• July 2025 Turning Challenge: Turn a Multi-axis Weed Pot! (click here for details)
  • Congratulations to Kent Reisdorph for "Sugarberry Bowl" being selected as Turning of the Week for July 14, 2025 (click here for details)
  • Welcome new registering member. Your username must be your real First and Last name (for example: John Doe). "Screen names" and "handles" are not allowed and your registration will be deleted if you don't use your real name. Also, do not use all caps nor all lower case.

Bowl vs Hollow Form

E

Ed_McDonnell

Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
643
Likes
2
Location
Central Florida
I made a "bowl" that is 14" diameter with a 4" shoulder on the rim (which means a 6" opening). I'm calling it a bowl, but should it more appropriately be called something else? It's not really a bowl in any utilitarian sense of the word, but could it really be considered a hollow form with the relatively large opening?

At what point does a bowl become a hollow form? If the diameter of the opening is less than some percentage of the total diameter does it change from a bowl to a hollow form? Is there a range in-between where it should be called somthing else? Closed Form?

I have a piece that is going to be put on display and I am trying to do a write-up on it. I could always use the generic "turning" as a descriptor, but I would like to use something that is more descriptive (but less clunky than "bowl with big shoulders").

What say you?

Ed
 
Closed Form/Open Form?

Ed_McDonnell said:
I made a "bowl" that is 14" diameter with a 4" shoulder on the rim (which means a 6" opening). I'm calling it a bowl, but should it more appropriately be called something else? It's not really a bowl in any utilitarian sense of the word, but could it really be considered a hollow form with the relatively large opening?

At what point does a bowl become a hollow form? If the diameter of the opening is less than some percentage of the total diameter does it change from a bowl to a hollow form? Is there a range in-between where it should be called somthing else? Closed Form?

I have a piece that is going to be put on display and I am trying to do a write-up on it. I could always use the generic "turning" as a descriptor, but I would like to use something that is more descriptive (but less clunky than "bowl with big shoulders").

What say you?

Ed
Click to expand...
When the opening is "too large" to be called a hollow form, and the rim is too turned in to really be a bowl, I think of it/them as closed or open forms. It really depends on how it hits me at that time. Without seeing the piece, I would probably lean toward a closed form.
 
Closed Open?

Is there a general definition of what is an open form and what is a closed form?

I am sure everyone has there own opinion on when a bowl becomes a hollow form or when a platter becomes a bowl.
 
"Turning."

Hollow implies no hole, right?
 
Turned Form Definitions

Bowl – Rim opening is the max diameter of the piece +/- 10%. The height of the rim is 25% to 75% of the max diameter of the piece.

Plate – Much like bowls expect the height is less than 25% the diameter of the piece.

Platter – Big Plate

Dish – small plate but height might exceed plate percentage yet avoid bowl proportions.

Hollowform- The opening is equal to or less than the foot diameter. Hollowed to consistent wall thickness.

Openform – The opening is at least 200% of the foot diameter but significantly less than the max. diameter of the piece. Hollowed to consistent wall thickness.

Closed Form – features an opening between a Hollowform and an Openform.

Vase – a bowl or an open form where the height is 2 times or greater of the max diameter. Hollowed to consistent wall thickness.

Urn - hollow form where the height is 2 times or greater of the max diameter. Hollowed to consistent wall thickness.

Jar – Rim opening is the max diameter of the piece +/- 10%. The height of the rim is 200% or more of the max diameter of the piece. Hollowed to consistent wall thickness. May have lid as part of design.

Pot - Rim opening is the max diameter of the piece +/- 10%. The height of the rim is 75% to 125% of the max diameter of the piece. Hollowed to consistent wall thickness.

Box – A lidded vessel, generally small

Art Bowl or Thick Bowl – a bowl or dish where the inside shape and outside shape are unrelated,

Natural Edge – Any edge left by nature that remains on turned form. For example bark, surface under bark or the ID of a hollow tree. Natural edge can be left on any of the above forms.

Bonus Definition:

Woodturner – A dusty but kind individual prone to long hours in solitude. May be often found doodling shapes when not in his shop. Likely to stop suddenly for downed trees. Car smells like gas from the chainsaw in the trunk. May drive mini-van despite not having kids and/or dreams of a full size pick-up truck. Seldom purchases gifts for friends or family but would rather offer items he has created. He vacations in less popular American cities such as Louisville, Portland, Richmond, Brasstown or Provo. When his wife asks what he is doing on the internet and he answers ‘Looking to get wood’ she doesn’t worry about their marriage.


What did I miss, but I like Angelo's idea.
Frank
 
You forgot one form definition.

Hideaway - The ones you never let others see for fear of ridicule.

I have a couple of boxes full of them :rolleyes:
 
Ron Sardo said:
You forgot one form definition.

Hideaway - The ones you never let others see for fear of ridicule.

I have a couple of boxes full of them :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Don`t they also fall under the term "Decorative Firewood"? :D
 
Either a dog bowl or M & M bowl. Bring it to the meeting tomorrow night and I'll tell you which :cool2: .
 
Frank Kobilsek said:
Turned Form Definitions
Frank
Click to expand...
Where did you get all of this information??? Robert's Rules of Order, Hoyle, The Marquess of Queensberry? I mean the definitions are so precise (and reasonable), did you just make them up or is there some source?
 
