clogging gouge

[Gerald Lawrence]

Have been turning live oak this past week and the flute on the Pinnacle gouge I am using clogs so bad that I occasionally have to stop and clean it or it stops cutting. I it the wood or something I am doing?

 

[hockenbery]

Have been turning live oak this past week and the flute on the Pinnacle gouge I am using clogs so bad that I occasionally have to stop and clean it or it stops cutting. I it the wood or something I am doing?

Green live oak is quite sticky. I have more of an issue with the bevel getting sticky than the flute clogging.
I use an Ellsworth grind on gouges with a parabolic flute.
The bottom of the flute is round and the sides of the flute open so clogging is rare.

If your pinnacle gouge is more of a sharp vee, that flute design tends to clog more than the parabolic flute.

Al

 

[hockenbery]

Gerald,

I posted a video on YouTube of hollowing Live oak bowl.
You can see my gouge doesn't' clog much

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flw8LwQqGQU&feature=youtube_gdata

 

[Dave Fritz]

Misery loves company. I too have a deep "V" gouge that does the same thing. Esp. when the tool rest is moved in and my hand is resting against the tool rest. The distance between my hand and the end of the tool is pretty close and the wood gets packed in causing me to have to stop and clear out the "V". My next gouge will be more of a "U" shape.

Dave Fritz

 

[robo hippy]

Hmm, I have never had a scraper clog up.... Okay, so I am a bit weird that way, but that is a minor reason for me preferring a scraper for my roughing. One reason I quit using my Glaser deep V gouge was because it was clogging. A more open flute works a lot better. Other than that, you will have to take smaller roughing cuts, but that is no fun...

robo hippy

 

[Mark Mandell]

Gerald,

The oaks are not regarded as "sweet woods" like fruit-bearing trees but they contain a heavy concentration of sugars which, when the wood's wet, will act like syrup and stick to everything. I have an original Jerry Glazer 7/8" A-ll gouge that I use for roughing. Jerry preferred the deep "V" flute (I think Laguna adopted it as well) and I find the tool does best as a point cutter with Jerry's straight side profile rather than using the sides of the flute ground to a curve like the Irish/Ellsworth grind. You get a smaller shaving, but less likely to clog in wet wood.

 

[Odie]

Unseasoned wood is responsible for most of my problems with clogging in the flutes of gouges. The problem is fine wood particles being fused to the flute. The cause is loss of moisture content because of heat, which bakes the wood particles into a crust. I haven't found a way to prevent this from happening, but I have found a way to restrict the build-up, thus prolonging the need to stop and clean out the flute. I have a scrap end piece from a 2x4 with magnets on the base. I use this to whack the gouge at frequent intervals when using wet wood. It works very well with dry(er) wood, but isn't a cure-all solution when working with wet unseasoned wood......just makes it a bit more livable!

I'm not on my own computer right now, so can't show a pic of this whacker block......but, I've previously shown it in post #37 of this thread:

http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/sho...shop-and-quot-evolving-shop-quot-photos/page4

ooc

 

[Harry Robinette]

Woodcraft Pinnacle gouge's have a VERY thin flute and they clog easily. All there flutes are this way and there hard to keep clean ,waxing the flute help's it wont stop it but it will help.

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Green live oak is quite sticky. I have more of an issue with the bevel getting sticky than the flute clogging.
I use an Ellsworth grind on gouges with a parabolic flute.
The bottom of the flute is round and the sides of the flute open so clogging is rare.

If your pinnacle gouge is more of a sharp vee, that flute design tends to clog more than the parabolic flute.

Al

Al does parabolic mean u shaped? Going to have to get a new bowl gouge.

 

[hockenbery]

Al does parabolic mean u shaped? Going to have to get a new bowl gouge.

Not u shaped more a v shape with a wide rounded bottom and slightly curved flute walls

The Henry Taylor is a good value gouge.
The Ellsworth signature gouges,
Packard has a parabolic gouge.
Thompson vee works pretty well and has a wide bottom to the flute.

Al

 

[robo hippy]

Well, I have had a lot of stuff stick to my tools, and Madrone is one of the worst. I almost never get to oak. When roughing with a deep V gouge, it gets clogged because it can't eject the shavings and/or chunks as fast as I can push them into the gouge. They jam up. Typically, when I am roughing with a gouge, it is more of a scraping cut, not a bevel rubbing cut.

robo hippy

 

[Bill Boehme]

Al does parabolic mean u shaped? Going to have to get a new bowl gouge.

I suspect that they are all elliptical because I think that an ellipse might be easier to machine than a parabola. But, it might be neither of those. if I run into Doug Thompson at SWAT, I'll ask him. Either way, for something that size, the difference between an elliptical section and a parabolic arc is all but imperceptible. And, either one can be as wide or narrow as you please. People usually distinguish between narrow and wide by using the letters U and V. That's OK as long as you don't take it literally (I know, bad pun).

