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create PowerMatic 3520 subforum?

Should a PM 3520 subforum be created?

  • Create the 3520 subforum

    Votes: 31 43.7%

  • Don't create the 3520 subforum

    Votes: 28 39.4%

  • Create a permanent thread in the Tips section with pointers to "important" 3520 threads

    Votes: 12 16.9%
  • Total voters
    71
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Jeff Jilg

Jeff Jilg

Joined
Apr 9, 2004
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Location
Austin, TX
Website
www.woodturner.org
There has been a suggestion to create a PM 3520 subforum.

I like the suggestion of a 3520 subforum because the 3520 does seem to be one of the more popular lathes right now. One thing to consider is clutter. If we had 10 different subforums on lathes it might be hard to navigate.

Another thing to consider is to have a permanent thread in the Tips subforum. That thread would be updated with links to the more "important" threads about 3520.
 
Lathe manufacturer sub-forums

I am very hesitant to interject a personal opinion on how this board is run because the folks that do all of the work are always trying to remain responsive to the community that uses these boards. Both the thought and work that goes into keeping this web site and the forums informative and active is first class. Please don't interpret anything that I say in this post as a criticism of the efforts.

I understand that this lathe in particular is very highly thought of from a functional perspective and sold at a very attractive price point. It is not surprising that it become a very popular choice with turners. And we all know that these forums have become one of the best places to connect with people who know something about equipment you own or are considering buying. These two factors are probably the main reasons that there is a lot of very informative discussion about this specific piece of equipment.

The volume of discussion on this specific lather aside, I would be a little concerned that creating specific threads for any manufacturers products could(would) be interpreted by some forum visitors or equipment manufacturers as the AAW implicitly or explicitly moving from a position of impartiality towards one vendor or another. Just the act of creating the forum for one specific piece of equipment does give the impression that the item is more important than its peers.

If you doubt that having this forum present would be interpreted in this way think about if you were a newbie and found the AAW web site and there is only one lathe that is explicitly mentioned and supported? Sounds like an endorsement, actually it sounds like what the advertising industry calls "Product Placement". You see this all of the time when some actor on a TV show is drinking a specific beverage while engaging in witty dialogue. And yes the advertisers pay big bucks for it.

I can't imagine having the perception of non-impartiality would be a good thing for the national organization or any of our local chapters. I suspect that the support and participation of all manufacturers is important to our clubs, and to the national symposiums. Remember, that sometimes it doesn't take much to offend someone in a marketing role at one of these manufacturers. And there can be long lasting effects from such an event.

If the intent of creating the special topic is to make it easier to find information on lathe setup and configuration maybe it would be better to create a forum called something like "Lathes & Setup" or something similar. If you consider the many topics that come up repeatedly you can probably think of some additional high level forms that if they existed would help visitors navigate through the discussion. Some examples could be things like "Sharpening", "Harvesting Green Wood", "Finishing" or "Hollowing".

Jeff
 
If we end up getting sufficient votes to have a lathe subforum for PM3520 then I'll make the subforum. If people want another subforum for a VB36 lathe then we'll make that too. The advantages of the subforums is they could make info on those lathe models easier to find. The disadvantage is we might end up with a proliferation of subforums.

But just because we make one of more subforums for special topics does not mean the AAW supports one lathe manufacturer over another. It only means that forum participants want a focused way of dealing with a specific topic. We've had a number of newbies join the forum over the past year and a common question is about a specific lathe. If we can help focus info for them then it is helpful from the AAW perspective of promoting woodturning and helping woodturners.
 
3520 Subforum/Tips Link

Jeff,

I like your reasons for a permanent 3520 Tips Thread with Links to the main thread. That way, if I understand correctly, any new updates would float to the top of the main forum, signaling new activity. Otherwise we would be bouncing between two forums to find any new posts. Also everyone, 3520 owner or not, would be more likely to benefit from the dialog in a single forum. We wouldn't want to isolate ourselves.

At the risk of complicating things, since the Jet1642 and the 3520 similarly benefit from tips, should we do this as a common effort and name? The current thread for the outboard tool rest makes this point.

Would the proposed Tips 3520 Links thread show if there were new posts to a specific 3520 thread? That would be nice so you could quickly monitor 3520 threads of interest to see if something new was up over past weeks. This may not be feasible with the software, though.

Jerry
 
Jeff I have trouble keeping up with all the different newsgroups now. Another heading to look under would just be a pain to me. Unless you have a specific problem with 3520 most of the questions would be more general and good for all lurkers. Even a modification to the Powermatic might be adapted to other lathes. I certainly don't feel owning a powermatic doesn't put me in an elite class of some sort. Should we start a Glaser tool owner seperate group or possibly a John Jordan tool owner?
We really appreciate the care you guys are giving this site so I roll with whatever you guys think is best. thanks for the good work
 
Kurt (and all) - the poll results will be public when the poll is over. I think this mechanism of voting is best because it kinda keeps the vote from getting gamed. I will disclose that 23 votes have been cast at this point.

