Oil vs oiless is another decision. I’ve read through the various threads and still don’t know how to decide what I want or need. Working backwards—what do I do? I turn bowls. So what do I need? How many gallons—which I guess is related to air flow pressure and time, quiet better than loud, oiless better than with oil from what I gather. Need help, advice, so let’s start a conversation. This is the “getting started” forum and I bet many of us newbies need a bit of guidance.
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Choosing a compressor: size, loudness, what else?
- Thread starter Alan Weinberg
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No one has ever complained about having too large a compressor.
I rarely use a compressor for bowls unless I’m sandcarving and/or airbrushing them.
Once in a while I might get heartwood stains in the sap wood - this can usually be blown off.
For hollow forms I use compressed air to blow the chips out while hollowing.
Also have a few air tools. Airbrush, sandblast cabinet….
I have a 60 gal Quincy 220 v that meets all my sandblasting needs. Inflates tires. It is also quieter than our pancake.
Need to change the oil once a year.
If you just want to blow out sapwood a small 8 gal pancake will do. I got one in a club raffle kept it because it’s portable.
Once in a while we use it for a quick job if we haven’t got the Quincy running.
The pancake won’t run an air tool very long.
Pancake would be ok for hollowing smaller forms. I use it in hollowing demos. It will also run an airbrush nicely. Put it outside.
Don’t use it at home because it is too loud. And it’s going to cycle on a lot.
It’s easy to size a compressor if you know the cfm of the tools you want to use.
There are lots of choices. If you will be using inside a small shop get the quietest you can afford.
I don’t like to wear hearing protection when turning because i get information hearing the turning
The Quincy is quiet and it’s a safe db level at the lathes and the blast cabinet.
Loudest noise is draining the tank at the end of the day.
Check with the local clubs. Maybe someone got a big compressor for Christmas and have a small one at a good price.
I rarely use a compressor for bowls unless I’m sandcarving and/or airbrushing them.
Once in a while I might get heartwood stains in the sap wood - this can usually be blown off.
For hollow forms I use compressed air to blow the chips out while hollowing.
Also have a few air tools. Airbrush, sandblast cabinet….
I have a 60 gal Quincy 220 v that meets all my sandblasting needs. Inflates tires. It is also quieter than our pancake.
Need to change the oil once a year.
If you just want to blow out sapwood a small 8 gal pancake will do. I got one in a club raffle kept it because it’s portable.
Once in a while we use it for a quick job if we haven’t got the Quincy running.
The pancake won’t run an air tool very long.
Pancake would be ok for hollowing smaller forms. I use it in hollowing demos. It will also run an airbrush nicely. Put it outside.
Don’t use it at home because it is too loud. And it’s going to cycle on a lot.
It’s easy to size a compressor if you know the cfm of the tools you want to use.
There are lots of choices. If you will be using inside a small shop get the quietest you can afford.
I don’t like to wear hearing protection when turning because i get information hearing the turning
The Quincy is quiet and it’s a safe db level at the lathes and the blast cabinet.
Loudest noise is draining the tank at the end of the day.
Check with the local clubs. Maybe someone got a big compressor for Christmas and have a small one at a good price.
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odie
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I use a lot of compressed air while turning.....especially when doing the interiors of bowls with undercut rims, and inward slanted rims. For many years, I had a 20gal compressor.....and, that darn thing would drive you nuts with the constant turning on and off.
^^^^ Al, is right on with this comment. About 15 years ago, I purchased an 80gal Campbell-Hausfield (Husky, from HD)....and, now I only hear this compressor turn on about once or twice per hour. That is much much better!
When you want to purchase a compressor, now is the time to start thinking BIG! You'll be so thankful you did!
-o-
^^^^ Al, is right on with this comment. About 15 years ago, I purchased an 80gal Campbell-Hausfield (Husky, from HD)....and, now I only hear this compressor turn on about once or twice per hour. That is much much better!
When you want to purchase a compressor, now is the time to start thinking BIG! You'll be so thankful you did!
-o-
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People do complain about noise though. California Air makes some pretty quiet compressors. I recently had to replace mine and I went with a California Air one and I've pleased with it.
