Considering a new lathe...

[Warren White]

I see that Craft Supplies has a reduced price for a Powermatic PM2020 lathe. I like the idea of the smaller size and I would like something a bit beefier than my Jet 1015VS as I would like to turn bowls.

Your thoughts regarding Powermatic in general and this lathe in specific would be most appreciated.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

unless the % sale is like 25% to 30% the 3520B is very close on regular price.....it is hard to find 18 and 19 inch wood blanks, big bowls are hard to display and hard to sell....yes it can be done.....the 1640 is a nice lathe and u can buy 20 inch bed extension,,,,,,try to go to national convention where you can look and feel these lathes.......ask odie if he were to buy a new lathe what he would consider, he does a lot of bowls.......just my .02 worth

 

[Mike Johnson]

I would think a longer bed would have a better resale value to a larger number wood turners.
Larger billets require larger tools and longer drill bits when machining any billet on the lathe.
When I turn larger pieces the length of the bed comes into play for using drill bits & chucks in the tail stock.
A compact lathe will also have limitations when using hollowing tools and coring tools.

 

[hockenbery]

I see that Craft Supplies has a reduced price for a Powermatic PM2020 lathe. I like the idea of the smaller size and I would like something a bit beefier than my Jet 1015VS as I would like to turn bowls.

Your thoughts regarding Powermatic in general and this lathe in specific would be most appreciated.

I would encourage you to look at the jet 1840. This lathe is one of two lathes to come out of the redesign of the Jet 1642. The 1640 is a 1 hp 110 lathe the 1840 is a 2HP 220.
Jet powermatic had these machines in Atlanta.
Powermatic is a fine machine. I just don't see them selling many with the Jet1840 on the market.
I mentioned that to the jet/ powermatic when the gave me the tour of the new 1840. They sort of smiled and said just wait.... There is a powermatic upgrade in the works.

 

[john lucas]

Well I've had my 3520A for 12 years or so now and love it. I seldom turn larger work. It just won't sell around here. It's the mass of the lathe that makes the difference, not the size. You can turn a really sweet 9" bowl far easier on a lathe that weighs 750lbs than you can on a lathe that dances around the room whenever you turn the rpm up. The 20/20 is sweet. However I have a short bed extension on my lathe. I keep the headstock mounted on that close to the joint between the extension and original bed. This gives me just enough room so that I don't have to remove the tailstock all the time. I can just slide it out to the end and it's out of the way. Of course if you bought the swing away tailstock adaptor that wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Justin Stephen]

Happy 3520B owner here, and I agree with those that caution against the shorter bed length version. You can move the headstock down closer to the end of the lathe to achieve the same effect and still have the flexibility as needed of a longer bed (and higher resale). That said, if the Laguna 1836 had been on the market when I purchased by 3520B, I certainly would have taken a very close look at it before buying the Powermatic.

 

[pete marken]

I have a PM3520 for less than a year and have had several noise issues from the head stock. my feeling on this is a brand new lathe should not have problems. My wife has a jet 12-22 VS also less than a year old and had to replace bearings which did not fix it. also replaces spindle shaft. I am not real keen on either Jet or PM any longer not much help out of customer service especially when my wife called them. Many of you have 3520's for years with no issues but I am dis satisfied. I replaced my wife's jet with a Robust Scout which she loves. I will probably replace my PM 3520 with a Robust American Beauty.

 

[Andy Chen]

I have a PM3520 for less than a year and have had several noise issues from the head stock. my feeling on this is a brand new lathe should not have problems. My wife has a jet 12-22 VS also less than a year old and had to replace bearings which did not fix it. also replaces spindle shaft. I am not real keen on either Jet or PM any longer not much help out of customer service especially when my wife called them. Many of you have 3520's for years with no issues but I am dis satisfied. I replaced my wife's jet with a Robust Scout which she loves. I will probably replace my PM 3520 with a Robust American Beauty.

Good move, Pete. I drive a Hyundai but I turn on Oneways, an eighteen year old 2036 and a 1018, age unknown. My next lathe would definitely be a Robust, if I ever get another one.

 

[Mike Johnson]

A large majority of the bearings are made offshore these days and many of these are knock-offs (made to look like a factory labeled brand).
No matter which lathe you purchase you run the chance of getting a questionable bearing unless it is made for that piece of equipment and then
you will expect to pay through the nose for a replacement when needed.