Jerry - if we made a new subforum it would work just like the current main text forum and the Tips subforum. New items would show up as new items just like the current forum, except they would show up in the new subforum only.

John - I somewhat agree with your consideration. However as a moderator this site needs to serve the membership and we need to enable the exchange of ideas. If a subforum helps and there is a large vote from the membership then we should consider doing it. I agree it is difficult to keep up with different forums. I'm so busy now that I rarely look at WC or WOW.
 
Why not just make several subforums for the most popular manufacturers like jet, powermatic, and oneway!!
 
Jeff,

I know of forums on other topics that are impossible to read through because of all the sub forums that have been added. At what point do you draw the line if you start this - how many of the subforums would we have to visit to find information we could adapt to our own lathes?

There is a very good search engine - no problem to use it and let the forum stay uncluttered.

My $0.02 worth.

Wilford
 
I would advise voting NO.

The value of this kind of forum is in the diversity of posts on a wide range of topics. I can tell you honestly that I don't have time to read every post, however I do try to read threads that are relevant to my interests, or those that might be useful in the kinds of tools and techniques I use. On occasion I read Woodcentral turners messageboard, and perhaps Wood Magazine Turners list, WR, WOW, and a few others.... the AAW forum provides a good 'broad spectrum' resource that I enjoy, and consider this as one of the 'perks' of my AAW membership.

Segregating a large number of these posts to a 'sub-group' of this forum would functionally isolate these posts from "the main stream" readers who could ultimately benefit from reading about PM 3520 threads, whether or not they have that lathe (I have a Jet 1642-2HP, but still read the PM threads). If necessary, these PM threads could be retrieved through the use of the search engine if the 3520 purists want to 'auto-isolate' these threads themselves. I think the whole group would lose a great deal of the important diversity if this subforum (or others) were to be created.

For over 10 years I have been a member of another internet forum related to hobbyists growing cacti and other succulent plants (this is related to my botanical research). In the past 5 years or so, a number of smaller "specialist" subgroups have spun-off of the main group "cacti_etc", and today the thread traffic is less than 50% of its former levels, and not nearly as helpful to the whole group (which has over 1,500 subscribers, worldwide). People don't have time to scan multiple forums, as was suggested by another poster to this thread. There is value in crosstalk among specialist groups, the AAW Forum provides this, and as we are all united in the common interest of spinning wood to create interesting forms and having fun doing it, I don't see the need or the value in factionalizing the group by interests centered around a specific tool or a specific method. As was mentioned previously, I don't think we need to take the suggestion to an ad nauseum level, where we start making "The Cyanoacrylate Users Subforum", or the "Vicmarc Chuck Users Subforum". We all benefit from reading the diversity of threads in one main forum - I urge you to vote no if you have not already done so.

Let the search engine do the specialization for those that desire it, and continue on with an excellent resource for woodturners.

See you in Louisville!!

Rob Wallace
Ames, Iowa
 
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This poll will be open until Friday. So far we have had 46 poll responses. I didn't know this would be such a popular/hot topic.

If the subforum is created, it will readable and open to all.
 
Permanent thread in the Tips section with pointers recommended (3rd Alternative)

The comments on the proposal have been thoughtful. It seems to me the Tips Thread with pointers (3rd choice) may be a good middle ground that responds to some concerns.

- All messages are still posted in one place, the main forum. Everyone can see them and benefit, 3520 owners or not. The primacy of the main forum is not diminished.
- Selected "important" 3520 messages are bookmarked or linked in a single Tips thread in the current Tips subforum.
- Only substantive 3520 ideas and tips are highlighted. This avoids a "search" and sorting out of the the casual messages and playing with search strings. It also avoids casual inquiries perhaps best suited to the main forum.
- The 3520's profile on the site is modest avoiding any appearance of bias
- It still promotes a richer 3520 specific discussion and library of tips
- A subforum could be reconsidered later
 
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Everybody's got one and here's mine ......

My opinion is that creating a sub-forum for the 3520 would be an effective way of killing off postings about the lathe once the initial flurry of activity has subsided and the newness has worn off. If the AAW forum had a huge volume of postings, it might make more sense, but I envision an inactive forum where people are hesitant to post anything because of the low level of participation. One does not need to be a 3520 owner to answer some questions generically, but non-3520 owners are probably not very likely to browse through such a sub-forum. I guess that I don’t need to say how I voted.

