"Curly" figure and "fiddleback" figure....proper application of the term.......

[Odie]

As much as I can tell, the terms "fiddleback" and "curly" are applicable to the same general figure patterning in several wood species. The term "fiddleback" is, or almost always is, associated with maple almost exclusively, while the term "curly" can be applied to any wood species with that particular grain patterning. I believe I've seen curly/fiddleback figuring in more than a couple species, but I have these two examples that are readily available to me for this post.

It may be that, technically speaking, maple would be the only species that would properly be termed as "fiddleback", because that is the only (?) species that is commonly used for violins........

discussion?

ko

 

[Ken Kimbrell]

I don't know about the figure terminology, but the bowls are nice. Especially number two.

 

[Odie]

I don't know about the figure terminology, but the bowls are nice. Especially number two.

Thank you, sir.......

We have plenty of informed turners visiting this forum regularly......those who have knowledge and/or opinions will show up soon.

I only have an opinion on this matter.

ko

 

[Jamie Straw]

Les Paul....

I'm no expert, but a quick look at the Les Paul forum (go here to drool over pictures) provides some pertinent information:
"Wavy grain is called “curly” when waves can be measured in terms of numbers per foot and “fiddleback” when waves are measured in numbers per inch. True fiddleback is restricted to uniform, straight-grained wood of high quality; curly woods frequently exhibit sloping grain. Trees are tested for evidence of curly/fiddleback grain by chipping away the bark and examining the inner wood."

I retrieved a piece of curly maple from a friend's firewood pile this summer, very corrugated looking, and was just now interested to read "Wood with curly or fiddleback figure commonly is cut in a manner to display a radial surface, which would be corrugated if the wood had been split." There's other information there about how the type of cut affects other figures also.

 

[john lucas]

Well I've also heard Quilted Maple and tiger stripe maple referred to in some ways but never knew exactly the difference. Same is true for Fiddleback and curly. I like Jamie's description.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

only difference I know of John is that calling something tigre stripe seems to make it sell better.......people are not confused by the term

 

[Odie]

I'm no expert, but a quick look at the Les Paul forum (go here to drool over pictures) provides some pertinent information:
"Wavy grain is called “curly” when waves can be measured in terms of numbers per foot and “fiddleback” when waves are measured in numbers per inch. True fiddleback is restricted to uniform, straight-grained wood of high quality; curly woods frequently exhibit sloping grain. Trees are tested for evidence of curly/fiddleback grain by chipping away the bark and examining the inner wood."

I retrieved a piece of curly maple from a friend's firewood pile this summer, very corrugated looking, and was just now interested to read "Wood with curly or fiddleback figure commonly is cut in a manner to display a radial surface, which would be corrugated if the wood had been split." There's other information there about how the type of cut affects other figures also.

Thanks, Jamie......That sounds like a good standard for determining the difference between curly and fiddleback. You're right.....those Gibson guitars are definitely worth a drool! There definitely is a difference between the waves of maples.....some very tight, and some, not so much. Going by that, I'd say both my examples above are probably more in line with "curly".

One thing that isn't clear from that, is whether the term "fiddleback" can be applied to other woods, or is it a term specifically meant for maple....? I believe "curly" is a term that is universal, and has application to any wood with that particular grain pattern.

only difference I know of John is that calling something tigre stripe seems to make it sell better.......people are not confused by the term

Hi Charlie.......You know, my interest in this word is specifically whether I can use it as a sales tool. It's sort of a "buzz word", that can have an emotional appeal stronger than the word "curly" has. As for "tiger stripe", I've always thought of it as patterning that has more distinct differences between the dark and light......but, then again......I don't claim to know any more than what I feel about words.....rather than knowledge of official definitions. "Tiger stripe" has the same sort of emotional appeal that "fiddleback" has......

ko

edit: That which brought me to this point, is I sold this bowl today, and while reviewing the listing, I was wondering how I could have better presented it in the description. I did use the word "curly", but I was wondering if I could acceptably have used the term "fiddleback".........?