My shop has a cast iron, twin cylinder compressor powered by a 3hp motor sitting on top of an 80 gal tank. And that was quite an upgrade from a small single cylinder compressor on a 20 gal tank. This upgrade required an electrical upgrade. In my situation going BIG was a really good move. The 'air' is there when needed; I'm not waiting on the compressor to 'catch up'; and that relentless cycling on and off is gone. This said, in most cases these larger units require 240 volts.
Dave Landers
Beta Tester
To be honest, based only on "I turn bowls" - you need nothing.
You might want a small compressor for blowing chips off the lathe, or for blowing dust out of open pored wood (if tack cloth or similar isn't doing the job for you). I've got a small California Air Tools unit (5.5 gal) that does that quite well, and is pretty quiet (60 dBA - I can still hear the tunes when it cycle).
If, instead, you are looking to power air tools - sanders, grinders, carvers, paint sprayers - well then you need a bigger unit...
You might want a small compressor for blowing chips off the lathe, or for blowing dust out of open pored wood (if tack cloth or similar isn't doing the job for you). I've got a small California Air Tools unit (5.5 gal) that does that quite well, and is pretty quiet (60 dBA - I can still hear the tunes when it cycle).
If, instead, you are looking to power air tools - sanders, grinders, carvers, paint sprayers - well then you need a bigger unit...
I think an air compressor is essential equipment for all kinds of shop tasks. More than anything, I use mine to blow the dust and shavings out of all my tools and out from behind shop furniture after a session. For some of us turners on a budget, this model serves very well for the money:
California Air Tools 8010
California Air Tools 8010
California compressor.
I think that’s a good choice, maybe the 8010ALFC. Thanks all. Now some wife convincing . . .
Roger Wiegand
Beta Tester
What are you doing with it? Almost anything will work for blowing chips out of a hollow form, but if you want to spray finishes, sand blast, or run pneumatic sanders the equation changes. I have a relatively cheap 80 gal unit from Home Depot that I keep hoping will die (it's been about 25 years now); it can't keep up with my little Grex pneumatic sander, and is at the edge of functionality for a HVLP conversion gun. I'd like at least double the CFM.
I put the compressor down in the old stable under the back end of my barn/shop. That solves the noise problem completely, but at the cost that I only remember to drain the water out of it once or twice a year. (did I mention that I'm hoping it will die so I can replace it?)
I put the compressor down in the old stable under the back end of my barn/shop. That solves the noise problem completely, but at the cost that I only remember to drain the water out of it once or twice a year. (did I mention that I'm hoping it will die so I can replace it?)
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I have a California Air Tools Unit. It was purchased from Wal Mart and direct shipped from CAT. The cost, delivered to my door was about 40% off CAT list price. The WM price went up immediately after I purchased the unit. I don't know if WM is still in that pricing mode.
If you look at the Harbor Freight Fortress Line compared to CAT, the origin is probably the same factory.
The key to a quiet direct driven compressor is the 1,725 rpm (4 pole, 1/2 speed) motor.
If you look at the Harbor Freight Fortress Line compared to CAT, the origin is probably the same factory.
The key to a quiet direct driven compressor is the 1,725 rpm (4 pole, 1/2 speed) motor.
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I have a Rolair horizontal type compressor. It is oil lubricated, but it not to hard to change the oil nor does it need to be changed very often. I had a small one, but it just runs too much...
The main considerations when buying a compressor.
1. CFM @90psi (this is based on how many CFM’s you need)
2. Duty cycle.
tank size is of little consequence and has no bearing on CFM,
output
1. CFM @90psi (this is based on how many CFM’s you need)
2. Duty cycle.
tank size is of little consequence and has no bearing on CFM,
output
odie
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It's true that tank size isn't related to CFM, but the larger the tank, the less often the compressor starts and stops.....and, unless your compressor is installed outside of your shop area, it's of significant consequences.
-o-
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Just depends on how you plan to use it. For just turning bowls, you dont need one. If you do other things, or want to be able to, it just depends how many cfm those tasks require.
Nothing wrong with getting a small cheap one (it will be oilless and loud) and see where it leads.
Just some thoughts:
> I don’t blow things off, it just sends dust into the air. I either brush it off to sweep up or vacuum it.
> HF’s - I rake chips out (I have several diy “rakes” depending on the piece) vs blowing stuff in the air. Sometimes air is the only way, though.
