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Can't wait to try ot out

Raul McCai

Raul McCai

Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
469
Likes
90
Location
nj
Hook tool. It's HSS I think M2. Little thang shore cost me plenty
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John Torchick said:
OK, what's it for? Nor familiar with a lot about turning.
Click to expand...
It is an old style tool that is becoming popular for endgrain hollowing of bowls, vases, goblets etc.

It can be used to hollow by cutting from the bottom center to the rim. This cuts the wood with supporting fibers behind them making a very clean cut.

The hook tool require some practice to master. Easy to get horrific catches.
 
I've made my own hook tools from O-1 tool steel. Cost was hardly anything other than my time.

I'll caution you that a hook tool isn't for the novice without some one on one mentoring. It is a hollowing tool that works best on green end-grain hollow forms and is used in a pull cut manner. I've heard it described as an inside-out bowl gouge and that is a pretty good way to describe what it does.
 
Raul McCai said:
Hey~! I'm all about getting the BB gun at age 8.
Click to expand...
Great parallel for an unfamiliar turning tool.
I owned a shotgun when I was 10. I don't know when I got a BB gun but it must have been 7 or 8.

A safe gift for an 8 year old when accompanied with some coaching.
Always treat is like it is loaded
Only load it whe you plan to shoot
Only pint it at things you intend to shoot.
 
I tried the Martel version. Worked until a bad catch broke it. Totally my fault.
Interesting tool.

I noticed that Japanese turners use variations of a hook tool, most of the time, in ways very different from us.

Makes me want to double back and try out a few of their techniques.

View: https://youtu.be/Cc4mD8t-xOs
 
Gotta love that guys wood rest how it doesn't lock down and the jam chuck and the rotation. Outside he keeps is below centerline and inside he keeps above and unlike the German he doesn't have it on its side.
I've considered pulling my lathe out into the open and working from the other side so I could have a solid reverse.
 
Raul McCai said:
Gotta love that guys wood rest how it doesn't lock down and the jam chuck and the rotation....
Click to expand...

And, the long loose floppy sleeves and holding the tool on both sides of the tool rest. :)

And a different way of adjusting toolrest height and of moving the toolrest position.

BTW, you haven't lived (or is it "died") until you have had a catch with a hook tool ... and you will participate in this memorable experience. It rivals the defibrillator paddles used to get your heart rhythm back in sync. Hang tough and don't let the heart stopping catches nor the unscheduled dismounts discourage you. Just remount the piece, straighten the tool shank, and forge ahead. And, don't worry about shooting your eye out with the Range Rider BB gun, you've got a spare. :D
 
Raul McCai said:
Outside he keeps is below centerline and inside he keeps above .
Click to expand...

I think in both cases, if he gets a catch, the chisel gets pulled away from the face. So makes sense to me.

Also he seems to have foot peddles, one to start the lathe, one for a brake.
I do like the way all the shavings fly away from his face.

The technique is VERY different, fascinating.
There are few videos I've found so far, and most are for turning small bowls.
But it would be interesting to see more of these and the use of hook tools.
 
A bit off topic but a real interest for me as I'm a Hunter Education instructor in TN. Got my first BB gun when I was 6, shotgun at 10, car at 18. People won't buy their kids a gun but will buy them a car. Go figure. The Ten Commandments for firearms safety are a must for any kid to memorize. The NRA Eddie Eagle safety program has won accolades from law enforcement agencies across the country. You can google it if you want to see what it entails.
"A safe gift for an 8 year old when accompanied with some coaching.
Always treat is like it is loaded
Only load it whe you plan to shoot
Only pint it at things you intend to shoot."

Interesting thread as I wasn't familiar with the hook tool. Thanks for the explanation and will have to look at the video when I have more time. Not into hollow forms yet but will look into the proper tools by working with the members of our local chapter.
 
hockenbery said:
Fun video,
Makes us appreciate the modern bowl gouge.
Seeing how slow it was working with the old tools.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is....... Looked like his gouge was made like the SRG's are. He did have something similar to the hook tool, but not quite the same, although it looked like it was used in the same fashion. He did make use of the center screw faceplate, which is my preferred method.......although I use waste blocks......so, no holes to deal with. Much of his technique hasn't changed over the years......I felt a real brotherhood with that guy!
 
