Correct sequence for using sander sealer and abrasive paste.

[Graeme Broad]

Hi, new to this forum and need som advice.
I make my own sander sealer and shortly my own abrasive sander.
I assume that I use me sander sealer, then the abrasive paste, followed by a wax polish finish.
Can someone confirm that is the correct sequence.
Thanks,
Graeme

 

[Emiliano Achaval]

Welcome to the forum. Your steps sound about right. I use an abrasive paste on my threaded boxes. Not sure what it has in it, but I do not have to use an oil such as Walnut or Danish oil. I do not use the process you mentioned with big pieces, such as bowls. Only on my smaller work like the boxes. There are literally hundreds of ways of finishing your work. Try it this way and see how it goes. What are you planning on using it with?

 

[Bill Blasic]

I found that I got a much better finish by not using the sanding sealer just the paste and polish. I suggest you try it both ways and see which you like better.

 

[Graeme Broad]

I found that I got a much better finish by not using the sanding sealer just the paste and polish. I suggest you try it both ways and see which you like better.

Great. Good advice and I will do as you say.

 

[Graeme Broad]

Welcome to the forum. Your steps sound about right. I use an abrasive paste on my threaded boxes. Not sure what it has in it, but I do not have to use an oil such as Walnut or Danish oil. I do not use the process you mentioned with big pieces, such as bowls. Only on my smaller work like the boxes. There are literally hundreds of ways of finishing your work. Try it this way and see how it goes. What are you planning on using it with?

Bowls, candle holders etc.

 

[Keith Perry]

I’m a new turner - how come the abrasive particles don’t imbed in the wood, or do they?

 

[Steve Worcester]

I’m a new turner - how come the abrasive particles don’t imbed in the wood, or do they?

They will, but the real item to consider is what the final products use is and what the final finish is.
The abrasive paste is going to have some sort of carrier, often a wax like compound, which makes it only compatible with that type of finish.
But the question I am guessing has to do with the final use, if it is going to be food use, don't use an abrasive paste, period.

 

[Steve Nix]

food for thought.. if an home made abrasive paste is made from beeswax, mineral oil and a food grade diatomaceous earth wouldn’t it be considered food safe?

 

[Brian Gustin]

food for thought.. if an home made abrasive paste is made from beeswax, mineral oil and a food grade diatomaceous earth wouldn’t it be considered food safe?

I'd say so. D.E. is used in some home remedies , Mineral oil is sold (food grade) at pharmacy as a laxative, so there's nothing particularly toxic as a whole - only issue might be in how clean the combination is kept (and how clean it is when it is made).

 

[John Walls]

D.E. is only dangerous if you breath the dust. I spread it lightly on the floor in my coup and wear a mask while doing so.

 

[Steve Worcester]

food for thought.. if an home made abrasive paste is made from beeswax, mineral oil and a food grade diatomaceous earth wouldn’t it be considered food safe?

Probably.

Anyone have an idea of what micron size DE is?

 

[Brian Gustin]

Probably.

Anyone have an idea of what micron size DE is?

quick google search:
They average only 5 to 20 microns in diameter, yet have a surface area several times greater than any mineral with the same particle size. Diatomaceous Earth Uses As a dust against fleas, lice and other external pests on dogs, cats, and livestock. Use full strength as a talcum powder to rub into dog or cat coats.

 

[Steve Worcester]

quick google search:
They average only 5 to 20 microns in diameter, yet have a surface area several times greater than any mineral with the same particle size. Diatomaceous Earth Uses As a dust against fleas, lice and other external pests on dogs, cats, and livestock. Use full strength as a talcum powder to rub into dog or cat coats.

I guess it depends on what you want to do with it. The inconstancy in the particle size in this case may be an issue, but 20 micro is the equivalent of about 1000P or 500 CAMI abrasives and 5 micron would be about 4000P or 1500 CAMI.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Hi, new to this forum and need som advice.
I make my own sander sealer and shortly my own abrasive sander.
I assume that I use me sander sealer, then the abrasive paste, followed by a wax polish finish.
Can someone confirm that is the correct sequence.
Thanks,
Graeme

I don’t use either of those products. I don’t think that sanding sealer is necessary on most woodturnings. Abrasive paste would be used to shine the finish, but the downside is that it doesn’t level the surface so it highlights tiny imperfections. I wouldn’t use abrasive paste on bare wood because some of the grit will forever be embedded in the wood. I finish the finish by sanding with fine grit sandpaper and a compliant backing pad with increasingly fine grit to achieve the desired level of shine.

 

[Bill Blasic]

I sand to 280 or 320 then use the sanding paste, after putting on a healthy coat of the sanding paste I run the lathe as fast as it will go and start wiping with paper towels pressing harder as I go. When this hard pressing turns up no more color on the paper (I feel at this step the finish is equal to at least a 1000 grit and there are no visible scratches) it is ready for the wax finish where I use the exact same steps as the sanding paste. The finish is a soft glow and handling leaves no finger prints.

 

[Amy Baumgart]

I’m assuming that use of an abrasive paste with wax means you cannot use a penetrating oil as your final finish? I stopped using abrasive paste for that reason. Is my thinking correct?

 

[Aaron Harris]

I’m assuming that use of an abrasive paste with wax means you cannot use a penetrating oil as your final finish? I stopped using abrasive paste for that reason. Is my thinking correct?

A couple of thoughts: 1. I agree with Bill Blasic that no sanding sealer is needed with any abrasive paste I have tried. It just feels like a waste of time. 2. You absolutely can use any kind of oil you want directly over abrasive paste after you clean off the residue with a dry paper towel while still at burnishing speed. I have used TruOil gunstock finish (essentially a wiping varnish), the various Tried and True oils, walnut oil, and I'm sure some others I have tried and forgotten. They penetrate and set up just fine even with multiple coats burnished in on top. Sometimes the Beall progression on top of that if I want serious shine. I have pieces all over the house in these various finishes, and they have held up flawlessly. Try it, and I think you will be surprised.

 

[Bill Alston]

I don’t generally use the stuff but I have read you can use it on bare wood. It can also be used on wood that has had sanding sealer applied to it. I gather from that, that is up to the user to experiment?!

 

[Randy Anderson]

I use abrasive paste on all my hollow forms and traditional style bowls. My understanding (not experience) is you can put just about any other finish over it assuming you get the residue off. I use shellac as my goto finish over it all the time but haven't tried anything else. I did try oil over the paste but didn't feel the oil really added anything. The paste seems to add the same tones and color to the wood that the oil would have. I apply it with the white 3M pads and use the grey or a clean white 3M pad as my final buffing pad to get all the residue off I can. I've never really tried a sanding sealer other than shellac which is often used as a sealer but, that's not how I'm using it.

 

[Bill Alston]

This chart gives some indication of what finishes are compatible.

 

[Mark Jundanian]

This chart gives some indication of what finishes are compatible.

View attachment 60358

What is the source for that chart.

 

[Bill Alston]

What is the source for that chart.

It’s based on Chestnut data. Redrawn as the original was difficult to read.

A2 Compatibility Chart | Chestnut Products - First for Finishes

A hard-wearing, heavy duty version of our Compatibility Chart

chestnutproducts.co.uk