> Air tools use a huge amount of air. I have a few, but most of their functionality has been replaced will electric tools, especially sanding.
> If a did not want finish spraying capability I would probably have a small pancake compressor mainly to air tires up and run a brad/nail gun.
Nothing wrong with getting a small cheap one (it will be oilless and loud) and see where it leads.
Just some thoughts:
> I don’t blow things off, it just sends dust into the air. I either brush it off to sweep up or vacuum it.
> HF’s - I rake chips out (I have several diy “rakes” depending on the piece) vs blowing stuff in the air. Sometimes air is the only way, though.
> Air tools use a huge amount of air. I have a few, but most of their functionality has been replaced will electric tools, especially sanding.
> If a did not want finish spraying capability I would probably have a small pancake compressor mainly to air tires up and run a brad/nail gun.
I bought a twin cylinder 60 gallon and plumbed it (sweat fit copper) into my garage and basement shop. When I bought the shop around the corner, I bought another one for over there. I have a sandblast cabinet and change my own tires, so I like to have a decent capacity. It's some off brand, but they both have sone well. They were about $600 each.
Dave Landers
Beta Tester
If I have a HF w/ a large enough opening, I vacuum- I jammed and duct taped a length of 1” copper pipe into the end of a shop vac hose. As I often do side grain HFs where the shavings are long and stringy - they won’t blow out, so rake or vac are the options.
I have a small California Air Tools compressor that I use to run a brad nailer and do the minor air using things posted by other turners above. At times I wish I had a larger one to run air tools or do some spraying, but the size, loudness, and need for 220V have stopped me so far.
I see that CAT makes a "2HP" compressor that runs on 110 and delivers about 5 CFM at 90 psi. I wonder if it would be possible to link two of them in parallel to give enough air for larger tasks? Cost for a unit with a 10 gallon tank + a second unit that is the compressor only (SP-9421) with no tank would be about $800. They draw 14 amps so would need to be on separate circuits.
I see that CAT makes a "2HP" compressor that runs on 110 and delivers about 5 CFM at 90 psi. I wonder if it would be possible to link two of them in parallel to give enough air for larger tasks? Cost for a unit with a 10 gallon tank + a second unit that is the compressor only (SP-9421) with no tank would be about $800. They draw 14 amps so would need to be on separate circuits.
Most air tools are rated by CFM/PSI. size your compressor to the amount of CFM you need to run your air tools. Too little CFM will cause your compressor to run continuously,no matter the size of your tank.
a large tank may cause your compressor to cycle less often but the run time of each cycle will be longer. Thus the actual run time of the compressor will be the same no matter the size of the tank. The only significant statistic on compressors is CFM/PSI and duty cycle.
Blast cabinets and sand blasters use high volume(CFM) and high pressure (PSI) air.
Bottom line, size your compressor to toe work you are doing. If it is too loud put it outside or put it in a sound closet.
a large tank may cause your compressor to cycle less often but the run time of each cycle will be longer. Thus the actual run time of the compressor will be the same no matter the size of the tank. The only significant statistic on compressors is CFM/PSI and duty cycle.
Blast cabinets and sand blasters use high volume(CFM) and high pressure (PSI) air.
Bottom line, size your compressor to toe work you are doing. If it is too loud put it outside or put it in a sound closet.
The number of cycles is more important on traditional "loud" compressors. I've got the CAT 10 gal/2 hp--it can cycle on & off and i hear very little difference, can continue a conversation (even if it's with another human instead of just me talking to me). As noted above, it's rated at 5.3 cfm @90 psi. Compared to the old HF it replaced, and the Bostich pancake--the CAT is light enough to be considered portable and i'd have no problem with any air nailer i've looked at. Don't know about spraying, but it's probably in range for low-end needs.
odie
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^^^^^This is true, with the notation that the larger the CFM, the less time the compressor will run.
This discussion made me check to see the CFM on my compressor. (See post #3, link below)
It's 12.6 SCFM @ 90psi.
As I said, I use a lot of compressed air while turning bowls, and run time plus frequency is a factor for me. I'm very thankful to have had the foresight to purchase this high volume output compressor, combined with an 80 gallon tank.