Odie,

Did you notice the small catch he got while using the hook/ring tool on the bowl.
Looks like he had turned a few of these prior to filming the video. :-)
 
Mike Johnson said:
Odie,

Did you notice the small catch he got while using the hook/ring tool on the bowl.
Looks like he had turned a few of these prior to filming the video. :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, now that you mention it.....I thought I saw a little catch there. Guess I was concentrating on other things, and never took the video back to see the catch a little more closely. Looked like he was very familiar with how he did his lidded bowl, though. I guess we all get little catches now and then.......it's the really big ones that we learn to avoid! I've always felt the best cleanest cut you can get, is always very close to the edge of having a catch! o_O
 
Odie,

You got that right! It was kind of interesting that the German wood turner had flawless
skills with all of the tools until he got to the ring/hook tool. We are always looking for a
cleaner cut to reduce the amount of sanding required on the piece. Every wood turner
should use a straight razor to shave with to appreciate what a sharp tool presented at
the correct angle can do. :-)
Getting a tool catch on your face is a quick way to learn proper tool angles. :-)
 
Mike Hosaluk, a very respected Canadian turner, makes hook tools. He described it as the very end of a bowl gouge cut off and welded to the end of a bar. If you look at the hook tool and compare it to a bowl gouge (looking down the flute), you will see the similarity. Oneway's Termite is also similar but a complete ring. In use, start with the hole horizontal and then slowly rotate the tool clockwise until the bottom is at about the seven o'clock position. The further you rotate it, the more aggressive it becomes and the more likely you are to have a catch. As mentioned, they are designed for end grain hollowing such as goblets, boxes, etc. Properly used, they leave a very clean surface.
 
Vern Crandell said:
... In use, start with the hole horizontal and then slowly rotate the tool clockwise until the bottom is at about the seven o'clock position. The further you rotate it, the more aggressive it becomes and the more likely you are to have a catch. As mentioned, they are designed for end grain hollowing such as goblets, boxes, etc. Properly used, they leave a very clean surface.
Click to expand...

I agree, especially the part about becoming very aggressive if you rotate it too far. :D I think that a side grain hollowform increases the risk of getting a catch.
 
hockenbery said:
Great parallel for an unfamiliar turning tool.
I owned a shotgun when I was 10. I don't know when I got a BB gun but it must have been 7 or 8.

A safe gift for an 8 year old when accompanied with some coaching.
Always treat is like it is loaded
Only load it whe you plan to shoot
Only pint it at things you intend to shoot.
Click to expand...
when I was 11 I got my dads double barrel 12 gauge shotgun to kill a cat that was eating my fantail doves, pulled both triggers and that put me pretty near on my ass, much worse for the cat though ;)
 
odie said:
Yeah, now that you mention it.....I thought I saw a little catch there. Guess I was concentrating on other things, and never took the video back to see the catch a little more closely. Looked like he was very familiar with how he did his lidded bowl, though. I guess we all get little catches now and then.......it's the really big ones that we learn to avoid! I’ve always felt the best cleanest cut you can get, is always very close to the edge of having a catch! o_O
Click to expand...

I seen that old school movie before, and watched it a few times after, there is another one of a turner using skew and hook tool in a less conventional manner but with very professional result .
This is only the turning part, as there is a version that shows the harvesting of the wood etc plus the turning part.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhR9ALVd0Js
 
odie said:
This 1926 German video came up at the end of the Yasuhiro Satake video.
I found it to be extremely interesting.......
View: https://youtu.be/-z_Ph6nZfGE
Click to expand...

Anyone notice the sharpening stone he used appeared to be rotating away from the edge, instead of towards it?....as in the way we've evolved to do things with our motorized grinders. There didn't appear to be, nor a need to hone the bur......(for the sharpest possible edge.....maybe.....?) I wonder if there is any advantage to this technique that is useful to us.....?
 
odie said:
Anyone notice the sharpening stone he used appeared to be rotating away from the edge, instead of towards it?....as in the way we've evolved to do things with our motorized grinders. There didn't appear to be, nor a need to hone the bur......(for the sharpest possible edge.....maybe.....?) I wonder if there is any advantage to this technique that is useful to us.....?
Click to expand...

Odie outside our shop stood a big hand turned grindstone with water trough under it, something like 8” by 34” with a bit of a dip in it (softer spot) it was still used at times by other persons than us, to sharpen their axes and knives, I did use it a time or two, enough to add a very large flat pulley to it and a small motor, so you didn’t need a second person to crank the handle.

If you have the wheel turn towards you, you’d get soaking wet as the water would come over top of the tool you were sharpening, while if turning away from you, you’d only get wet if turning too fast.

Also with that rather soft stone you could get a dig-in turning towards you, so for those two reasons I assume it was used in that manner.

Dry hard stone probably better towards you, as it seems to be the conventional way, just watch it that you don’t set yourself on fire, DAMHIKT :oops: and I don’t want to re-invent the wheel again ;)
 
My motorized grinder (Tormek) rotates away from the edge. My grandfather had a hand powered grinding wheel and it was used with the wheel rotating away from the edge. With a slow turning wheel it is more likely that any eccentricity in the wheel will kick the tool back at you.
 
odie said:
Anyone notice the sharpening stone he used appeared to be rotating away from the edge, instead of towards it?....as in the way we've evolved to do things with our motorized grinders. There didn't appear to be, nor a need to hone the bur......(for the sharpest possible edge.....maybe.....?) I wonder if there is any advantage to this technique that is useful to us.....?
Click to expand...

