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Consignment Burl

David Wyke

David Wyke

Joined
Nov 22, 2023
Messages
505
Likes
3,814
Location
Morganton, NC
I received a phone call from an individual that was referred to me from an art gallery and asked if I could turn some bowls for him and his wife from a burl. They were clearing some land and the burl was in the top of the tree. I told him I don’t usually do consignment work but I would consider it and would need to see the burl. He took a few photos of it still standing and I agreed that he could being it by for me to look at and we could discuss.
He arrived today with a large maple burl that looks very nice, on the outside😁. Before unloading I showed him some bowls in process in my shop both natural edge and utilitarian type bowls. I explained the entire bowl turning process including drying time and showed him different size bowls and how they were priced, from a $80 bowl to a $250 bowl and he was fine with that.
He then called his wife to come over and discuss what they were looking for in bowls. Both had no idea what the process is to turn a bowl so I explained it to her, showed her finished bowls I had as well as in process. We determined what she was looking for in the bowls she wanted. She is mainly looking for big but shallow bowls but I did talk her into at least one natural edge.
I also explained we won’t know what we can get out of the burl until I cut it open and that wouldn’t happen for a couple weeks due to other commitments.
Very nice couple and I told them they could come by and see the burl when it was cut open, bowls in process, and I would send photos. They want as many bowls as possible out of the burl so I explained about coring some.
So, I made a few chalk marks on the burl and will do a few more before deciding how and where to start. I want to get the best yield out of it but until I make that first cut I won’t know what I have to work with.
I’ll post additional photos once I get started and if anyone has suggestions on where to start feel free to share.

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You might want to have the couple present when you cut into the burl. I have heard horror stories from other woodturners, who agreed to do exactly what you're doing. But when they cut into the burl, there was very little sound or useful wood. When this was explained to the customer, they didn't believe the turner, and accused them of lying about the condition, etc.

I took those stories to heart and made sure they were with me when I made the cuts. On two occasions, the burl I cut into was full of bark inclusions, carpenter ants and the trails they cut through it (always cherry burls), or rot. And they were there to see it in person. The deal went from 10-12 bowls, down to 2 or 3.
 
Donna Banfield said:
You might want to have the couple present when you cut into the burl. I have heard horror stories from other woodturners, who agreed to do exactly what you're doing. But when they cut into the burl, there was very little sound or useful wood. When this was explained to the customer, they didn't believe the turner, and accused them of lying about the condition, etc.

I took those stories to heart and made sure they were with me when I made the cuts. On two occasions, the burl I cut into was full of bark inclusions, carpenter ants and the trails they cut through it (always cherry burls), or rot. And they were there to see it in person. The deal went from 10-12 bowls, down to 2 or 3.
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I agree and did explain everything about ants, bark inclusion, and the fact there could be very little useful wood inside. They are close enough they could come by if desired but I assured them once it split open they will receive a picture before I proceed.
 
Big leaf maple is common here. A 3 foot diameter trunk can have a stump burl. The problem is that maple loves to rot and a tree that size can have 3 to 4 inches of kind of alive wood on the outside and be totally rotted out in the center. The burls can be very punky as in plunge your chainsaw in and there is no resistance. You won't know till you cut into it. Maybe even have them there when you cut into it, depending on how far away they live.

robo hippy
 
robo hippy said:
Big leaf maple is common here. A 3 foot diameter trunk can have a stump burl. The problem is that maple loves to rot and a tree that size can have 3 to 4 inches of kind of alive wood on the outside and be totally rotted out in the center. The burls can be very punky as in plunge your chainsaw in and there is no resistance. You won't know till you cut into it. Maybe even have them there when you cut into it, depending on how far away they live.

robo hippy
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That is good information and I did invite them to come over when I cut it. They said a picture would be fine. If I do see any issues once it is cut open I will insist they come by to see it before I proceed.
 
Hope you will post one or two photos after cutting apart. Please let me be wrong, the first photo leads me to expect voids and included bark between the included branches.
 
Don Stephan said:
Hope you will post one or two photos after cutting apart. Please let me be wrong, the first photo leads me to expect voids and included bark between the included branches.
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I will post photos when I cut it apart. I feel sure there will be a lot of bark inclusion in this one and some voids.
 
Mike Zip Hamilton said:
David, you are much braver than I. That second image looks like Disaster. It might be fun to play with this wood, but l wouldn't want to try to satisfy a customer that probably doesn't understand just what they have. Good luck.
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What about the second image looks like a disaster? I won’t know anything until I cut a section and will then decide if I move forward with turning.
I spent about two hours with this couple showing them every aspect of turning a bowl. They had no clue about how a bowl was turned but left very well informed. I explained to them that until the burl was cut open we really wouldn’t know what kind, if any, bowls they could get. I made sure they were well informed and agreed with what the outcome could be as well as pricing before I unloaded the burl.
They were very pleased when they left and in complete agreement.
 
