Chuckless Lathe....

[GothycDesigns]

Hello, I am about to start turning my first of very many bowls. But at this time my lathe is a different beast of sorts. Meaning that I have a Central Machinery lathe from Harbor Freight tools. I couldn't help it and it was on sale and wanted to turn ASAP. I have done a few pens with it and has worked fine.

But now that I read articles and some books, I see that a chuck is used often. I have tried looking a for a chuck but have not found the right thread pattern from anyone. I have 3/4" spindle but the thread is 8TPI. most of them in that 3/4" is 16TPI.

So my question, has anyone come across a problem like this before and have adapted their own jigs to attach a chuck.. My lathe is a 14" x 40". Just to give further dim. of what I am using. I have seen somewhere recently that someone, I think the name was or of the website was TurnedTreasures.
He uses a larger faceplate for the opening of a bowl to hold it while he finishes the bottom. I was wonder do other. So when I go to do the inside what can I do now?

Any help greatly appreciated can reply here or PM or email are welcomed.

Thanks for reading this.

Ray
~Gothyc Designs

 

[Ken Grunke]

3/4" x 8 tpi is definitely an odd size. The helix angle on that must be quite pronounced. That's relevant mainly only to a machinist who has to cut the threads.
If you can't find an adapter for an existing scroll chuck, I'd say have a machinist take a faceplate that's sold for this lathe and use it to make an adapter. Easier, and therefore cheaper, than starting from scratch. Boring out a 3/4-8 hole is not an easy task, believe me--I have experience machining coarse threads like this, being a serious hobby machinist, and it's no piece of cake.

As for your question, I think you're referring to a friction chuck, to drive a bowl for turning the bottom and outside. That would be a wood or plywood disk mounted on a faceplate, turned to fit inside the bowl and padded with leather, or foam. If you had turned the chunk between centers to start with, you'd have something to poke the tailstock center into, pressing it against the padded disk to give enough friction for driving the bowl and it would be perfectly centered (theoretically).
Otherwise, to get the bowl centered for turning the bottom, you can search for the center by trial and error using the toolrest as a reference point. A better way, if you started the bowl blank on a faceplate or chuck and not between centers, is a special centerpunch that fits into the threaded hole of the faceplate or chuck, and pokes a centered mark on the bottom of the wood. Crafts Supplies stocks a center marker for different sizes of spindles, this one for a 3/4" spindle should fit into any thread pitch as it simply slides into the minor diameter of a threaded hole:
http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/cgi-bin/shopper?preadd=action&key=955-1100

I almost always start a bowl blank between centers, for one thing it's safer--and having that little centered dimple on the bottom makes reverse chucking much easier. This is the method that seems the most popular and effective for turning a bowl from start to finish:
1). Mounted between centers, turn the base to suit the mounting method--either for a faceplate, or a chuck and turn the outside to close to desired profile.
2). Mount blank on faceplate or chuck, hollow and finish-turn the interior.
3). Reverse-mount the bowl, using a friction-drive chuck, vacuum chuck, Cole jaws on a scroll chuck, Longworth chuck, or (did I forget anything?). Generally you need to take a final finishing pass on the whole exterior of a bowl, to blend in with the final cuts on the bottom. Tailstock support is important here, after all the work put into the bowl so far you don't want to lose that! You can do almost all the finishing of the bottom until the last little bit, which is trimmed with a chisel and sanded.

 

[Bill Boehme]

How did you determine the diameter? Was it stated in the manual or did you measure it? If you measured it, the pitch diameter will be les than 7/8" and the root diameter will be just a bit over 3/4" so it is possible that the thread size is actually 1 X 8. It is also possible that it may be a metric size, in which case, Oneway Mfg. could provide a chuck with the correct size threaded insert. They can also make custom inserts.

Bill

 

[grandy]

chuckless lathe

I have the same lathe from harbor freight, 14"X40" swivel head. It's exactly the same as the Grizzly model G1067Z. I have had no problem ordering a chuck or anything else so far. Got mine off Ebay for $100.00 and I love it.

 

[Brian Myers]

Gothyc-
which HF 14x40 do you have? #38515 or #45276 ?
35515 is 3/4 x 10 and the manual for the 45276 does not specify the spindle size. The Grizzly G1067Z is 1 x 12.

