California native Walnut?

[John Hicks]

I got a load of large pieces of walnut from a lady at a local ranch; she told me "that's not black walnut, but local wild California walnut". It has been sitting in a pile of cut up logs for 5 years and the bark is full of black ants. Has anyone ever heard of this "California wild walnut"?
I'm not sure if I can salvage it, but I'm going to try. I'll post pics when I get it cut into blanks. She also gave me a few logs of what she called "liquid amber", which I believe may be sweet, or red gum.
We llive in the lower shingletown area of norther California (Shasta county), and in spots, there are large groups of these very large walnut trees. I hope to get my greedy turner's hands on some more!

 

[Ron Solfest]

Is it Claro Walnut?

 

[Lou Jacobs]

I don’t know anything about California walnut, but yes, Liquidambar styrachiflua is sweet gum

 

[Hugh]

John,
Google : Claro Walnut. There should be a map of where the Claro grows native.
It is my understanding that a lot of the older Walnut trees in the Sacramento Valley are grown on Claro Walnut root stock. Some form or English Walnut is grafted onto the root stock. Much more of a marketable nut.
That said.......There is a lot of native Black Walnut that grows in the Sacramento Valley. Look along the Sacramento River. Some really nice trees.
There used to be a fellow just south of Chico along River Road that harvested a lot of the local Walnut.......Wineguard, or Wine.......? Been too many years. I used to drive River Road on occasion, and pass his wood yard.

If you drive through the valley once in awhile, you should find someone taking out an older orchard. Check out the root stock. Sometimes you can find a rancher who has pushed out a few trees every year. Not worth while for a big mill to come and get......but worth it to go get the one or two for turning. Never hurts to ask. I used to pick up some 75 year old orchard stock that way sometimes.

Lots of Black Walnut in the Sacramento Valley.....native and orchard stock.

 

[John Hicks]

I cut up one piece that was 23” across, and this was one piece from that. It was laying for at least 5 years. Seemed to be quite hard. Has the purple streaks of claro.

 

[Charles Cadenhead]

John, my FiL has a black walnut tree he took down 10-15 years ago and has never used the wood. This summer it told me I could take what I want. It looks like firewood but when I cut it up I discovered it was in beautiful shape. I mostly turn small items so my blanks are pretty little but it's turning like a dream. You may find the walnut you have is in similar good shape. I included a picture so you could see the "before and after".
Note: The two logs underneath are a couple of bayberry pieces to help prop up the walnut. The black spots are bar oil.

 

[John Tisdale]

JohnH,
I've got lots of black walnut experience - zero experience with claro. Reading a bit about the claro and looking at Shingletown on the map, good chance you got claro. In the bits I read, the CA growers are not grafting as much and the claro is declining - hope I read the wrong article.
I hope you do at least one large hollow-form - could be a mind-bender. The pic below was a seriously plain log a bit over 20" diameter - was able to turn a globe of 18"-dia - it lasted less than a day after arriving at the gallery.
Good luck,
JohnT


John.

 

[robo hippy]

Juglans hindisee is a native western walnut species. I believe it is what many call 'claro' walnut, but some times that name is applied for color, and not really in reference to a particular species.

robo hippy

 

[John Hicks]

JohnH,
I've got lots of black walnut experience - zero experience with claro. Reading a bit about the claro and looking at Shingletown on the map, good chance you got claro. In the bits I read, the CA growers are not grafting as much and the claro is declining - hope I read the wrong article.
I hope you do at least one large hollow-form - could be a mind-bender. The pic below was a seriously plain log a bit over 20" diameter - was able to turn a globe of 18"-dia - it lasted less than a day after arriving at the gallery.
Good luck,
JohnT
View attachment 41559

John.

By the time I cut the angry ants out; it wasn’t big enough to get a hollow form out of.
That must’ve a resin finish? Nice!

 

[John Hicks]

Juglans hindisee is a native western walnut species. I believe it is what many call 'claro' walnut, but some times that name is applied for color, and not really in reference to a particular species.

robo hippy

I’ve even heard locals call it “good firewood!”

 

[Hugh]

John,
Keep looking around your area. You will find some. Take a trip to Chico sometime. Lots of Walnut trees there.

