Chris Bahn

[Chris Bahn]

Hi there. I've just joined the group, and am a novice woodturner, living in E TN near Knoxville. I inherited my Dad's lathe, a late 20th century model Woodfast M408. Though my Dad had shown me how to do basic turning years ago, and I've more recently (past 5 years) taken a couple classes, elder-care issues have prevented me from EVER making the time to get on the lathe. Thus, my lathe has been dormant 5+ years, and I've never taken it up.

That said, a gentleman in our local community woodworking group has graciously given me 2 lessons this past week, and I completed my first vessel (see first photo). I'm really happy with it (despite the Long Hours of reaming it out ! Unfortunately, though, in the midst of the work this week, my tailstock somehow locked up and I believe is totally fried now. Either the threads of the guide wheel got cross-threaded, or other internal parts malfunctioned. And, unfortunately, this model is no longer made and the manufacturer has no spare tailstock or parts. I HATE that I'm now hamstrung prior to really getting my feet wet, as I'm totally out of operation until I figure out how to proceed.

Being brand new to this organization, I'm likely posting the following in the wrong forum, so I'll beg forgiveness now...and proceed. Does anyone in the club have advice as to where I can find an OEM tailstock? Or, a comparable tailstock (mine is 8-1/4")? Other fix?

Thanks.

Chris Bahn

 

[John K Jordan]

Hi Chris!
I’m not familiar with that lathe, but most tailstocks I’ve seen have been basically the same, with a quill that slides in and out with the rotation of the threaded shaft turned by the handwheel. Most have a slot machined down the length with an adjustment screw/nut to take up slop for a smooth motion - if that adjustment is too tight it can lock the quill and prevent the handwheel from turning.

Also, most have a lever that tightens a fitting to lock the quill - if that is jammed the handwheel won’t turn.

Another thing I’ve seen lock a quill is one that was warped/bent. I had to really work to get that one out and fix the kink.

You might try removing the handwheel. Some are held on the end of the threaded shaft by a couple of set screws. Depending again on how that one is made, removing the handwheel might let you inspect and try to loosen the threads. (from the picture your’s may be different from what I’m familiar with.) If the threaded shaft is not cross-threaded but jammed with gunk or rust, it might just need some penetrating solution or heat or cold applied.

Are you in or near Tellico Village? If you can’t find a replacement tailstock there is a guy there who worked on an old Rockwell/Delta lathe I gave to someone in T.V., said to be a mechanical wizard on both old and new equipment. I’d be glad to take a look at the tailstock but I’m way up in Clinton, and that guy would be better anyway. I don’t know his name but can try to find out and get contact info.

Do you have a manual for that lathe with a parts diagram? That might help.

JKJ

 

[Chris Bahn]

Thanks John! Yes, I'm I Tellico Village. Bill Nance is a great tool man, and he has taken a preliminary look, however no fix (yet). I'm told there's another person here within Tellico that can potentially even build a replacement, but I haven't yet hooked up with him.

We have indeed taken apart all the screws and levers and the hand wheel won't budge. Really strange. I'm now in the process of trying to knock the whole quill assembly outward toward the hand wheel. It's somewhat stuck for now, as a small dimple on the quill cylinder has it blocked-up, despite lots of WD-40 lubing.

PS - I do have the parts manual.

Thanks again, John.

 

[Matt hale]

So is the hand wheel itself stuck or the quill. The only things I see on the diagram are a pin driven from the bottom, the locking lever, and a keeper plate that goes through the housing into the slot in the hand wheel.

 

[Bill Boehme]

The keyway on the tailstock quill can sometimes develop a burr especially after a lot of use with inadequate lubrication or cranking the handwheel while the quill is locked. I had this problem on a Delta lathe. I chamfered the edges of the keyway after I finally got the quilt out.

 

[Chris Bahn]

So is the hand wheel itself stuck or the quill. The only things I see on the diagram are a pin driven from the bottom, the locking lever, and a keeper plate that goes through the housing into the slot in the hand wheel.

Matt: The handwheel is totally locked, and won't budge. As such, I can't manipulate the quill at all. Does that answer your Q's? Should I include other photos of the entire tailstock Assy? And thanks for trying to help!