I turn my scraper up side down to sharpen it. Get a nice burr that way.
 
There is a guy at our county fair every year that turns bowls and spoons on a springpole lathe. He uses only hook tools he makes himself. I had never seen one and asked about it. He said he could do almost anything conventional tools could do with different shaped hook tools. The reason they are not popular on powered lathes is catches will break them easily. No catches like that on a foot powered lathe.

After all we are taught about the right and wrong ways to do something it's amazing to see others equally successful with very different techniques.
 
odie said:
Anyone notice the sharpening stone he used appeared to be rotating away from the edge, instead of towards it?....as in the way we've evolved to do things with our motorized grinders. There didn't appear to be, nor a need to hone the bur......(for the sharpest possible edge.....maybe.....?) I wonder if there is any advantage to this technique that is useful to us.....?
Click to expand...
Like bill said the tormek is often used rotating away.
On my tormek I have a leather wheel charged with a compound for honing the tools after the grinding wheel.
I view the tormek as big advantage for the skew which is sharpened on both sides and cannot have a burr. Honing must be done on the skew.

Fomother turning toolsmit is hard to beat the CBN wheels.
 
Leo Van Der Loo said:
I seen that old school movie before, and watched it a few times after, there is another one of a turner using skew and hook tool in a less conventional manner but with very professional result .
This is only the turning part, as there is a version that shows the harvesting of the wood etc plus the turning part.It is appare

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhR9ALVd0Js
Click to expand...
It is apparent that this turner knows how to use a hook tool. I was amazed at the fixed tool rest and the way he worked off it.
 
Hook tools used on foot powered lathes have a much more acute cutting edge. So they cut very easily and cleanly. They would either not hold an edge long or would break if you get a catch on a powered lathe. The ring tools that I have are ground to a much more acute edge than most factory made hook tools that I've seen.
 
I do a lot of end grain hollowing. I had a hook tool. Been there, bought the ticket, got the catch - many of them. Sold the hook tool. I now use a 3/8" bowl gouge, free-hand sharpened. For those who don't free-hand sharpen, the grind that Hannes Michelsen puts on his gouges will work well. It has a very small cutting edge, a micro-bevel of less than 1/8".

BTW, the catch will happen as you transition from the bottom of the vessel into the curve that begins the wall. Wait for it.
 
Well, you guys will like this.

I mounted my hook tool to a three foot long, 1" diameter steel bar. Yah Three feet of one inch steel. A regular home defense weapon.
I had the bar-stock in the metal lathe already, so I figured - - - why not? I mean real depth of thought on that one.
And I wondered if maybe the mass might serve me some advantage if I got a catch.
- - - - - and of course - - - - -
I got a catch because I just couldn't resist the impulse to present it the wrong way. Just to see what happens. Yah, I was that kid who got a chip of steel in his brow by slamming hammers together. A quarter inch lower and ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Turns out - -
That massive steel bar made all the difference in the world. What would have been a spectacular catch was reduced to little more than a moment of alarm.

I expected the hook tool to be oh so much cleaner cutting than the gouge. Mmmmmppphh maybe, I dunno.

OK so now I have a hook tool. Call me peter pan. I am going to try it on a deep bowl from end grain of nice clean maple (oops ebony) that I'll dye jet black so no one will know I used Maple. Or maybe I'll leave it white. I dunno.
Yah and it's still mounted on the three feet of one inch diameter steel bar. I'm kind of liking the steel bar.

The one inch steel bar gives me an idea. I can mill a flat on it drill and tap and mount a hood for the hook tool to see if I can make a catch resistant hook tool that feeds material freely. That's the one complaint I have with my hooded tool I made. It uses a round carbide insert and material can get jammed in it.
 
Raul McCai said:
.
Yah and it's still mounted on the three feet of one inch diameter steel bar. I'm kind of liking the steel bar.
Click to expand...


For working a ways off the tool rest, there's nothing like a heavy steel bar.
At the silly end the spectrum, I have 1.5" bar, 4' long. Too heavy to hold, so I use a back rest as well.

But it dampens the vibrations beautifully and wright keeps it from jumping around.
I also used the Martel hook in there, sometimes a 1/4" scraper.

It the weight is a killer.
So I'm experimenting with 2-3' of steel bar, like you, with steel tubing slid over the end (1" ID). So far so good and much lighter.
 
Doing production turning as shown in the video, the fixed tool rest would be an advantage
over time, as your tool would always be presented and supported in the same manner
making each cut the same as the prior work piece. Very interesting video, the hook tool
has potential if you can master it's use.
 
From what I can see, and if I'm getting this right.......the hook and ring tools allow basically the same type of cut that a push cut does, but the user is actually pulling the tool through the cut......?
 
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