 

[GothycDesigns]

Hey everyone, thanks for the input. I looked for the model # and it is #45276.
The ¾ x 10 sounds more familiar. But not sure if it is a 5/8. I'll have to go and match it again at the hardware store. How I came up with the TPI was taking my spur drive from the spindle to the hardware store. I then looked for a bolt that would screw into the spur drive. It had a little wriggle to it like it wasn't completely same thread but it was the best match I came up with.

I actually had my father-in-law make a adapter for me to turn pens. He did the best he could with his equip., but has a slight imbalance by a 16th on one side. No biggies for now. But not really wanting to go that route for a faceplate, just in case it not being tapped truly.

I'll have to contact Grizzly and find out what they say. So me being on a budget, I'll have to try to find something that may work for less than $100.
But will definitely look into it.

Thanks again.

Ray
~Gothyc Designs

 

[Bill Boehme]

Lay a ruler next to the spindle threads so that zero is on a thread peak and count the number of turns in 1" or if the threaded portion is short, use 1/2" and multiply the results by two. Don't count the thread at zero. To get the diameter, measure across the outside of the threads -- the actual diameter will be a bit greater than what you measure -- for instance, a 3/4 inch spindle will measure a bit over 11/16 inch. If the crown of the threads have been flattened then the diameter may be less than 11/16 which may be the reason that you are thinking that it is possibly 5/8 inch. Is the spindle solid or does it have a Morse taper socket? If your lathe has a Morse taper socket in the spindle then your options on different types of drive accessories is greatly improved.

Bill

 

[john lucas]

Lay a piece of paper across the threads. rubb a pencil across the paper. This will mark the top of the threads. Lay a ruler over this and count the number of marks per inch. That will be the thread count. Then measure the outside diameter of the threads. That will be the size.
You can probably order one from www.bestwoodtools.com. If they don't carry that adaptor they can make one. You want to adapt it to a common size such as 1"x8.

 

[Ed_McDonnell]

According to the specs on the harbor freight web site, your minimum speed on that lathe is over 1000 rpm. If your blanks are not perfectly balanced you may find that turning anyting more than a couple inches in diameter may be pretty hair raising.

A good quality chuck will cost more than you spent on the lathe. With budget constraints, you might want to investigate using glue blocks and faceplates to mount your blanks.

A good face plate will run you $50 or less. Oneway will custom thread a faceplate to whatever you want for an additional $20. That gets you in at less the $100.

Good Luck.

Ed

 

[Jeff Myroup]

Just my two cents, you could purchase a screw thread pitch gauge. They only cost a couple of bucks, and any good supply company like Lowes or home depot should have them. It looks like a set of feeler gauges, but has teeth when you open it. Just keep trying until you find the set that matches up and presto you have TPI. Works for female and male thread alike.

Jeff

 

[GothycDesigns]

OK...I stopped by the hardware store and matched up the threads on my spur. It is a match to a 3/4" x 10 TPI. And fits well.

Since the lathe was cheap, it is only a thread on application, no taper on the spindle. It does have a #2 Morse Taper on the tailstock, which I find kinda funny. You'd think it be the other way. I do plan on buying a new lathe sometime soon once I gather some money. So that I can have better options for accessories.

I was hoping someone would mention the glue block faceplate idea. Is there a article or site that describes in making one? I figure that could be my main route at this time.

Jet seems to be nice product. Any thought on other brands. Some one mentioed Grizzly are they ok??


Thanks for the input everyone. I'll be back probably with more questions.

Ray

 

[MichaelMouse]

OK...I stopped by the hardware store and matched up the threads on my spur. It is a match to a 3/4" x 10 TPI. And fits well.

Since the lathe was cheap, it is only a thread on application, no taper on the spindle. It does have a #2 Morse Taper on the tailstock, which I find kinda funny. You'd think it be the other way.

Makes sense to have the safety slip built in before the points contact the wood. Lathes with belts are just fine with the screw-on center, while direct-drive types have to resort to slipping centers. The taper is just a convenient way of centering things consistently, with maybe a little bit of slip under a catch. The reason you see it in the tailstock is because boring operations either through the tail or with a chuck require some way to change and center.

http://www.woodturns.com/articles/tools/mounting_wood.htm For a good, if quirky place to look for alternative mounting methods, though there has been more than one individual who's bored a slightly undersize hole in a piece of maple and driven the nut down the resulting, with a bit of epoxy to help hold. Truing on the lathe itself seems to produce a fair faceplate, and if you start thick, you just keep parting the plate rather than the piece until you hit metal. I used tapered mortises in the plate, tapered tenons in the piece to help center.