With the way the burl goes all the way around and has black staining towards the center, be careful about hitting metal in it. Hopefully not, but timber harvesters from friends and family warned that black in a live tree could be a sign of metal.
 
Mike Drake said:
With the way the burl goes all the way around and has black staining towards the center, be careful about hitting metal in it. Hopefully not, but timber harvesters from friends and family warned that black in a live tree could be a sign of metal.
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I agree, and I’ve found several nails and metal in trees over the years. I’ll start with an older but sharpe chainsaw chain😁. If there is a good sign it is this burl was high up in the tree….so there may be a old deer hunting stand in there…that would be a bad sign!
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David, I'm not an expert on burls. I wish l had Hockingberg's illustrator skills. The first image shows multiple branches. the second image shows a dominant branch continuing the tree's growth. That image seems to confirm extensive bark inclusion. It looks like multiple dead branches coming through the growth. Will you find internal rot from those branches? Insect damage? Will the bark and rot cause this growth to separate into multiple pieces? Some turners take the most horrendous chunks of wood and turn them into stunning pieces. Some pieces need help with resins. I know you educated your customer, but if this project turns south, l can 't help thinking that they would think that you screwed up their beautiful piece of wood. As l said; this project could be tons of fun. It would be like a box of chocolates. I hope your experience is sweet.
 
Jaramiah Severns said:
After being burned a couple of times, I won’t commit to buying a burl until I can see what’s inside. It’s a crapshoot, especially with maple and cherry IME. Fingers crossed that this one is a winner, but in the future it might be wise to take a peak inside before committing.
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This is so true! I'm lucky in that I've never been burned in buying a burl that ended up being crap. But have been given (for free, no strings attached) plenty that ended up being worthless.

It's always a good laugh when I see adverts of people trying to sell burls for several hundred dollars. These are not individuals experienced in that area, rather they heard that burls were worth a lot of money, and they just happen to have one. Not unlike the residential 'still standing Walnut tree' that the homeowner wants you to pay him to take it down, cut up, haul it away and also clean up the yard. And it's about 10 feet from the house.
 
Kent Reisdorph said:
Interesting. My only gripe is that you didn't wait until you had cut into it before posting. Now we have to wait! ;)
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Saw is sharpened and ready to go😁, was planning on cutting a section Saturday. Wife’s birthday is Friday, gave her cash (which she would rather her have), told me today she wanted to spend Saturday in Asheville shopping and going out to eat for her birthday, she won’t agree to a burl party Saturday, so now we wait😂😂
 
Mike Zip Hamilton said:
David, I'm not an expert on burls. I wish l had Hockingberg's illustrator skills. The first image shows multiple branches. the second image shows a dominant branch continuing the tree's growth. That image seems to confirm extensive bark inclusion. It looks like multiple dead branches coming through the growth. Will you find internal rot from those branches? Insect damage? Will the bark and rot cause this growth to separate into multiple pieces? Some turners take the most horrendous chunks of wood and turn them into stunning pieces. Some pieces need help with resins. I know you educated your customer, but if this project turns south, l can 't help thinking that they would think that you screwed up their beautiful piece of wood. As l said; this project could be tons of fun. It would be like a box of chocolates. I hope your experience is sweet.
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I see all of what you mentioned and actually told them almost verbatim what you wrote😁. I personally will not risk injury to turn a questionable piece of wood, and I don’t use resin.
They also told me they had another large burl attached to a stump that I could have if I thought I could use it. I told them let wait and see what this one looks like first because they may need it.
 
Donna Banfield said:
It's always a good laugh when I see adverts of people trying to sell burls for several hundred dollars. These are not individuals experienced in that area, rather they heard that burls were worth a lot of money, and they just happen to have one. Not unlike the residential 'still standing Walnut tree' that the homeowner wants you to pay him to take it down, cut up, haul it away and also clean up the yard. And it's about 10 feet from the house.
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Happy to see this is not just a North Carolina thing😂. Saw one ad for a large walnut tree and the guy figured the board foot in the tree and was asking $10,000.00…….its still for sale!!
 
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Curt Fuller said:
You can never tell what will be inside a burl. But I've seen enough of your work to know that whatever you find you'll make the best of it and I'm excited to see what comes from it.
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She just wants basic bowls but I did talk her into at least one natural edge after she looked at a couple of mine😁
 
Curt Fuller said:
You can never tell what will be inside a burl.
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You can't tell what will be inside a log either!
I've sawn through nails, a screwdriver and ran into a railroad spike in logs with no clue from the outside.
Hard on a Woodmizer blade!