 

[John K Jordan]

I'd like to see the exploded view of the parts diagram, along with the relevant part of the parts list, if that's no too much trouble. It would be interesting to compare to the tailstocks I've worked on.

 

[Matt hale]

It looks to me like the quill has moved too far towards the hand wheel side of the housing. The slot in the hand wheel should line up with the slot in the top of the housing. Also in the diagram it shows the quill being installed from opposite side of the hand wheel. Maybe the quill has become bound on the pin in front or the plate.

 

[Matt hale]

 

[Matt hale]

Make sure 38,41,53 are removed.

 

[Bob Vaughan]

Are the threads left hand?

 

[Chris Bahn]

The keyway on the tailstock quill can sometimes develop a burr especially after a lot of use with inadequate lubrication or cranking the handwheel while the quill is locked. I had this problem on a Delta lathe. I chamfered the edges of the keyway after I finally got the quilt out.

Thanks Bill. I'll check that once I can finish banging the quill out of its current prison.

 

[John K Jordan]

The diagram helps a lot. If part 43 is missing or if it came out and was put back incorrectly that could be the problem. Never saw one made that way.
Since the threads are visible at the handwheel you could see if they have left or right hand treads.
If the three parts Matt mentioned are removed the fix might be straightforward.

 

[Matt hale]

Maybe Odie will jump on here. I know he has a wood fast, possibly same design tail stock.

 

[Chris Bahn]

So is the hand wheel itself stuck or the quill. The only things I see on the diagram are a pin driven from the bottom, the locking lever, and a keeper plate that goes through the housing into the slot in the hand wheel.

 

[Chris Bahn]

Thanks for all the inputs John, Matt, Bill and Bob; sure appreciate it. This is only allowing me to post 4 photos. I'll try to add about 6 more next. I've now knocked the quill out, to the hand wheel end, as the locked-up hand wheel prevented me removing the quill in the direction of the headstock end. The hand wheel and quill assemblies are totally locked together.

I did remove parts 38 and 41, however the little pin (#53) doesn't appear to protrude into the cylinder area where the quill fits. I'm not sure why that pin #53 is even there; it's still in place and I'm not even sure how to remove it. On the pics I'll post next, you can easily see the quill "burr" (about 3/8" from the end of the quill closest to the headstock end), which I had assumed was causing some of the problem. However, the inner quill at that end has a vertical slot which I'm thinking that burr actually fits in (see photo), and might be a purposeful burr.

I believe the threading leading from the quill into the hand wheel is left-handed. If I'm looking at it correctly, the end threading appears to disappear from right to left. And, the threading is still locked into the hand wheel. Key photos to follow. Thanks again.

 

[Chris Bahn]

Thanks for all the inputs John, Matt, Bill and Bob; sure appreciate it. This is only allowing me to post 4 photos. I'll try to add about 6 more next. I've now knocked the quill out, to the hand wheel end, as the locked-up hand wheel prevented me removing the quill in the direction of the headstock end. The hand wheel and quill assemblies are totally locked together.

I did remove parts 38 and 41, however the little pin (#53) doesn't appear to protrude into the cylinder area where the quill fits. I'm not sure why that pin #53 is even there; it's still in place and I'm not even sure how to remove it. On the pics I'll post next, you can easily see the quill "burr" (about 3/8" from the end of the quill closest to the headstock end), which I had assumed was causing some of the problem. However, the inner quill at that end has a vertical slot which I'm thinking that burr actually fits in (see photo), and might be a purposeful burr.

I believe the threading leading from the quill into the hand wheel is left-handed. If I'm looking at it correctly, the end threading appears to disappear from right to left. And, the threading is still locked into the hand wheel. Key photos to follow. Thanks again.

View attachment 75011

 

[Chris Bahn]

This next-to-last photo shows the vertical groove I mentioned which the purposeful quill "burr" possibly moves within.