 

[GothycDesigns]

So i have looked at some methods for turning without a chuck per-se'. But I was curious as to what glue to use. I now understand attaching a waste block to the faceplate itself. But then I glue the work piece onto that?

I read you can just glue on, Do I use Elmers, Titebond, or even Hot melt glue.
I guess it would be preference. Main right now I'll be trying to turn small bowls. Something to put extra change or jewelry, car keys of sort to 4"6" dia. by 2-3" deep.

Has anyone used any of these methods and how did it work for you??

Do I let the glue dry for 1 day before turning, or if using hotmelt, can I start turning in a 30 min.?

thanks for reading.

Ray
~Gothyc Designs

 

[Rich]

Try the Sears catalog. They have a lot of accessories for lathes with 8 TPI shafts.

Rich

 

[GothycDesigns]

Thanks Rich, I'll take a look Fri. night. :cool2:

Ray

 

[MichaelMouse]

No free lunch when it comes to glue. Takes time to cure, and the broader the area covered, longer it takes. Standard PVA woodworkers' glue is supposed to have 80% of its bond strength within 30 minutes, which should be enough, if you're taking advantage of your outside support by keeping the tailstock engaged until the heavy work is done and cutting rather than punching the wood. The advocates of hot glue can turn with their mounts. I've even done it. Just prefer the ease of a chuck. Makes the most of the time I spend at the lathe.

 

[GothycDesigns]

Thanks for all the input guys. I have found that I can get a chuck setup from Grissly. A 4 Jaw chuck with positional teeth and would have to buy an extra thread insert which they carry the 3/4 x10TPI like I have. Altogether including shipping should be less than $75. which is with in my range. So I'm thinking if I get some money from christmas, thats what I'll be getting. Or I can just get it now to help me along with my gifts that I'll be making.

So again for the input with my questions. I am glad there is a site like this with friendly and dedicated woodworkers that care share ideas and advise.

On another note and sorry to add this here, but does anyone know if Dave Hout is a member. I've seen him on TV the DIY network, has a turning show.

Thanks,
Ray
~Gothyc Designs

 

[john lucas]

If it's a 4 jaw independant chuck like they use in metal working don't buy it. They won't hold wood. Grizzly sells 4 jaw wood chucks. You can tell the difference because the jaws will be shaped like a more or less round circle when closed. Metal working jaws are narrow and will crush the wood. The vibrations of the cutting action then cause the wood to work it's way loose.
Just about any glue will work when using a wasteblock as long as you give it enough drying time. Titebond and Elmers are for all practical purposes the same thing and they work great but both surfaces must be flat. If you don't have a perfectly flat surface then 5 minute epoxy is a good choice. It will fill in gaps where the PVA glues like Titebond won't. Wait longer than 5 minutes that's an approx. number.
I turned many bowls with glue blocks because chucks either didn't exist or were too expensive to buy when I started turning.

 

[GothycDesigns]

This chuck is listed in the wood lathe section of the Grizzly catalog. Page 111 I think, http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2006/Main/111 the G1082.

So this is not a good one? Or do I need to look for a round chuck hold/teeth?
If that be the case then I'll have top be saving up more money. I think somewhere in the back of my head that doing just a glue block, I'll have wood flying all over the place no matter how much glue I put. Maybe it is a newbie thing and just need to go for it. The gifts aren't getting any more done at this point.

Thanks,
Ray
~Gothyc Designs

 

[MichaelMouse]

Not a good choice. Look down to the 626X series for something more suited to woodturning. As to "teeth," not a fan. The wedge type and smooth jaws spread the load better, holding without penetrating the surface of the wood or destroying circularity in the tenon or mortise. lateral loading is best resisted by the shoulder or by the face of the jaws against the bottom of the mortise.

Plan your holds to take advantage of this, and keep the support of the tailstock until you're as close to regular and as low in weight as you can get consistent with your design.

