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Burl with a few PPB

John Kananis

John Kananis

Joined
Aug 8, 2024
Messages
100
Likes
60
Location
Blairstown, NJ
I picked up a bunch of sugar maple burls about a week ago with the intent of rough turning them the day after tomorrow. I looked through the bunch just now and low and behold...evidence of powder post beetles on one of the blanks. I don't have bora-care and a bottle is about 100 bucks for the smallest I can find (which is more than I paid for the blank). Any solutions? If I just turn this thing (late tomorrow night the earliest but realistically Wednesday) will I be inviting problems (potentially spreading through the shop, etc)? I have it segregated from the rest of my stock right now. If you look at the pic, you'll notice the issue bottom front and one small dust-pile on the back right corner.

burl.jpg
 
Do you have a boiling or steaming setup? If you can get the internal temp up to 150F for a couple of hours that should take care of the bugs without causing drying cracks.

See my post #40 in this thread for a description of steaming without a box. steam in a bag
 
Kevin Jenness said:
Do you have a boiling or steaming setup? If you can get the internal temp up to 150F for a couple of hours that should take care of the bugs without causing drying cracks.

See my post #40 in this thread for a description of steaming without a box. steam in a bag
Click to expand...
Hi Kevin, I don't have a boiling apparatus that's available to me in the shop. My steaming setup is a tea kettle, a hotplate and a long skinny ply box...I'll check out your steam in a bag setup - thank you for the link.
 
I put smaller pieces of wood (ie ones that will fit) in the oven for 5-6 hours at 150-160 deg. The internal temp needs to be over 145 for at least 3 hours if I recall correctly. Thick pieces can take a long time to equilibrate.
 
Idk what kind of luck I'll have with the better half but I'll try. The piece is 12 inches by 14 inches by 6 inches thick. You think 6 his will do it? Should I set the oven at 180 or 200 instead? Am I potentially going to crack the blank this way?

Roger Wiegand said:
I put smaller pieces of wood (ie ones that will fit) in the oven for 5-6 hours at 150-160 deg. The internal temp needs to be over 145 for at least 3 hours if I recall correctly. Thick pieces can take a long time to equilibrate.
Click to expand...
 
John Kananis said:
Idk what kind of luck I'll have with the better half but I'll try. The piece is 12 inches by 14 inches by 6 inches thick. You think 6 his will do it? Should I set the oven at 180 or 200 instead? Am I potentially going to crack the blank this way?
Click to expand...
It's going to dry green wood very quickly, so yes I'd expect a high likelihood of cracking a thick blank if it's got much water in it. I've only done it on rough turned pieces and flat lumber that were pretty dry. I think longer time at lower temperature will be more gentle.
 
If it's going to crack (very wet and heavy) then it may as well go into the fire pit now and save myself the issue. If I rough turn first, can I possibly contaminate other things in the shop? By spinning them (the ppb's) into projectiles.

Roger Wiegand said:
It's going to dry green wood very quickly, so yes I'd expect a high likelihood of cracking a thick blank if it's got much water in it. I've only done it on rough turned pieces and flat lumber that were pretty dry. I think longer time at lower temperature will be more gentle.
Click to expand...
 
Don, no worries of contamination? If this was a flat board, I would just burn it but I really would like to preserve this piece. Idc about a few burrow holes since it's a burl anyway, just want the critters gone when all said and done.

Don Wattenhofer said:
Why worry about them now the damage is already done just turn what you can get and if any grubs are still alive and or havn't been dismembered you should be able to kill them.
Click to expand...
 
John Kananis said:
If it's going to crack (very wet and heavy) then it may as well go into the fire pit now and save myself the issue. If I rough turn first, can I possibly contaminate other things in the shop? By spinning them (the ppb's) into projectiles.
Click to expand...

I have sent a lot of grubs on a 1000 RPM ride. They don't bother anything, really. As Don said, just turn it.
 
You can't judge the level of infestation from a few existing holes. There will be tunnels everywhere inside, as well as a great chance of eggs and larvae crawling inside eating their way out. If you want to just spin it as has been suggested, remember you may just throw larvae into other corners of your shop. Powder post beetles are nothing to mess with. I burnt at least a thousand board feet of lumber I had stored in a farm shed at my Mom's. It's pretty damned depressing to throw a 2x20x 10' curly soft maple board into a fire. The inside of the stock was filled with powder.
 
Bruce Wills said:
Asking from a position of ignorance...would it work to freeze the piece for a few days?
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It's easy to research the life cycles of PPB. The eggs can remain dormant for a decade. They survive the winter just fine in the depth of the wood. Wood is a pretty good insulator. The ONLY approved treatment is heat. Personally I prefer documented science over folk remedies after my huge loss of valuable hardwood.
 
The blank was freshly cut, maybe a week prior to my purchasing. You think it could get that bad that fast?