 

[JeffSmith]

John,
Google : Claro Walnut. There should be a map of where the Claro grows native.
It is my understanding that a lot of the older Walnut trees in the Sacramento Valley are grown on Claro Walnut root stock. Some form or English Walnut is grafted onto the root stock. Much more of a marketable nut.
That said.......There is a lot of native Black Walnut that grows in the Sacramento Valley. Look along the Sacramento River. Some really nice trees.
There used to be a fellow just south of Chico along River Road that harvested a lot of the local Walnut.......Wineguard, or Wine.......? Been too many years. I used to drive River Road on occasion, and pass his wood yard.

If you drive through the valley once in awhile, you should find someone taking out an older orchard. Check out the root stock. Sometimes you can find a rancher who has pushed out a few trees every year. Not worth while for a big mill to come and get......but worth it to go get the one or two for turning. Never hurts to ask. I used to pick up some 75 year old orchard stock that way sometimes.

Lots of Black Walnut in the Sacramento Valley.....native and orchard stock.

Scott Wineland at Wineland Walnut just outside of Chico was the preferred sawyer for George Nakashima. If you go to his woodlot ask to see his dining table and collection of turning pieces. Amazing. I stop there just to buy stuff from his scrap pile...last time I was there he had enough walnut logs on site that it was visible from space - check Google Earth.

 

[John Hicks]

Scott Wineland at Wineland Walnut just outside of Chico was the preferred sawyer for George Nakashima. If you go to his woodlot ask to see his dining table and collection of turning pieces. Amazing. I stop there just to buy stuff from his scrap pile...last time I was there he had enough walnut logs on site that it was visible from space - check Google Earth.

If he charges more than 4 bucks; I can't afford it!

 

[JeffSmith]

John - they slab most logs and sell both slabs and prepped gun stock material. When I was there last, their scrap pile often had crown cuts that were 6 to 8" thick at the top of the crown and 8 - 12 feet long - even allowing for sapwood there's plenty of material for 14 to 16" bowls or platters. Scott and his son were very generous an even loaded an old burl that had been sitting in the yard for a long time in my trailer before I left. Just ask if you can sort through the scrap pile, let them know you're a starving artist new to the area and take it from there. No guarantees, but 4 bucks may load your truck...at least you'll meet a couple of good people in the process.

 

[John Hicks]

The power company is cutting hundreds of trees down around this area now. A friend had a large walnut tree taken down. I have full access to cut it up and take anything I want. Unfortunately my messed up back and so forth will keep me from getting more than a couple pieces. It is approx 45" wide up to about 10 ft.

 

[Phil Winch]

John T, I have to ask about your walnut sphere. Do you rough turn and hollow these? Which orientation do you use (end or face grain). What kind of wall thickness do you leave for drying? I've just acquired some large green alder pieces and would like to try my hand at something big. My biggest hollow sphere to date has been 8" and I did a single turn process on it.

 

[waltben]

Some years back I read something somewhere that Claro Walnut was actually Carpathian Walnut. It was imported more than a century back to grow 'California Walnuts' and has spread at will. All I know for certain is that I've got to turn black walnut wearing a mask as I get congestion allergy reactions to it. Not so with Claro.

 

[Adam Cottrill]

I recently watched this video of a presentation on walnut by Mike Mahoney: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrQBMB7tWQw The talk is mostly focused on walnut species found predominantly in the Western states. Thought the folks reading this thread might find it interesting.

 

[Marvin Jones]

You might want to cut the sweet gum and see what you have. If you look at the third page of this forum, I asked the question "what kind of wood is this please?" My picture is a sweetgum bowl and there is another picture someone else posted of their sweetgum bowl, really pretty and so easy to turn.

 

[John Tisdale]

John T, I have to ask about your walnut sphere. Do you rough turn and hollow these? Which orientation do you use (end or face grain). What kind of wall thickness do you leave for drying? I've just acquired some large green alder pieces and would like to try my hand at something big. My biggest hollow sphere to date has been 8" and I did a single turn process on it.