MichaelMouse said:
"Turning."

Hollow implies no hole, right?
Click to expand...

hollow
adj 1: not solid; having a space or gap or cavity; "a hollow wall";
"a hollow tree"; "hollow cheeks"; "his face became
gaunter and more hollow with each year" [ant: solid]
2: deliberately deceptive; "hollow (or false) promises"; "false
pretenses" [syn: false]
3: as if echoing in a hollow space; "the hollow sound of
footsteps in the empty ballroom"
4: devoid of significance or point; "empty promises"; "a hollow
victory"; "vacuous comments" [syn: empty, vacuous]
n 1: a cavity or space in something; "hunger had caused the
hollows in their cheeks"
2: a small valley between mountains; "he built himself a cabin
in a hollow high up in the Appalachians" [syn: holler]
3: a depression hollowed out of solid matter [syn: hole]
v 1: remove the inner part or the core of; "the mining company
wants to excavate the hillsite" [syn: excavate, dig]
2: remove the interior of; "hollow out a tree trunk" [syn: hollow
out, core out]
 
Barbara Gill said:
hollow
adj
Click to expand...

"When properly viewed, anything is lewd." - Tom Lehrer

Which is to say they're all hollow. Even a plank perhaps in an Einsteinian universe, where gravity warps the fabric of space.

Add to the turners' Strunk and White

Unnatural edge - hollow(ed) form in which the rim has been modified either intentionally or un from its pristine state, but is not level with the base.

Archetype, stolen from the splitter.
 

Attachments

  • Shellac Long Side.jpg
    Shellac Long Side.jpg
    61.8 KB · Views: 2
By george

Just made them up. No official reference so mostly BS. Did it the first time a couple years ago but couldn't find the file so I banged out a new list instead of lunch yesterday. On a diet.

Frank
 
Florida State Fair definitions

I believe the maker can call their forms anything they wish.
Some shows divide things into categories for judging and awarding prizes
Below are the categories for the Florida State Fair.

Now the vessel that started this thread would seemingly qualify for either the bowl or hollow form category as I read it. So back to the artist deciding.


DIVISION 153A
Class Description
(HOLLOW VESSEL) Definition: Hollow vessel – a form with a top opening smaller than the width,
containing substantial “hollow area.†Vase – a hollow vessel higher than wide
1. Standard hollow vessel or vase – may contain decoration while turning on the lathe (i.e. coves,
beads, surface texture
2. Embellished hollow vessel or vase – carved, fluted, wood burned, inlay, colored, etc.
(BOWL) Definition: Bowl – top opening larger than the base, exposing the interior to view. (Wider than
high)
3. Standard bowl – may contain decoration applied while turning on the lathe (i.e. coves, beads,
surface texture
4. Embellished bowl – carved, fluted, wood burned, inlay, colored, etc.
(PLATE / PLATTER) Definition: Plate/platter – a form substantially wider than high with the surface
open to view.
5. Standard plate / platter - may contain decoration while turning on the lathe (i.e. coves, beads,
surface texture
6. Embellished plate / platter - carved, fluted, wood burned, inlay, colored, etc.
(SPINDLE) Definition: Spindle – primarily turned between centers with grain parallel to lathe bed.
7. ALL SPINDLE – Primarily turned b/t centers, grain parallel to bed of lathe
(NATURAL EDGE)
8. ALL NATURAL EDGE
9. ALL SEGMENTED or constructed: pieced together and turned with one or more woods (e.g.
maple/walnut)
10. OTHER THAN WOOD at least 50% other material (alabaster, plastics, metal spinning, soapstone,
and combinations of above)
11. MINEATURE no dimension exceeding two (2) inches
12. ALL ORNAMENTAL (done with an ornamental type lathe)
13. LIDDED CONTAINER no dimension over 4â€Â
14. LIDDED CONTIANER any dimension over 4â€Â
15. OTHER jewelry, toys, pens, Christmas ornaments, utensils, constructed multiple turnings,
resulting in spinning wheels, ships, wheel clocks, candelabra, reassembled turnings, wood or nonwoods
acceptable; however, 50% of project must be turned.
 
Greg, Thanks for finding that. I couldn't seemed to find it here or as a word file on my computer.

Al's list has more credibility than mine via the Florida State Fair. I have entered my turnings in our local County fair is a class defined as Wood, free standing structure, not furniture. After I got the best of Show plaque against very few other entries they asked me to be the judge the next year. I go for judging at 10:00 on a Wednesday night and there were zero entries. Local fairs are really going downhill in my area.

Frank
 
Thanks for all the great input and discussion. I had thought it was either an Open Form or a Closed Form, but after reviewing Frank's thoughtfully constructed guidelines I had to rule them out. With all the great input, I narrowed down the choices, but after much deliberation I was unable to make a final choice between Frank's Hollowform and Angelo's "Manny". I bit the bullet and made a choice.

So I sign on to post my decision this afternoona and what do I find but more great input. Since I live in Florida, Hockenberry's "official" Florida naming rules have to be seriously considered and they explicity address the carved feet.

With all things considered my turning will forever be knows as an Embellished Hollow Vessel Formely Known As Manny.

I've attached a picture (I hope) of EHVFKAM .

Thanks

Ed
 

Attachments

  • Manny.jpg
    Manny.jpg
    87.5 KB · Views: 2
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top