 

[hockenbery]

I suspect that they are all elliptical because I think that an ellipse might be easier to machine than a parabola. But, it might be neither of those. if I run into Doug Thompson at SWAT, I'll ask him. Either way, for something that size, the difference between an elliptical section and a parabolic arc is all but imperceptible. And, either one can be as wide or narrow as you please. People usually distinguish between narrow and wide by using the letters U and V. That's OK as long as you don't take it literally (I know, bad pun).

Doug is making jaimieson's signature gouge with a parabolic flute so he will know for sure!

 

[Michael Poorman]

Not having a huge selection of gouges, my input is limited. I've not had much trouble with my 5/8 v gouge from Doug clogging while turning green wood. I do wonder it a teflon spray would help though... Thoughts?

I started off with a set of pinnacle tools, and the gouge does clog somethin fierce!

 

[Mark Mandell]

I do wonder it a teflon spray would help though

Hi Michael,

As a matter of policy, I keep any kind of non-stick compounds away from my woodworking to avoid contaminating the workpiece and thus preventing proper finishing. Silicone is, of course, the well-known culprit, but out of a combination of ignorance and caution I'd include teflon as well. I have used wax (Johnson or Bri) to assist with the sticking problem but only in paste form. Spray wax applications often contain silicone to their formulas as a flow aid.

hth

 

[hockenbery]

I clean the flute with a slip stone.

When stuff builds up in the flute it can make the gouge less sharp.
I want to be sharpening against a polished edge.

 

[robo hippy]

I have tried a number of things to keep sticky wood off of the insides of my flutes. Boeshield, WD 40, Top Coat, Pam, and walnut oil from my pads that I use to apply it with. None of them seem to do much. When it gets really gunky, I have one grinder set up with a wire wheel, and that really cleans it all off.

For flute shapes: Well V is easy to understand and the bottom of the V is rounded rather than coming to a point. Doug's is pretty open. A U shape has a half circle for the bottom, and comes up eventually to where the sides go straight rather than follow the curve. Some gouges are a half circle shape. The parabolic, and again, there are some that are more open or closed, starts off with circular curve, but the curve opens up as you get near the wings, so it isn't just a straight half circle. This would include the Ellsworth signature gouge, Lyle's gouge, and I think the Oneway gouges are parabolic.

Hope that explains it a bit.

robo hippy

 

[Michael Poorman]

Mark,

I follow your logic, but do you think a coating on the tool while your rough turning a bowl will deposit enough "anti-stickum" to your piece that would stay around after the piece is finish turned? Just wondering...

I do generally just use a little brass or nylon brush to knock off what won't come out with my finger. I like your wire wheel approach robo!

 

[Mark Mandell]

Mark,

I follow your logic, but do you think a coating on the tool while your rough turning a bowl will deposit enough "anti-stickum" to your piece that would stay around after the piece is finish turned? Just wondering...

I do generally just use a little brass or nylon brush to knock off what won't come out with my finger. I like your wire wheel approach robo!

Not my wire wheel (that was RoBo) but in answer, my policy is, as stated, a better-safe-than-sorry approach. Once the tool gets "contaminated" so are the shavings, the lathe, your hands, and all the other things that come into contact with the wood. Since any coating, wax, silicone, or Greek yogurt will only last a short time and need to be renewed with more it's just not worth it.

When using a gouge, V U or some variant, in wet wood, I find that going to an underhand grip to leave the flute mostly open whenever possible does more than anything else to prevent clogging. Of course, that doesn't always work

I also don't put my tools away dirty or dull; they get cleaned and sharpened at the end of a session so there's no real build up when I go to turn the next time.

PS: An underhand grip also takes the punishment off the heel of your leading hand.

 

[KellyDunn]

I have not used the brand of tool that seems to clog so easy. As a full time production turner I have had woods clog a gouge. I just have never made either mental or real notes concerning the gouge shape or the wood. But I do think its in roughing as I can be a pig. I have been roughing for the last four days and trying out a 5/8ths-1/2in. flute D-way and the double ended 1/2in.-3/8ths flute Oneway. No problem but the woods were not sticky or fibrous. I really dislike fibrous woods as bits lay over your tool edge. And not a thing you can do but hope you get er done and move on. but what this thread has done is make me want to take notes next time I do get a wood that clogs the gouge. And then try other gouges to check it out. So thanks.

 

[Steve Worcester]

?....if I run into Doug Thompson at SWAT, I'll ask him.....

I don't think you can miss him.

One thing to think about, there is more to the performance of the gouge than the flute shape. How thick is the bottom of the gullet (is that the proper term for the bottom of the gouge/ apex of the flute?). Too thin will cause vibration and traffic jam for chips.

but it takes some time to get the feel for what works for you and doesn't. And each wood may reveal a different path.

personally, I use all "V" gouges and can notice if a "U" sneers into the lineup. It isn't bad, just reacts different.