #4 because it hangs on my rack and is the first Hunter tool.i got so its.kind of an old.friend.
 
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