Since it isn't maple......then maybe only the word "curly" applies.......?

 

[Odie]

Charlie.....this is more in line with what my thinking is concerning "tiger stripe"......

 

[Odie]

I might be tempted to call this Movingui bowl fiddleback, but could I correctly do that....?

ko

 

[Bill Boehme]

I have some quilted maple and it does have a quilted look ... no mistaking it for fiddleback, tiger stripe, or any of those other names. I think of tiger stripe as being similar to fiddleback except the stripes aren't straight and the width varies. However, my definitions are just mine and may not match what anybody else thinks.

BTW, one of the local woodworking stores sells maple turning blanks that are just called "figured" without any statement about what kind of figure. Sifting through what was available, and being a bit disappointed in what I saw, I had to conclude that most of the "figure" was taking place at the cash register.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Thanks, Jamie......That sounds like a good standard for determining the difference between curly and fiddleback. You're right.....those Gibson guitars are definitely worth a drool! There definitely is a difference between the waves of maples.....some very tight, and some, not so much. Going by that, I'd say both my examples above are probably more in line with "curly".

One thing that isn't clear from that, is whether the term "fiddleback" can be applied to other woods, or is it a term specifically meant for maple....? I believe "curly" is a term that is universal, and has application to any wood with that particular grain pattern.



Hi Charlie.......You know, my interest in this word is specifically whether I can use it as a sales tool. It's sort of a "buzz word", that can have an emotional appeal stronger than the word "curly" has. As for "tiger stripe", I've always thought of it as patterning that has more distinct differences between the dark and light......but, then again......I don't claim to know any more than what I feel about words.....rather than knowledge of official definitions. "Tiger stripe" has the same sort of emotional appeal that "fiddleback" has......

ko

edit: That which brought me to this point, is I sold this bowl today, and while reviewing the listing, I was wondering how I could have better presented it in the description. I did use the word "curly", but I was wondering if I could acceptably have used the term "fiddleback".........?

Since it isn't maple......then maybe only the word "curly" applies.......?

This one is a lot like tiger stripe in my personal definition.

 

[Bill Boehme]

Charlie.....this is more in line with what my thinking is concerning "tiger stripe"......

I don't see any figure. If you are thinking of the growth rings then definitely not figure, just interesting grain.

 

[Bill Boehme]

I might be tempted to call this Movingui bowl fiddleback, but could I correctly do that....?

ko

Tiger stripe for sure.

 

[Odie]

I have some quilted maple and it does have a quilted look ... no mistaking it for fiddleback, tiger stripe, or any of those other names. I think of tiger stripe as being similar to fiddleback except the stripes aren't straight and the width varies. However, my definitions are just mine and may not match what anybody else thinks.

BTW, one of the local woodworking stores sells maple turning blanks that are just called "figured" without any statement about what kind of figure. Sifting through what was available, and being a bit disappointed in what I saw, I had to conclude that most of the "figure" was taking place at the cash register.

Bill......there is a description of "quilted" in Jamie's link......definitely a separate figure pattern than fiddleback. Apparently, it's the way it's cut that makes the difference between the two patterns.

Can "quilting" be descriptive of wood, other than maple.....?

Ha, ha.....funny about the "cash register comment!..... The same sort of "buzz word" theme that the word "figured" draws, catches some of us, as buyers of bowl blanks, too!

ko

Here's one of my quilted maple bowls:

 

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

the only people profiting off of whatever they name the wood is the ones selling it.

curly = fiddleback = tiger, IMHO. I think it's more a regional thing.

 

[Odie]

I don't see any figure. If you are thinking of the growth rings then definitely not figure, just interesting grain.

More thinking about the dark mineral stains in that one.....it was sold to me as "tiger stripe", but that is probably another man's opinion, as well.

Tiger stripe for sure.