 

[Douglas Ladendorf]

Chinese made bearings can be an issue. I've used Japanese made bearings (Nachi) in a number of machine restorations and all are running great.

Warren, if space is an issue you might look for a used Vega bowl lathe or older Union Graduate bowl lathe.

 

[pete marken]

Bye the way, My Stubby 750 has been running for almost 15 years now and never had an issue with it. I will never part with this lathe.

 

[Warren White]

I should have given a bit more information regarding why I am thinking about the PM2020. First off, this is a hobby for me, and I just can't rationalize putting a huge amount of money into something that is just for me. I don't sell many of the things I turn. I mostly turn pens, but since taking a class at CSI I have enjoyed getting started with other things. My Jet 1015VS just is a bit too small to put a set of cole jaws on my chuck and turn anything but a very small bowl. If money wasn't an object, I would certainly buy one of the Robust lathes; that is what I used at CSI, and it was FANTASTIC!

Another consideration is space: All of my tools have to be 'wheelable' out of their places in my garage. My consideration of the 2020 was that it would take up a small footprint when not in use, while giving me the extra depth for bowls and other larger items. It would also give me the added horsepower that I lack in my current Jet. I have never needed to turn anything with a longer length than my Jet would turn, and this Powermatic would add 5" to that limitation.

I have really appreciated all of the comments posted. Each gives me information I didn't have before. Exactly why I posted here.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Warren,

When the wood turning bug bites, it is only a matter of time before you tend to move up to a larger machine to expand your capabilities.
Available space in your work area is always one consideration when making these purchases.
Time to expand the shop area.
My wood turning room is not very large, so I know what you are up against. (The wall)

 

[Bill Boehme]

Warren, a dozen years ago when the turning bug bit I also went through the same anguish about space and money. I also wasn't interested in selling what I made.

It's funny how time changes things. I'm now on my third lathe, a Robust American Beauty. I still don't have enough space so I roll it out of the garage and turn outdoors. The weather is the only factor that makes this less than the ideal shop. I turn things for friends and family and mostly to donate to charitable auctions. Turning is still a hobby for me, but I might eventually sell pieces, but not at craft shows nor production turning.

 

[Odie]

http://www.woodworkersemporium.com/Vicmarc_V00759-3US/

If I were going to buy a lathe right now, it would be the Vicmarc VL240 swivel head lathe. I understand this is out of the price range of the OP, but I thought I'd give my thoughts on this anyway.....just in case anyone is listening. The reasons this lathe would be perfect for me are many.....and, I suspect not very many turners have the same priorities as I do.

Why not a sliding headstock, instead of a swivel headstock? For me, it's my style of turning the most difficult phase of bowl turning......the interior. I have evolved to brace my hips on the lathe bed and move with my upper body, shoulders, and arms for precise cuts. If the headstock is at the end of the bed, as with a sliding headstock, and I am on my feet, I get none of the benefits that I've become accustomed to. If I had this lathe, I suspect I'd seldom use anything but the 30° headstock setting.

The VL240 tapered headstock is similar to the Robust AB lathe, and since I am almost exclusively a faceplate turner, the benefits of this are huge......great tool access on the back side of the bowl. A lathe with a big bulky headstock, like the Powermatic, would be an insurmountable obstacle for my specific purposes. I'm lucky that my Woodfast lathe has a partially tapered headstock, because when I bought it 24 years ago, I had no idea what kind of benefits this would become for me.

The Vicmarc VL240 would increase my ability to turn larger bowls. My older vintage Australian Woodfast lathe has a 16" swing, and the Vicmarc would be about 19". This is a good thing, but minimal advantage, from my point of view. I purchase my wood blocks, and I seldom have access to wood larger than I can buy now......it does happen, though, and a good reason for my thinking about eventually buying the VL240.

I will not have a lathe with the controls mounted to the headstock. My Woodfast lathe originally had the controls on the headstock, and it was problematic. I kept bumping the controls accidentally. I eventually mounted the controls to the far side of the lathe. These new lathes that have magnetic control boxes are a great advancement in wood lathe design.

I am now retired, and on a fixed income. My bills are eating me alive!.....but, my lathe turning remains the most important priority in my life. I am feeding this asset destroyer, even though other aspects of my life are suffering because of it. We all have priorities in our lives, and my woodturning has become more important to me than I ever thought it would be 34 years ago! I dream of owning the VL240, and it might come true someday.......but, not in the foreseeable future.

ko.....