 

[Matt hale]

Chris it looks like the pin sheared off from the hand wheel being over tightened which caused that vertical groove in the last picture. You need the pin there as that is what the key way fits over. Just take a punch and knock the pin out, clean the burrs out of the bore and quill. You should be able to find a roll pin at any hardware store fit. As for your hand wheel, hold the quill in a vise with v-blocks or wood. Heat the hand wheel and try to loosen with a big pair of channel locks or pipe wrench.

 

[John K Jordan]

Heat the hand wheel and try to loosen with a big pair of channel locks or pipe wrench

Sometimes it helps to cool the inside part at the same time. Freeze spray can help. Usually doesn’t take much.

 

[Chris Bahn]

Chris it looks like the pin sheared off from the hand wheel being over tightened which caused that vertical groove in the last picture. You need the pin there as that is what the key way fits over. Just take a punch and knock the pin out, clean the burrs out of the bore and quill. You should be able to find a roll pin at any hardware store fit. As for your hand wheel, hold the quill in a vise with v-blocks or wood. Heat the hand wheel and try to loosen with a big pair of channel locks or pipe wrench.

Matt - Keeping in mind I’m a novice in lathes and terminology… You feel the vertical quill groove shouldn’t actually be present? And is the “keyway” the slot that’s present in the full length of the quill?

By “burrs on the bore and quill”, do you mean “any” disruptions in the smooth surfaces of each? And is the “bore” the inner surface of the tailstock housing? How best to do the deburring?

Should I ask the hardware store for a “roll pin”, by that name (new term to me)? Should the new roll pin protrude fully into the depth of the keyway groove?


For me to break loose the hand wheel from the quill, is the wood.’s purpose simply to protect the outer quill surface from the vice teeth?

“Heat the hand wheel and try to loosen with a big pair of channel locks or pipe wrench” - Heat with a heat gun or hairdryer?

Thanks.

 

[Chris Bahn]

Sometimes it helps to cool the inside part at the same time. Freeze spray can help. Usually doesn’t take much.

John - Apply the freeze spray inside the quill, while heating the hand wheel portion?? And what area of a hardware store can I find that spray?

 

[John K Jordan]

John - Apply the freeze spray inside the quill, while heating the hand wheel portion?? And what area of a hardware store can I find that spray?

Inside the quill would prob work (the cold contracts while the heat expands - and can help loosen gunked-up threads.) I think the freeze spray is flammable so I heat one part, move the flame, spray the other part, then try loosening. Note that you don’t have to heat anything to red hot!!!

I bought my cans of freeze spray at an electronics shop long ago. (I often used it when searching for problem components on circuit boards or suspected hairline cracks. But I just got a good IR camera which would be quicker to locate hot spots!)

I see Amazon carries freeze spray. Not real cheap. (I’ve also used dry ice for this, sold in some supermarkets - don’t hold pieces with any fingers you want to keep in good condition!)

If I were doing it, I’d try turning the wheel after each step.
1. soaking overnight in penetrating fluid. I use PB blaster.
2. Tap the wheel all around with a small ball-peen hammer - mechanical shock can help.
3. Heat the handwheel.
4. Apply cold to the quill.
Might try reversing 3 and 4, one immediately after the other.

Be sure of the thread direction before applying twisting force to anything! The tailstocks I’ve worked on had left-hand threads so the quill would extended when the handwheel was turned clockwise.

All of this benefits from experience. If you have someone near by, see if they can take a look. May have other ideas after seeing it.

JKJf

 

[Matt hale]

The slot running lengthwise on the quill is the keyway. When the quill is installed with the keyway facing down, the roll pin goes into the slot. That is what keeps the quill from rotating when turning the handwheel. The vertical groove had to be made when the roll pin sheared off from the handwheel being over tightened in the counter clockwise direction. As far as the burrs go a flat file and some Emory cloth will take them off. The bore I referred to is the hole in the tail stock housing. The parts manual lists the roll pin as 5/32” diameter by 1/2” long. You might have better luck finding one at an auto parts store but most hardware stores should have one.

 

[hughie]

Old Woodfast 408 they are getting hard to find, mainly cos folks dont part with them. In my humble opinion the model they made, I was after one for years. But welcome aboard , you will enjoy it here as there some very talented folk here.