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CA glue as a sealer

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May 20, 2004
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Experience please using CA glue as a sealer before application of an oil finish.
Any other commercial sanding sealer before oil finish discussion would be appreciated. :)
 
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CA glue as a sealer will not work with oil finishes. CA basically turns into plastic when it dries so figure that, if you can't use oil finish on a milk jug, you can't use it on a CA sealed vessel. Simply won't soak in.

The other point would be that, if you've sealed it with CA and fully sanded it down, you don't need any other finish. It's now plasticized anyway. Just buff and wax or use a surface finish like shellac or laquer.

Dietrich
 
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I use a thin coat of blonde de-waxed shellac (1-lb cut). It dries fast and is a lot less smelly than most other sealers. Plus shellac is compatible with virtually every finish around. I usually use a wipe-on oil finish for my topcoats.

If you are going to be at Tuesday's meeting, you might want to talk to Eric Matthews. He finishes many of his pieces with CA glue.
 
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CA glue as sealer

I beg to differ. I've been using CA for sealing/finishing for several years. Here are the techniques I use to make this work. IMHO it brings out curly grain and the contrasts in spalted wood *better* than anything else I've used, including penetrating oils. Wear breathing/eye protection and Nitrile gloves, because latex will not hold up to CA and the fumes are noxious in this quantity. CA glue is available on the net for about $30 per pint, so it's not prohibitively expensive, either.

1) Sand the piece to 400 grit (or whatever you like)

2) Before you apply the CA, tear off 2-3 sets of doubled-over paper towels from the roll and set aside for easy access. (CA sets quickly, so you must be prepared.)

3. Using medium thin (not thin) CA, FLOOD ONE ENTIRE SURFACE of the piece with the CA. If you don't flood the surface completely, it won't penetrate well enough and will leave "starved" spots. If you DO flood it, and rub it around in a random motion using your nitrile-gloved hand, it will penetrate nicely. Also, by flooding the surface thickly, it will resist setting for a longer time, just as if it were still in the container. Doing this in a cold room slows it down further. Using glue that has sat around with the cover off slows it down further still.

4. Make a quick pass over the surface using a random motion with the first paper towel to absorb much of the glue, then discard the towel right away. If you use the towel too long, the glue will "set" on the towel, and you will scratch the finish. Don't try to "spin dry" the piece. It adds heat, speeds up the rate of reaction and leaves streaks that can be difficult to get rid of.

5. Make a second pass over the surface with the second paper towel and discard it.

6. Made a third pass. This time, you can rub the glue a bit, but again, in a random motion.

7. Give it some time to dry, maybe 20 minutes. If the finish is acceptable you're done. If there are some rough spots due to the glue's not setting evenly, no problem. Just use a fresh piece of 400 grit sandpaper to knock the rough parts while on the lathe. The sorby sanding tool works well for this. Any streaks left by the rendom hand rubbing knock off quickly, unlike those left by the spin-dry rubbing method.

8. The piece is now sealed, because the flooding has given the CA enough time to penetrate beore setting and really strengthen the wood.

9. Apply any type of curing oil OVER the CA sealed wood, as you normally would. The curly grain and the spalting pops out better than any other finisihing method I've used, and it does not look like plastic as does an epoxy finiish, in my opinion. True, the oil does not penetrate the wood as you are used to, but so what? The CA has already penetrated. The oil just leaves a really nice surface and also blends any remaining surface irregularities and completely eliminates white spots leftover from the glue's setting.

10. I developed this technique because I turn a lot of winged and natural edge vessels, and I like to keep the bark on. I've never had a problem with the bark coming off. The CA finish also reduces cracking because the surface is strengthened. If you want, take a peek at www.ericswoodart.com to see the results of this method. All the bark edged pieces were finished this way. It just takes some practice. Cherry works the best because the slight yellowing that most CA's produce is undetectable because of the tonality of the wood. If you try this, let me know how it works out.
 
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
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Eric,
Thanks for the re-affirmation. I use CA to make sure bark stays on, and then use oil for a finish. I was hoping my eyes were not tricking me into thinking there was finish in the glue soaked areas

Jerry
 
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Sorry to be disagreeable here, but I don't recommend anything under an oil finish, for a couple of reasons. Some turners use sanding sealer before applying oil....this seals the wood, as a result the oil simply sits on top of the sealer. I think the main reason turners use this method is SPEED, not quality. A good oil finish takes time. Another problem with sealer coats under oil is that any thin spots of sealer will become blotchy as the oil penetrates under the sealer in these areas...when that happens, the result is difficult to repair.

Benefits of oil finishes are they are relatively non-toxic, and they are durable, with less chance of peeling than surface finishes. Using ca (or sealer)as a base for oil negates both benefits. There are some concerns about the long term durability of ca glue joints, and I suspect we will experience the same concerns when ca is used as a finish.
 
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I gotta agree with Keith. If you want a surface/film finish, you would do best to use an equivalent finish such as shellac or laquer. There are some oil surface finishes but, like Keith said, if you get any soak through you'll get different colors and appearances that will be pretty much permanent.

By my experience, oil is a soaking finish that you reapply until it has built to the level you want. If it can't soak, it won't be consistant.

All that being said, I use CA to firm the wood and to hold the bark on pieces that I then use oil with. If I haven't sanded the surface glue away, I get distinctly different appearances to the glued and oiled areas, though.

Dietrich
 
Joined
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Inconsistent oil staining with CA

All that being said, I use CA to firm the wood and to hold the bark on pieces that I then use oil with. If I haven't sanded the surface glue away, I get distinctly different appearances to the glued and oiled areas, though.

Dietrich[/QUOTE]


Dietrich. One thing that helps is to apply the oil beneathe the bark before the CA is applied to the bark. If the CA runs into the unoiled area I quickly swipe with the oiled paper towel. A problem I have with CA in cracks sometimes is the additional coats of Danish oil may " stand up" on the crack and needs to be wiped several times (if I remember) before cured. Otherwise it leaves shiny spots which I have to buff off. Gretch
 
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One thing that helps is to apply the oil beneathe the bark before the CA is applied to the bark. [/QUOTE]

The only problem is that I'm often using the CA to secure the bark well before the final cut. I'm used to the wiping off when finishing since I apply, let soak for 5, then wipe at each coat. Where is shows up with me is in having to do quick stops on cracks in a piece that is settling after the cut. Even with a bit of wax around the edges, it's hard to stop soak through in some woods.

Dietrich
 
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