 

[Breck Whitworth]

I have a PM3520B and have been a semi production turner of bowls with this lathe for 4-1/2 years and no problems to speak of. The only minor problem over the 4-1/2 years was a clicking sound caused by a small set screw working loose in the headstock on the drive shaft. It took about 1 min to tighten the set screw and no more clicking. I turn large bowls because you can sell them for more money than the smaller ones. This is a great lathe and I have only used it's longer bed length (than the one you are looking at) a few times. Great lathe for the money period. The support for PM has been great to me.

 

[Leonard Niemi]

All of the above mentioned lathes are excellent, but come at high cost. Take a good look at the Grizzly G0766. I did and am very happy with what I got without spending big bucks.

 

[Michael Schneider]

Not sure if you are looking to buy something ready to turn or save some $$ with a project.

http://www.woodworkersemporium.com/Vicmarc_V00767-3/

Edit: added link

I bought a bare Vicmarc VL300 shortbed and and 18" extension. I am in the midst of building it out. This gives you a small foot print when you need it, but easily extends when you need a longer bed. I made the mistake of deciding to paint the shop walls a bright white and update the electrical before I build the lathe. I just say mistake, because the shop fix up portion of the project is taking several months.

Note: the Vicmarc VL300 bare lathe includes everything that comes with a standard VL300 except for the stand and the motor. The bare lathe does include the drive pulley for 7/8 motor shaft. Just build a stand, and add a motor and you are done.

VL300S BM Specifications

Centre Height: 300mm
Swing Over Bed: 600mm
Distance Between Centres: 500mm
Work Height (Bed Bottom to Spindle Centre): 452mm
Indexing Holes: 24
Headstock and Tailstock Spindle: No. 2 MT
Spindle Bearings: Taper Roller
3 Speeds: 469, 1020, 1500 rpm
Toolrest Post Diameter: 30mm
Hole Through Headstock Spindle: 15mm
Hole Through Tailstock Spindle: 10.5mm
Quill Travel: 75mm
Net Weight: 117kg
Length x Width x Height(mm): 1150x400x720

Standard Accessories

1x Faceplate 150mm
1x Live Centre
1x Tool Rests 300mm
1x 10mm Knockout Bar
1x Drive Dog
1x Spanner
1x 3 Step Motor Pulley
1x Vicmarc Hat
1x Owner's Manual

I don't turn professionally and jumped at the chance to make something a lathe for me (6'5" tall) at a good price. I also like to understand how my tools function so I am not afraid to tweak them. I bought an AC tech (ACTech drives are made in the USA) 3hp VFD and a 2hp leeson high effeciancy wattsaver motor with an insulation grade of F (allow full torque at low speeds). The 2hp should do me fine, but If I end up wanting to go up to 3hp later, I can use the same VFD and trade the motor with someone. You can always use a VFD rated for a higher hp motor to drive a motor with a lower HP. From an engineering standpoint, you are overrated, I bought my drive used, so the 3hp used drive was much cheaper than a new 2hp drive.

The Grizzly option is a nice one that is cheaper then the Vic project, but the Vic 300 project is cheaper than any of the Powermatics.

It is really about what you want to do, and do you care if some of your time goes to building the lathe rather then turning.

Good luck
Michael

 

[Steve Worcester]

Yep, 4th lathe, 3rd bandsaw, 3 chainsaws and enough faceplates, chucks and tools for a school
But space is probably more expensive than the machines. I have taken over the two car garage and it isn't nearly big enough. And I dont use it for wood storage at all, intentionally.

 

[john lucas]

I'm on my 8th lathe. Well if you count the footpowered one and the Dremel and my metal lathe make that 11. I built one more or less from scratch. It was a J-line that was missing the spindle, tailstock quill, and tool rest. I had a machinist build the spindle and put 1 1/4 x 8 TPI on it. I bought a Delta tailstock quill and reduced it's diameter to fit my tailstock. I made my own tool rest and added a DC motor and drive. It was a decent lathe but not anywhere near as good as a decent factory built lathe. I took My Nova 3000 raised it 4 inches and added a VFD and bigger motor and heavy duty stand. It also worked pretty well but not nearly as good as the Powermatic 3520A I have now.
When comparing lathes people often compare the Powermatic to lathes twice as expensive. Well yea, it isn't the same but I still think it's the best lathe in it's price range. I am a fan of Vicmarc, Stubby, and Robust.