-o-
I have a Campbell hausfeld (30 gallon?) compressor that I thought was making a knocking noise so I went and replaced it with a harbor freight fortress 26 gallon ultra that they advertise as being 80% quieter than other compressors.
They must be comparing it to a pancake compressor or something because it's not noticeably quieter to me. It's a higher pitch of noise and yes might be quieter but not a lot. I moved the Campbell compressor back out to the garage in case I have a low tire or something and now I don't notice the knocking sound anymore.. go figure.
It does seem like I get less water in the system with the new harbor freight and I don't run any kind of dryer. Just used mostly to blow off dust between grits to hopefully cut down on scratches. I also bought the harbor freight because the water drain is on the front of the tank where you can turn it with your foot and not have to get down on the floor to access the petcock like most tanks.
Only problem with that is it doesn't push the water out like someone had said it would. You have to tip it forward to get the water out of the tank which is a nuisance.
They must be comparing it to a pancake compressor or something because it's not noticeably quieter to me. It's a higher pitch of noise and yes might be quieter but not a lot. I moved the Campbell compressor back out to the garage in case I have a low tire or something and now I don't notice the knocking sound anymore.. go figure.
It does seem like I get less water in the system with the new harbor freight and I don't run any kind of dryer. Just used mostly to blow off dust between grits to hopefully cut down on scratches. I also bought the harbor freight because the water drain is on the front of the tank where you can turn it with your foot and not have to get down on the floor to access the petcock like most tanks.
Only problem with that is it doesn't push the water out like someone had said it would. You have to tip it forward to get the water out of the tank which is a nuisance.
I wondered if I could find the same website and product. They've gone up a bit.
Puma PK-6060V 3-HP 60-Gallon Belt Drive Single-Stage Air Compressor 208/230V 1-Phase
Buy Puma PK-6060V Direct. Free Shipping. Check the Puma 3-HP 60-Gallon (Belt Drive) Single-Stage Air Compressor (208/230V 1-Phase) ratings before checking out.
www.aircompressorsdirect.com
odie
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They've gone up a bit.
Look around......absolutely everything has gone up.....sometimes more than just a bit!
-o-
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My 60 gal Quincy has a 100% duty cycle
15.4 cfm at 90 psi
15.6 cfm at 40 psi
For sand blasting when I use the pressure pot gun with an 1/8” nozzle it uses 15 cfm at 80 psi
When I use the syphon feed harbor freight gun with an 1/8” nozzle the spec is 9.5cfm at 90 psi
My biggest surprise when I got a 60 gal Quincy about 10 years ago was how quiet it was.
measure it with my Apple Watch. 79&80 db. right at the compress the spec from the northern tool says 80 db.
67 db at my blast cabinet about 15 feet away. Lathes are further away.
70 db or below is supposed to be safe,
15.4 cfm at 90 psi
15.6 cfm at 40 psi
For sand blasting when I use the pressure pot gun with an 1/8” nozzle it uses 15 cfm at 80 psi
When I use the syphon feed harbor freight gun with an 1/8” nozzle the spec is 9.5cfm at 90 psi
My biggest surprise when I got a 60 gal Quincy about 10 years ago was how quiet it was.
measure it with my Apple Watch. 79&80 db. right at the compress the spec from the northern tool says 80 db.
67 db at my blast cabinet about 15 feet away. Lathes are further away.
70 db or below is supposed to be safe,
I have no air tools and don’t even know what ones I would need at this point. I’m relegated to beside the garage—outside—with my PM3520, so storage space is a consideration. CAT seems popular and at this point I’m unsure what I’d use it for other than blowing myself clean before entering the house and clearing chips/dust from turnings. I’m a newbie, less than a year turning, and I ask a lot of questions. I’ve turned only simple bowls, no segmented or embellished or carved bowls. But I’m not sure what the future holds. The CAT 8010ALFC seems fine. I’d run it in garage while I’m outside and store it covered outside. It’s 8 gallon and 3 CFM at 90 psi.
Thanks all! Good discussion. I learned a lot.
California Air has a section where one can figure out need based on application. Here is the woodworking section:
Thanks all! Good discussion. I learned a lot.
