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Bowl Turning -Beads

Joined
Nov 20, 2021
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Location
Hershey, PA
I have been trying to incorporate some beads in my work. I’ve really enjoyed Richard Raffan’s YouTube video - my question is are beads normally turned with green wood or with a twice turned bowl on the final turning? I haven’t tried cutting beads on the initial turning - which would be easier than working with dried wood - any thoughts?
Thanks
Bill
 
Beads are turned with equal difficulty on once and twice turned pieces (imo). It just depends on your intention with the piece. I will say though, that if you plan to turn them initially on a twice turned vessel, be careful on the second turning. You might screw up the position of the beads (for example if you true the rim, then the beads will look out of place, as they be closer to the rim in some places, and further away in others. If that makes sense). Of course, that could be part of your design.

Beads on a once-turned piece are fun, in that they move just like the rest of the bowl. For example, Bill Luce’s beautiful Holly bowl:

542EB15F-F6C5-4AD3-9C4B-0BC6919F3E64.jpeg

Here is a little cherry bowl turned green with a fat bead:

0E0C25EC-18FF-4A4D-BD09-44EA766AF175.jpeg
 
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I have been trying to incorporate some beads in my work. I’ve really enjoyed Richard Raffan’s YouTube video - my question is are beads normally turned with green wood or with a twice turned bowl on the final turning? I haven’t tried cutting beads on the initial turning - which would be easier than working with dried wood - any thoughts?
Thanks
Bill

Always easier to turn green wood. Learning with a spindle gouge - turn beads on a green bowl shape, turn them off turn them again

Three ways I know to turn beads - 1. spindle gouge or detail gouge
Al Stirt has some great demos using a 1/2” detail gouge with a 60 degree bevel
I use a 1/2” spindle gouge with 30 degree bevel

Or 2. a beading tool. Probably better on dry wood.

Or 3. A pyramid tool does a decent job.

Spindle gouge Beads turned wet on HFs. 71890A63-7327-478E-9E97-765CA31A951F.jpeg B9A4307F-50FF-418B-928E-C4AC8F81FC62.jpeg

Spindle gouge Bead at top turned dryFB4BF1DF-4044-4CC9-B537-A9C248837BC8.jpeg D4E89B29-2893-4028-8689-49ADAF3EA97A.jpeg
 
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Whatever embellishment done (beads, coves, grooves, etc), finer detailed items are best left for 2 turn projects. While easily cut in wet wood, in my experience fine details dont make it thru the drying process well and arent appealing.

Wet end grain pieces dont distort as much and look better vs face grain IMO.
 
Good question Bill.....
I'm not sure there's an answer to your question. It's all gonna depend on what you are making.
I only turn green wood, to finish without double turning. I gave up double turning years ago, because I enjoy the process of seeing my piece finished instead of waiting months/years for it to dry. I also cherish character that the drying process gives my pieces.
If you look at Bill Luce's bowl that Michael posted....that is a wonderful example of a bead in green wood compliments the drying process. A piece like that would be impossible to turn with dry wood... (unless carved I guess).
I love the beauty that nature provides us!
Merry Christmas to all!
Lyle
 
Beads are turned with equal difficulty on once and twice turned pieces (imo). It just depends on your intention with the piece. I will say though, that if you plan to turn them initially on a twice turned vessel, be careful on the second turning. You might screw up the position of the beads (for example if you true the rim, then the beads will look out of place, as they be closer to the rim in some places, and further away in others. If that makes sense). Of course, that could be part of your design.

Beads on a once-turned piece are fun, in that they move just like the rest of the bowl. For example, Bill Luce’s beautiful Holly bowl:

View attachment 48324

Here is a little cherry bowl turned green with a fat bead:

View attachment 48325
Beautiful examples of mother nature will facilitate if left to her own. Non turners and possibly some turners would look at the top bowl in particular and say "how did you do that? Did you carve it?"
 
If you are making a one time turned bowl.......maybe doing some wet sanding to make it look good and get all your cutting marks out.......a simple bead or two cut while the wood is wet. When dried - the bead will have some wiggle to it. Kind of interesting. Not able to do that with a dry blank.
 
Yes, usually you have to either do a drag against some sandpaper, return/carve the bottom, or just initially carve the foot so that you have three feet instead of a round.
 
Lyle, Robo and others who primarily or exclusively turn green, do you come back and flatten the bottoms after the bowls dry? I’d turn more green, but always feel that a wobbly bowl detracts from the appeal. Maybe a mistaken bias?
Many of my HFs and NE bowls have round footless bottoms.

If it has a foot similar to @Michael Anderson - I clamp sandpaper to the tablesaw and slide the foot across trying to keep it from rocking.
 