I once took down a tree in a friends back yard that ended up being hollow on the inside. Looking down the hollow I could see the points of dozens of nails! It looked like an inverted porcupine. I wish I'd saved a piece.
Turns out the tree was used for years to hold a succession of treehouses and multiple brothers who grew up there had renailed lots of wooden ladder boards.

And the bark had grown over the nail heads and left clue from the outside. Fortunately, I took it down to help them, not for wood. Rule #1a: never put a yard tree on the sawmill. Rule #1b: never saw a fence row tree unless the bottom 5' is removed. At least in a fence row you can usually see remnants of barbed wire coming out of the tree.

JKJ
 
Well I made the first cut on the burl this afternoon and not impressed with the grain. Hopefully once I start turning the blanks the grain will get a little interesting but I not getting my hopes up. I lined up the crease in the lobes on both sides to make the first cut. Currently I see a couple of problem areas marked with white chalk. The separation will present a problem but that will be the last section I deal with.
I realize there may be more issues once I cut the individual lobes off and will post some of that tomorrow.
I have also marked the possible cuts I plan to make and will post each section to see what everyone thinks about it.
The second photo shows a grain separation that is fairly deep and once that section is cut off I’ll determine how ar if I will proceed with turning that section.
The third photo is not as bad but will still need some careful examination before proceeding.

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This section is 26” across, the white chalk marks the grain separation on the other side. The blue line is the section I’m considering cutting the blank out of.
The section between the blue line and white line will make two blanks for natural edge vase type bowls ( current plan ).
The othe side will possibly be two blanks also. The blue dot is an intention in this section that will determine the blank size once it is cut off.
Any advice is welcome.

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This half is 30” across and is the larger side. Again the white chalk mark represents the grain seperation on the other side and blue line is my current thinking of where to cut for the bowl blanks. Everything could change once I make the first cut and see what is inside. This section has the best potential for larger bowls which is what the client wants.

I plan to look it over again in the morning before cutting and welcome any advice anyone has.


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A person wanted to sell me a burl and it looked like the one above but a little bigger. He wanted a pretty high price for it. I told him to cut it in half because I'm not buying a pig in a poke. Well he wouldn't do that but apparently nobody else would buy it because he did eventually cut it and the wood looked like that above. It was not even an onion burl just what looked like round growth, nothing that resembled burl as I knew it anyway.
 
David Wyke said:
I plan to look it over again in the morning before cutting and welcome any advice anyone has.
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I don't have any brilliant advice for the bowl turning adventure, although some of the wood may make nice smaller turnings. The grain separation you can see worries me since how much more is there that you can't see yet.

It sure looked like a burl from the outside, but, from the rings in the cut this looks more like what a tree does to repair around things like a broken limb or other damage. Usually such repair is not that "bulbous"

But from the frowny face and evil eyes in the wood, the tree might be unhappy with the whole thing! :)
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We recently got wood from a large burl someone paid good money for. I told a friend the next time someone finds a burl, please take someone with burl experience to look at it. There was very little useful wood, most was full of gaping cracks. Someone guy gave me some big blocks (12" cube or so) and it was a lot of work to get useful pen blanks from it. The other pieces are going to the burn pit.

KJK (or JKJ if I trill my fingers the right way on the keyboard)
 
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That may not be the type of burl figure you were hoping for but it's still some beautiful wood. I can see all kinds of possibilities there. Maybe not your signature 14" salad bowls and maybe a little bit of extra precautionary work to stabilize it but I'd be glad to dive into that one.
 
John K Jordan said:
It sure looked like a burl from the outside
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It is a growth impersonating a burl😁. There was guide a bit of separation inside the first two pieces I I turned today. Used a little CA on some small places but the larger ones were cut out. Odd thing is the brownish heart wood is turning black after it sits for a few minutes.
 
Curt Fuller said:
That may not be the type of burl figure you were hoping for but it's still some beautiful wood. I can see all kinds of possibilities there. Maybe not your signature 14" salad bowls and maybe a little bit of extra precautionary work to stabilize it but I'd be glad to dive into that one.
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Three are a few possibilities but a lot of grain separation in the first two pieces I turned.
Salad type bowls is what the customer wants but looks like they will only get one of those. Most will be natural edge if the grain separation is the same in the rest of the blanks.
 
A lot of small cracks and open bark inclusion on the first two turnings today. Cored the large bowl but drought the core will be worth saving.
Client wants shallow type salad bowls but I explained to them today with pictures that may not happen due to the amount of cracks. I will try to salvage what I can but leaning more towards small natural edge bowls.

And the heart wood is turning dark gray to black and it sits a while. I need to go back out and take another picture of the black natural edge.

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