Richard Coers said:
You can't judge the level of infestation from a few existing holes. There will be tunnels everywhere inside, as well as a great chance of eggs and larvae crawling inside eating their way out. If you want to just spin it as has been suggested, remember you may just throw larvae into other corners of your shop. Powder post beetles are nothing to mess with. I burnt at least a thousand board feet of lumber I had stored in a farm shed at my Mom's. It's pretty damned depressing to throw a 2x20x 10' curly soft maple board into a fire. The inside of the stock was filled with powder.
Click to expand...
 
Well, for me, I would opt for the microwave, but since that doesn't work for you, I think Borax powder works, the active beetles drag it home and it will suffocate them. I would leave it outside, and only bring it into the shop to turn and process, then again, store it outside till dry, hope you have an outside storage area. Once they are in your shop, they never go away.

robo hippy
 
John Kananis said:
Thanks, Paul. Microwaving simply isn't happening though. Not only is it too large and heavy but I don't have a microwave available in the shop and there's zero chance of this happening in my home.
Click to expand...
Understandable. A number of years back I found a large ditched microwave that had a broken handle latching mechanism. Otherwise it worked fine. Replaced the broken spring in the handle and got to thinking about how to use it for drying once-turned bowls. One of these days I'll post in the project forum, but I basically hacked a microcontroller into the keypad of the microwave so that I can control it over wifi. This let's me setup automated heating cycles while varying on/off time, power, etc. After all that, I mostly use it just to take care of bugs or to dry down a first turning I need to get to soon.
 
Paul Paukstelis said:
Understandable. A number of years back I found a large ditched microwave that had a broken handle latching mechanism. Otherwise it worked fine. Replaced the broken spring in the handle and got to thinking about how to use it for drying once-turned bowls. One of these days I'll post in the project forum, but I basically hacked a microcontroller into the keypad of the microwave so that I can control it over wifi. This let's me setup automated heating cycles while varying on/off time, power, etc. After all that, I mostly use it just to take care of bugs or to dry down a first turning I need to get to soon.
Click to expand...

You are quite the tinkerer!
 
I'm trying to think outside the box here: how about fuming with ammonia? Maybe it (if it works) would have a cool effect on the burl? It works great with oak but idk if that sugar maple has enough tannins.. regardless, going off the rails there. Ammonia fuming, will it work? I'm thinking about a black trash bag and a cup of ammonia. I have a place under cover where it would be undisturbed. If it would work, how many days would it take?
 
Had a funny thing happen with bugs about 12-14 yrs back. We had a winter house on N Padre Island at the time and while staying there would attend The Corpus Christi wood turners club. I had acreage in Wis and when going there every year would bring them a load of maple. In return, when it was time for me to come home they would load me up with Mesquite. One of the first batches I brought home, some of it had been sitting out for some time.
Some time after coming home, I was in the shop doing some things and I herd this loud crunching and couldn't figure out what it was. After looking for a bit, I saw the noise was coming from the mesquite. Turned out being what I think was a flat headed borer larva. Incredible how loud their crunch was. Tried spraying the holes with insect killer and putting the wood in a garbage bag. Sometime a few months later I figured I was safe, nope, still crunching. Ended up burning it all.
Ended up selling the house by Corpus Christi. Really miss those guys there, they were great friends and I enjoyed two SWATS with them.
 
Good story, Ed. I enjoyed it.

Ed Sandle said:
Had a funny thing happen with bugs about 12-14 yrs back. We had a winter house on N Padre Island at the time and while staying there would attend The Corpus Christi wood turners club. I had acreage in Wis and when going there every year would bring them a load of maple. In return, when it was time for me to come home they would load me up with Mesquite. One of the first batches I brought home, some of it had been sitting out for some time.
Some time after coming home, I was in the shop doing some things and I herd this loud crunching and couldn't figure out what it was. After looking for a bit, I saw the noise was coming from the mesquite. Turned out being what I think was a flat headed borer larva. Incredible how loud their crunch was. Tried spraying the holes with insect killer and putting the wood in a garbage bag. Sometime a few months later I figured I was safe, nope, still crunching. Ended up burning it all.
Ended up selling the house by Corpus Christi. Really miss those guys there, they were great friends and I enjoyed two SWATS with them.
Click to expand...
 
John Kananis said:
Good story, Ed. I enjoyed it.
Click to expand...
Wood turning is so much more than just woodturning if you know what I mean. Many fun times at the yearly forums I have attended, the multiple clubs I have belonged to and also a great friend from mentoring that I started doing. We still meet at each others shop now and then, and also go out to dinner with the wives probably once a month or so. Not only that, he brought his daughter a few times to mentor when she was in town. She was a much faster learner than pops.
 
I would rough turn it then go about killing the bugs with the likes of Bora-Care (about $80 a gallon). But worth having around if you are going to be a woodturner for a long time.
 
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