 

[robo hippy]

I am with Odie about that particular Vicmark. If I was to get another lathe, different from my Beauty, it would be the Vicmark with the pivoting headstock, and like Odie, it would stay pivoted about 99% of the time. Built like the proverbial brick outhouse....

robo hippy

 

[Mike Johnson]

Anyone purchasing a new lathe must determine their individual needs.
How you answer each question may change your selection of a new lathe.

How large of foot print do you have for the lathe?
How large and how long of billets do you want/need to turn?
How often will you be using the lathe?
Is the lathe used for hobby or production?
How much do you have or want to spend on the new lathe & new tooling?
Do you want or need to move the lathe after it is set up.
How portable do you want/need the lathe to be?
What voltage source do you have available for the lathe?
What size of accessories do you currently own that you might use on the new lathe?
Will the design of the lathe address your needs for the items you want to turn?
Will your new lathe address your immediate needs and future needs?
Are spare parts readily available along with documentation and customer service?
Is the lathe easily maintained and/or easy to work on based on your mechanical skills?
Is there a warranty on the lathe and how do they take care of any problems encountered?
Are other owners happy with the performance of the lathe you intend to purchase?

 

[Michael Greco]

I don't know what your budget is, have you looked at the Nova DVR's. They are nice lathe at a reasonable price with some nice features.

 

[hockenbery]

The jet 1840 has a DVR model. I like the controls jet has a lot better than Nova's.
Anyone interested in a DVR Should look at the jet and the Nova.

The jet has a dial to advance speeds in steps. It is a dual switch push in and it changes speed in large increments. Not pushed in it makes fine adjustment in small ingpcrememts. ( I think it is a 100 rpm and 5 RPM). Not quite the control you get with a true variable speed lathe but close.

I think of the DVR as having hundreds of fixed speeds that the controls move you to a lot slower than a variable speed dial.

The jet controls are almost like using a regular lathe.
You get close and fine tune almost like you would with a variable speed dial.

The one aspect I really like about the Nova DVR is its stability with unbalanced bowl blanks.
For such a light lathe it is almost as stable as a powermatic for unbalanced blanks.
The mass of the headstock and the weight distributed about the spindle seems to keep vibration low.

The Jet should have that same enhanced stability but I have not turned on one yet.
Nova will have an advantage in small footprint.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Ran across this file which details the specs on a large number of lathes in the market place.
A quick reference to narrow your search for lathes you might be interested in based on size, weight, horsepower, voltage and capacity.

 

[hockenbery]

Ran across this file which details the specs on a large number of lathes in the market place.
A quick reference to narrow your search for lathes you might be interested in based on size, weight, horsepower, voltage and capacity.

Mike,
This appears to be about 4-5 years out of date.
Useful for used equipment.

A quick look it is missing models from Jet, Robust, Laguna,

This article from the journal is dated too but the relevant things to look for when comparing lathes are still valid. Individuals will find the elements of comparison having different importance.
http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.woodtu...s/upgradeyourlathe.pdf?hhSearchTerms="Lathes"

 

[Raul McCai]

just can't rationalize putting a huge amount of money into something that is just for me..

Woodworking equipment is never just for the person who buys it. They end up making things that benefit those in their lives.
Or stated another way: How many bowls you gonna hide in your closet? Somebody else is going to benefit.

 

[John Tisdale]

If you know someone with a Oneway you should give it a test drive. It's a bit more expensive but worth it. Oneway is a design group/machine shop - it's made in Canada. They do it all on site.
I mount 300-lb plus logs on a regular basis and have been doing so for 12-years - the tailstock doesn't slip, the banjo doesn't slip, the bearings don't fail and the 3-hp Leeson in my lathe just keeps on. Most of the guys I know may have a Powermatic but they all use the Oneway live center - there is a reason - they don't break.

If you have a question, and I've had lots of dumb questions, you give them a call and talk to Kevin Clay, president, or his engineer. I'm about to hang a 1000-lb log off the outboard end - called Kevin asking if the spindle was up to cantilevering that much - he provided the details on the bearings, type of steel, etc, etc.

If you want a big-boy lathe, Oneway is a great choice - you'll be hugging yourself for a long time. That being said, the Vicmarc VL300 is also a great choice - my first lathe was a VL200 - Vicmarc is a quality product.