Paul W,
You kinda asked the same question a few different ways - a straight-forward answer is: 1) I cut the outside to final form 2) I hollow to whatever thickness makes sense according to Bruce Hoadley's UNDERSTANDING WOOD, 3) boil everything but mesquite for two hours, 4) dry in a heated, dehumidified room for 8-mos to a year (shooting for 6% MC), 5) re-turn the outside, true the inside and finish. As to wall-thickness, I don't get too wrapped around that axle - I generally go to a bit over an inch thick on the rough - while boiling minimizes cracks, it does nothing for warping - a round 20" diameter vessel will be an egg a year later. Truing both inside and outside can get dicey if you didn't read your Hoadley.
The walnut globe was a face-grain (radial) turning - only mesquites are end-grain (axial) turned. All I do is large hollow-forms and my shop, tooling and finishing is thus geared.
You've seen the commercial "it's not nice to fool Mother Nature" - when you start doing large diameter, you can add "and stupid to try".
Good luck on the green alder - looking forward to seeing pics.

 

[Tim Tucker]

Just ordered Bruce Hoadley's book on your recommendation John. I also refer to John Jordan's DVDs on the subject:

DVD

High speed steel tool cutters that fit into John Jordan's hollowing tools as well as a few other systems.

www.johnjordanwoodturning.com

 

[John Tisdale]

Tim,
You'll be glad you did. While I don't think the word "woodturning" comes up, the laws of physics is the same for all "engineered" uses of wood.
Also worth you time, and free, is the following: http://www.lignomatusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/DryingLumber.pdf. While Gene Wengert's white paper is oriented to "lumber", the principles are the same.

As you're contemplating largish work, keep something in mind: You can avoid the center with most bowls and smaller hollow-forms. However, if you have a "big-boy" lathe and can mount a 200 - 300 pound log, you can do maybe a 20" finished piece - problem is, you have to deal with the center. And on a radial the center is generally close to or at the largest diameter and very visible - oh what to do. To aggravate the issue, the piece is shaped, hollowed, and dried before the warping is defined and the cracks are apparent - lots of time and effort invested. For what it's worth, the pictured walnut globe has several.

The subject is beyond a forum-post. Send pics when you get there - I can guarantee multiple opinions/solutions.

 

[Tim Tucker]

Thanks John!
Will look up the additional info you reference. I have a Robust AB.....But would love to find a monster big lathe at times ( I know...careful what you wish for...). Will keep you posted once I steel my nerves and dive into large hollowing.
T

 

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Thanks John!
Will look up the additional info you reference. I have a Robust AB.....But would love to find a monster big lathe at times ( I know...careful what you wish for...). Will keep you posted once I steel my nerves and dive into large hollowing.
T

Not that hard to build a very heavy wood turning setup Tim.

See what Vernon Leibrand used for his humungous bowls, basically a large block of concrete with a heavy shaft in large bearing pillow blocks and large motor.

Here is a picture of him turning a smaller bowl on it.

 

[Tim Tucker]

WOW...that is an awesome idea Leo. I will look at that as a real possibility. I have been looking for something similar in a pre made unit, like a VB 36 ...or Nichols lathe. but this is something that could be a fun project to build.

 

[JeffSmith]

See what Vernon Leibrand used for his humungous bowls...

Leo - don't use past tense with Vernon - he's still at it, I believe just a few miles from me.

 

[Phil Winch]

Sometimes even when you get it mounted you can have second thoughts.....

 

[John Tisdale]

I bought the log for planet mesquite and "then" built out the outboard side - I've used that outboard side three times: 1) Planet Mesquite, 2) a large cherry hollow-form I didn't want to trim with a chainsaw and 3) a 36" tall mesquite that was more was a bit iffy on the inboard.
The inboard accommodates 99% of what I found best for gallery sales. The like the 18" to 20" low profile and the 22" to 28" tall hollow-forms averaging 10" to maybe 14" in diameter. The wood, the design and, for sure, the finish create "presence". Not sure how to delineate "has presence" with "what can I do with that" - sometimes it's throw it on the wall and see if it sticks.

 

[robo hippy]

When I think of turning big, I think of the VB36. Not sure if they are made any more. I do remember, some years back where some turner made a big lathe out of concrete. Did a wonderful job, and it could turn very big. John Nichols does not make his lathes any more, but did see him at the AAW Symposium in Portland a few years back. Not really enough of a market for them.

robo hippy