Oh yeah, Al makes a good point. Sometimes it’s best to just have a rounded bottom. I turned this black oak bowl green a couple of days ago. Sopping wet, but rounded the bottom (and made the bottom just slightly thicker than the rest of the bowl) so there’s no worry about rocking. Makes for a good fruit bowl or related.

A4EC62B2-24A2-408B-BF61-BE08D352967E.jpeg
 
Lyle, Robo and others who primarily or exclusively turn green, do you come back and flatten the bottoms after the bowls dry? I’d turn more green, but always feel that a wobbly bowl detracts from the appeal. Maybe a mistaken bias?
Hi Lou, I don't think I ever have....flattened the bottom, but I'm not making bowls that people are going to eat ice cream out of....
 
Lyle, Robo and others who primarily or exclusively turn green, do you come back and flatten the bottoms after the bowls dry? I’d turn more green, but always feel that a wobbly bowl detracts from the appeal. Maybe a mistaken bias?
With green turned bowls I usually have a tenon to remove so when dry I jam chuck to turn the tenon off which then trues up the base.
The goblet forms that I do I have developed a technique to undercut the base during that "one turn" process and then when dry do the sandpaper rub.
BaseUndercut1.JPGBaseUndercut2.JPGBaseCutOff.JPG
 
I use a recess, almost exclusively for my bowls and platters. I have never flattened one. No one has ever complained. I did have some that went to Italy, and the family, some of whom were woodworkers, could not figure out how I got the bowls to be oval shaped. I figure with wood movement, if I did flatten the bottoms, they would move eventually, and would end up rocking anyway. Only way to have one sit flat forever is to have 3 feet on them, from Geometry, 3 points determine a plane.

robo hippy
 
clamp sandpaper to the tablesaw and slide the foot across trying to keep it from rocking.
It's worth putting down a barrier layer of brown paper first. Otherwise the swarf can scratch the cast iron surface. Unfortunately, I found this out on a brand new top. :confused:

If you can remount your bowl on the headstock, you can use a sanding sheet on a piece of plywood/mdf. Put a faceplate on the tailstock (acts as a reference flat surface), hold the sanding board against the faceplate and use the TS to bring the sanding board to the bowl bottom. Then turn the spindle by hand (no motor).
 
If you put a bead on the bowl when the wood is green then you are limited to just truing up the bottom after the bowl has dried. The warping is three-dimensional as clearly evident in Bill Luce's bowl. You won't be able to touch up the bead which means that there isn't much that can be done to the exterior except for the area near the foot/bottom. Since the exterior must be left oval, then the interior must be left oval unless you don't mind uneven wall thickness.

Even on thoroughly dry wood, there will be some warping as you remove wood because internal stresses are changing. I turn thin-walled beaded basket illusion pieces using very dry maple wood. Because of warping the. beading process becomes very challenging as the wood is flexing. I run the lathe at its slowest speed (about 50 RPM) and with a leather work glove on my left hand I hold the wood to minimize flexing while cutting the beads. I can't ever go back to touch up a bead because of warping.
 
If you can remount your bowl on the headstock, you can use a sanding sheet on a piece of plywood/mdf. Put a faceplate on the tailstock (acts as a reference flat surface), hold the sanding board against the faceplate and use the TS to bring the sanding board to the bowl bottom. Then turn the spindle by hand (no motor).
The turn once to finish pieces will warp if thin enough or crack if too thick making remounting almost impossible and definately impractical. The simplest and most effective method is to clamp or otherwise attach sand paper to a flat surface then holding the piece in both hands slide it over the sand paper with the pressure concentrated on the high spots or is that the low spots. The piece may warp again during the annual change in seasons that usually can be influenced by species and figure in thee wood.
PedestalBowlRedOak.JPG
This is a piece from 2004 before I discovered the value of a concave base.
 
I do them on both green-once turned...

103b6.jpg 103c1.jpg

and also on dry second turned or on seasoned blanks...

Redgum - old - 5.5in.JPG


I roll them with a detail gouge, which is easier to do on the outside of the piece than on the inside. Richard Raffan suggested I try the D-way beading tools for the beads on the inside, but I found I could turn the beads crisper and quicker with the detail gouge than with those.

I go a bit overboard with beads on my large fruit bowls. I add them to the inside to help with air circulating around the fruit to stop them from over ripening prematurely... and then continue to add them to the outside for a bit of unity and to reduce the time required to sand and polish the outside. I don't ever sand beads. The finish off the tool should be good enough to just add the finish directly to them.

Pine 13in.JPG
Those fruit bowls are an economy line that get turned quickly with a finish off the tool and just a coat of oil added.
 
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I have never turned beads on green wood. Have not done many lately but for several years used a combination of Point Tool for beads on the outer surface and either Sobey Texturing or Spiraling Tool effect between two beads. Also use one or two beads on the bottom,, depending on bowl size and sign and identify inside the bead. Also one with just a simple bead near the rim.
 

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