California Air has a section where one can figure out need based on application. Here is the woodworking section:
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I had a Sears 20 gal unit for about 25 years. Cast iron motor that I rewired to 220. Every 5 or so years I had to patch the tank due to pinhole leaks. Had to have ear protection as it was LOUD! Had to crawl on the floor every time I wanted to drain it.
Finally pulled the trigger on a California Air two years ago, got the 220v twin with a 60 gallon vertical. Wonderful system. Can stand right next to it and have a conversation. It has an auto drain that purges every few minutes when it's running. With the larger tank it runs a lot less often.
Highly recommended. A few things if you are considering one of these:
- A vibration mat under it. The compressor is quiet, but if you set it directly on a concrete floor you'll get vibration noise conducted through your floor.
- Route the auto drain hose into a container. I used a quart sized plastic bottle with some rocks inside to catch any drain water. At first I had the hose loose and found water sprayed all over.
I've owned the Husky 30 Gallon Ultra-Quiet C302H compressor (Home Depot) for a few years and am very happy with it. One of my requirements was that it run on 120V. "Ultra-Quiet" may be a bit of a misnomer but at 75db it is certainly a lot quieter that my little pancake compressor. I don't feel the need to put on hearing protection unless it and my Oneida dust collector are running simultaneously. I use it for woodturning and embellishing with an air powered angle grinder (for sanding), die grinders, air saw, and scaler and I vastly prefer the air powered tools to electric. At 30 gallons, it does cycle fairly frequently when sanding but I also use it for airbrushing, piercing (with a dental drill), and with a vacuum chuck (using the HoldFast venturi system) and it cycles much less frequently with them. Oh yeah, and I blow dust off of stuff and inflate tires. Not sure there is a big difference anymore with oil vs. oil-less but it's very easy to change the oil on this one when needed.
Agreed. I do have a compressor but I don’t use it much. If I do need a little air for any reason I can swap the hose on my shop vac from the suction port to the exhaust port. Combined with a a tapered nozzle it works quite well and is not as noisy as my compressor.
TL;DR I agree with Odie.
Blah: I feel the need to add my un scientific/mostly subjective opinion here as the thread starts to taper...
I am not impressed by oil-less compressors. the cylinder head is about the same dimensions as a soda can bottom upside down.
I have the very low quality HF 30 gal compressor and have replaced the starter cap, rebuild the check valve and cut new head gaskets for the single stage 'valve.' Aside from it actually doing the job for the last 12 years with perhaps $20 in supplies/parts, I would never purchase it ever again.
I would take the Odie approach and snag a monster of an 80+ gal with at least 2 cylinders and 10CFM+ @115psi. I would also add a condensing coil before the check valve to protect the tank from moisture. Granted I use my compressor to maintain my family's fleet of cars using pneumatic tools and inflate the stables of kids (+grown up kid's) bicycles/wagons and cars...
I can accept this is not a reasonable cost unit and essentially has to be built, which is my intent in the next 5 years.
Blah: I feel the need to add my un scientific/mostly subjective opinion here as the thread starts to taper...
I am not impressed by oil-less compressors. the cylinder head is about the same dimensions as a soda can bottom upside down.
I have the very low quality HF 30 gal compressor and have replaced the starter cap, rebuild the check valve and cut new head gaskets for the single stage 'valve.' Aside from it actually doing the job for the last 12 years with perhaps $20 in supplies/parts, I would never purchase it ever again.
I would take the Odie approach and snag a monster of an 80+ gal with at least 2 cylinders and 10CFM+ @115psi. I would also add a condensing coil before the check valve to protect the tank from moisture. Granted I use my compressor to maintain my family's fleet of cars using pneumatic tools and inflate the stables of kids (+grown up kid's) bicycles/wagons and cars...
I can accept this is not a reasonable cost unit and essentially has to be built, which is my intent in the next 5 years.
I agree duty cycle is very important. If it is anything less than 100% it is not rated to run non-stop, and sometimes I want it to. I would like to have a big 60 gallon permanently installed, but my current compromise is a Rolair VT25BIG, which has a 100% duty cycle rating. They class it as a hand-carry, but it's a substantial unit; there are times I do want to move it (I also have a small trim compressor for smaller jobs). Rolair are very good machines, and I am very happy with this, except it is a bit loud. Rolair VT25BIG I don't use a compressor much for turning, more for general shop work.