 

[n7bsn]

This chuck is listed in the wood lathe section of the Grizzly catalog. Page 111 I think, http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2006/Main/111 the G1082.

///s

Ah, no, it's not self-centering

I have the G1194 and it does a better job, but has issues. I have done some short mugs with it, but the teeth leave marks.

Has someone mentioned that Teknatool makes an a 3/4x10 RH insert for the Nova series? With that you would just have to change inserts to change lathes.

 

[DeanGThomas]

Not a good choice. Look down to the 626X series for something more suited to woodturning.

Michael has told you well. If you've got to go the cheaper route, at least buy the right stuff. Call them and find out which of those chucks works on your machine. You will then know what THEY think your spindle is!!

You've asked a bunch of questions about lathes and tools and related materials. You're wondering about a new lathe and asked about Jet and Grizzly and Harbor Freight stuff, all in the same thread.

There are two basic rules when it comes to tools. They are general rules, not ALWAYS true, but almost always. The exceptions are few. #1, You gets what you pays for. #2, You gets out in relation to what you puts in.

Grizzly & HF have something of a stained reputation in the lathe area. There's a HF model that looks a lot like a Jet model. I'm sure that you could find similar Griz stuff in that vein, too. Then you look at details and realize that your machine doesn't have a standard driver (e.g., MT2 as opposed to some strange thread configuration). Talking to a machine repairman friend and a rep from a major tool concern, I learned that many of the lathes (and all the rest of the Asian-made tools) can come out of the same set of plants in the same city. All the motors from the same manufacturer with stenciled names, all the headstocks from the same foundry, all the bearings from the same source. If you take the same "model" headstock and machine to the nearest .0001" as your "best" product and the nearest 1/16" for your "bargain" product, and spray paint 'em two different colors, yep, they're going to look a lot alike! If you use the best bearings you can buy for your premium machine and the absolute cheapest you can find of the same size/shape for the bargain, they're still going to look the same. And they may even WORK the same for a little while, but crap bearings held in sloppy races by spit and peanut butter ain't gonna cut it for long! When you have new bearings installed and pay premium prices for them, and put them back into sloppy races, you've still got half the problems.

So, long story short? Buy as much quality as possible. You're going to pay for it in the end. If you buy better earlier, your turning experiences will be MUCH more rewarding.

And yes, some of the Griz & HF guys will write and tell you that I've given them a bum rap. There have been a few machines that got out there with aligned centers and decent bearings. Yes indeed. But I can quickly find you a whole lot more DISsatisfied folks than I can find you SATisfied ones. Sadly.

If you can't do anything else, you do what you have to do and work to identify and overcome any manufacturer's shortcomings. Sometimes you can make corrections that will make them useable, at least in the short term. Buy as smart as you can!!

It's kind of like buying a $60 table saw and wondering why you can't cut a square cut on it to save your life. The skimpy aluminum table's warped and/or racked, the plastic and pressed aluminum "miter gauge" wags in the sloppy miter slot. The plastic base twists in the wind so you can't get it solid. Gee, why do my joints look like they need chiropractic work??? Sorry. Didn't mean to rant, but it helps make the point. I feel MUCH better now.

One man's opinions, YMMV, no flames, please.

 

[GothycDesigns]

Hey Dean, oh boy, yes I do understand. I intially bought the HB lathe because, of course, saw the sale add and bought it because I didn't think at anytime in the future would have any decent money to put towards what I really wanted.....I guess jumping the gun would be the term...And wanted to start turning.

So, to some points, yes, I am working with what I gots to work with. I have seen and drooled over the Novas and Oneways....but who really has 2k-4k in the back pocket to do so. I wish I did, thus, so here I am with the HF.

Its always in the back of my mind to buy Bigger & Better and when I am able to. But at this point I have learned to compensate where I can. To a point the lathe I have isn't really that bad. I just need to find a decent chuck that will work and for the most part should be fine until I get something better. Then mostly likely this lathe will become the buffing center....

So, to you, what kind of lathe do you have? Was it your first choice? and how long did it take for you to save up for it? If you don't mind me asking. If you'd rather reply by PM, that is fine as well. As I mentioned, I welcome all advise for learning what I can about turning and other topics.

Thanks for your input...sorry to make you rant. But to be honest, I probably would not buy a lathe from Grizzly or an other HF.


Thanks,

Ray