A lathe is for recreation - we recreate ourselves with each piece - get what you want (not what you need) and don't look back.

 

[Warren White]

I thought it was only fair to let everyone know that I have made a decision. I have learned A LOT from the exchange of information. Two considerations drove me; price and footprint. There are many excellent lathes out there, and each have their +'s and -'s.

I went on a trip to Disneyland last week and there is a Woodcraft store not too far away. They were quite knowledgeable and helpful, and had several lathes on the floor. I didn't see anything on display that dissuaded me from my interest in the Powermatic PM2020 (which wasn't on display, but the PM3520B was. They are the same lathes, but with a smaller footprint). In fact, one of the lathes that I went to see really turned me off because of the quality of the casting! It looked like junk! Since I can't remember which on it was, I cannot comment further.

I ordered the PM2020 from Craft Supply this afternoon. Roger, their lathe specialist, was VERY helpful.

I will have a Jet 1015VS for sale once I get the lathe delivered and up and running.

Thank you all for your advice and counsel. I studied all of your comments and suggestions and every bit helped.

 

[RichColvin]

I really like my PowerMatic 3520B. I bet you'll like your new machine.

 

[hockenbery]

@Warren White, Enjoy your new lathe it will serve you well.
One word of caution: work up to larger pieces gradually.

The biggest bowls you could do on the 10" lathe will be the smaller bowls you will turn on your powermatic. Work up gradually to larger sizes by turning a series of successful bowls at each size increment,
Do five 12" bowls then three 14" then two 16" then an 18"

The larger bowls get increasingly more demanding of skills needed to get a pleasing curve and nice surface. Also with poor technique the larger bowls have more potential danger.
Techniques you can get away with on small bowls will cause big problems on larger bowls.

Be safe! Enjoy your new machine! It will serve you well.

 

[Dave Hulett]

thought I'd write this for anyone who owns or is considering a Nova DVR XP lathe. The DVR-XP has been discontinued and replaced by the Galaxy 1624. However, Nova has a limited number of new control panels) that will upgrade the DVR XP to similar features of the 1624. I just installed one (2 minute upgrade involving 4 screws and a cable hookup to the circuit board) and I feel like I just bought a new lathe. Improvements include:
- 10 preset speeds vs 5
- speeds are directly accessible through 5 function keys. one finger speed changes!
- a dial to control speed that has both fine (5-20 rpm increments) or coarse (up to 200 rpm increments) depending on the speed you are running. (push in for coarse adjustment.)
- a brake can be enabled to bring the lathe to a stop quickly. but make sure you have a set screw tightened on chuck. it brought mine to a stop from 1000 rpm's in about 1 second.
- allows speed to go up to 5000 rpm's. not sure what you'd spin at that speed, but it's there now.

For $150 plus shipping it was a steal. call Nova technical support. At the time I ordered in March 2017, they still had a few left.

 

[john lucas]

One thing to consider is weight. When your turning bowls especially when they are rough and out of round the mass of the lathe makes a lot of difference. That's what I notice most when turning on the club Jet 16/42 vs my Powermatic. On either one I would be turning roughly 12" bowls but the Powermatic is so much more stable and that's without the extra weight I used to have under the powermatic. Size and power are nice but Mass makes a lot of difference. At least in my opinion. A lot of people like shortbed lathes. I have added a bed extension to mine so I guess I'm not one of them.

 

[Mike Johnson]

E = mc 2, equation in German-born physicist Albert Einstein's theory of special relativity that shows that the increased relativistic mass (m) of a body comes from the energy of motion of the body—that is, its kinetic energy (E)—divided by the speed of light squared.

More Mass, More Better

 

[Bill Boehme]

allows speed to go up to 5000 rpm's. not sure what you'd spin at that speed, but it's there now.

Cindy Drozda turns her miniature finial boxes that fast. Any normal size object such as a bowl or hollowform wouldn't have the structural integrity to stay together at 5000 RPM, not to mention that the chuck also might not be able to hold together at that high RPM. Something to think about it when it comes to high speed is the kinetic energy of the shrapnel from an exploding turning. If we use an example of a large bowl spinning at its maximum safe speed of 600 RPM, the kinetic energy of flying pieces if it were to explode would be sufficient to cause serious injury. The same event occurring at 5000 RPM would have a kinetic energy that is about 260 times greater. There isn't anything that could protect you from such high energy shrapnel.