Bill
 
For an organization that is tasked to be INclusive, I'm unsure that segregation (separate-but-equal?) is a good plan. It also sets a questionable precedent. Do we then have a Stubby forum? Oneway? Robust? Where does it stop, [Crapsman]?

I see 3520 questions come up on the board often, but I rarely jump in and only with some info I got from other 3520 owners.

If users are too lazy to use the search button to find old threads, they're not likely to have a real need for the information to begin with, and I'll bet you see the same questions repeated about as soon as a particular thread drops to the second page of archives.

Beside, it just increases the work for the monitors, who, overpaid though they may be, deserve a break now and then.

Yeah, my vote's a secret too. :D

Opps, that sould be "moderators." I think "Monitors" are some kind of lizard. ;)
 
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Jeff,

I has been my observation that most of the posts asking for help with Powermatic are not Powermatic specific and in fact appy to other lathes as well.

I don't think any feature of the Powermatic is unique to it or even to the Jet 1640/powermatic family.

Other lathes have:
Spring loaded spindlelocks
Sliding head stocks,
Hand wheels that don't have threads
Guards that get in the way .....

Having a separate powermatic forum just means you only get powermatic users looking at what are general questions.

happy turning,
Al
 
The one unique feature the 3520 has is the sliding headstock. Maybe a couple of other lathes have them but it's not common. However, I would agree that this single feature would not be a great driving force in having a separate subforum.
 
Sliding headstock

Jeff,

My Delta X5 has the sliding headstock same as the 3520 - in fact it is sitting with a platter slid all the way to the right side as we communicate! Based on my research when I was deciding what to purchase so does the Jet 1642 and I think the Jet 1442 does also. That is not as unique to the 3520 as PM makes it out to be when you really look at other lathes that are available with that feature.

Wilford
 
PM3520 Tips and Links (Example only. Is this all we need?)

The following links may be of special value for the Powermatic 3520a, 3520b lathe. Of course they may apply to other lathes as well!
Indexing
http://www.woodturner.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=1637&highlight=3520
http://www.ccsi.com/~jjilg/ (go to "Woodturning Fixtures and Jigs")
Manuals
3520a
http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/partfiles/Powermatic Model 3520A Lathe.pdf
3520b
http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/partfiles/m_1352001.pdf
Maintenance/Adjustment
Bearings
http://www.woodturner.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=1637&highlight=3520
Hot Inverter Box
http://www.woodturner.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=917&highlight=3520
Outboard Tool Rest
http://www.woodturner.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=284
http://www.woodturner.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=1670&highlight=3520b
http://www.customwooddesign.com/woodturningaccessories-2.html
Reviews 3520
http://www.woodturner.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=909&highlight=3520b
http://www.kestrelcreek.com/toc.htm?id=12&cat=review
http://www.woodcentral.com/bparticles/3520.shtml
Spindle Lock
http://www.woodturner.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=792&highlight=3520b
Spindle Nut 1-1/4 8TPI (use to make fixtures)
http://www.mcmaster.com/ (Enter Find part # 90521A275)
Make a face plate or other fixture
http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/looking.pl?noframes;read=3583
Tap and Die 1-1/4 8TPI (use to make threaded fixtures of wood)
Die part # 1-368-27-8
http://www.jtsmach.com/jtswebshop/Taps_Dies/T126a.asp
Tap part # 1-368-27-8
http://www.jtsmach.com/jtswebshop/Taps_Dies/T060.asp
 
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I too think it sets a precedence that I don't want to follow. I like the banter (when it's nice) in threads that when split into sub-forums you wouldn't get. The devils advocate or wink and a nod, if you will.

We went through a lot of dialog originally about subforums and have kept them to a minimum, just so everyone gets exposure to a more broad set of information.

I think that if you were to just keep updating the Jerhalls message, you accomplish the same thing (I had no idea Jeff had a website, then figured out he hasn't updated it in a while). Or if someone is so gungho about putting this info somewhere, perhaps put up their own website dedicated to the product and tweaks.

(I also think it's interesting that out of 1779 members, less than 80 have even put in a vote)
 
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Currently there are still less than 80 votes, so the votes have tapered off. I'm closing the poll and making the results public.

We may have gotten a few more votes but it probably would not have changed the percentages much. The results look pretty close, and are not showing an overwhelming lead of one option over another. Plus I think Steve should get 5 votes since he has been the main moderator for years - so that would pretty much even it up.

Jerry has created a pretty good set of links that should satisfy most inquiries about the 3520. Those links should go into the Tips section as a new post.

Jerry - can you post a new thread in the Tips section by copying your source text and pasting into the new thread. (Sometimes I use NotePad or WordPad to hold the text for that).
 
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