.....would definitely call that one "curly", and possibly "fiddleback"....but, that's only my opinion.

ko

 

[Odie]

the only people profiting off of whatever they name the wood is the ones selling it.

curly = fiddleback = tiger, IMHO. I think it's more a regional thing.

Yeah.....pretty much so, Shawn......

Definitely seems to be an overlap of definitions and opinions here.

.....and you hit on the whole point of my inquiry, here.......my only interest is using words to help my sales!....maybe I'm not too far out of line, if I fudge the definitions just a little bit!

ko

 

[Tom Albrecht]

Very interesting and thought provoking query, and I liked the Les Paul site.

Then there's this: http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/ambrosia-maple/

 

[Bill Boehme]

Bill......there is a description of "quilted" in Jamie's link......definitely a separate figure pattern than fiddleback. Apparently, it's the way it's cut that makes the difference between the two patterns.

Can "quilting" be descriptive of wood, other than maple.....?

Ha, ha.....funny about the "cash register comment!..... The same sort of "buzz word" theme that the word "figured" draws, catches some of us, as buyers of bowl blanks, too!

ko

Here's one of my quilted maple bowls:

That is definitely quilted. I would say that it is the way that the tree grows that causes the various types of figure. If the figure was related to the way that it was cut then a round object would show various kinds of figure. I think that it was Jamie who mentioned that the figure is most prominent on a radial plane ... if you have ever cut firewood, it's the face that you see when wood is split.

EDIT: Just to add more confusion to things, I did some Googling and came up with:

• A Wikipedia article on "flame" figured maple. There are no references cited so it is just somebody's opinion.
• A description of various figure on a Les Paul forum. Of course, they have to show pictures of Les Paul guitars.

Second EDIT: Duh, I just noticed that Jamie already had posted a link to the same Les Paul web page. Sorry, Jamie.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

I might be tempted to call this Movingui bowl fiddleback, but could I correctly do that....?

ko

I would call it tigre stripe and be very happy........I have "heard" that some figure like stripes on gunstocks is artificially induced somehow with rope

 

[Charlie Knighton]

Charlie.....this is more in line with what my thinking is concerning "tiger stripe"......

I would call that "grain" with some spalting......Odie......pretty stuff

 

[Charlie Knighton]

I'm no expert, but a quick look at the Les Paul forum (go here to drool over pictures) provides some pertinent information:
"Wavy grain is called “curly†when waves can be measured in terms of numbers per foot and “fiddleback†when waves are measured in numbers per inch. True fiddleback is restricted to uniform, straight-grained wood of high quality; curly woods frequently exhibit sloping grain. Trees are tested for evidence of curly/fiddleback grain by chipping away the bark and examining the inner wood."

I retrieved a piece of curly maple from a friend's firewood pile this summer, very corrugated looking, and was just now interested to read "Wood with curly or fiddleback figure commonly is cut in a manner to display a radial surface, which would be corrugated if the wood had been split." There's other information there about how the type of cut affects other figures also.

I like the birdseye wood pattern the most and to me it is the most valuable.......I guess not for sure is the stage before burl

 

[robo hippy]

Potato/potahto...... I think the Brits refer to most of it as rippled which covers most patterns, but don't remember for sure. My favorite arborist calls it 'reaction' wood, which most of it is due to stress of some sort. However, some trees have a genetic disposition to have much more than others. I just call it figures.

Birds eye is a different pattern entirely. Many call the spots in burl 'birds eye' but that is not technically correct. Fine Woodworking did an article about it years ago. The only common thing the true birds eye trees had was that they were 'distressed'. They took cuttings and rooted them. Some still had the birds eye pattern, and some did not.

robo hippy

 

[Owen Lowe]

"Trees are tested for evidence of curly/fiddleback grain by chipping away the bark and examining the inner wood."

As I understand it, this is a good way to introduce disease into a tree and even kill it if the area chipped away is large. (Girdling the trunk is a surefire way to kill it.)
______
About 5 or so years ago, Washington clamped down on wood thieves and transporters. Seems a lot of figured maples were being cut without the owners' permission. If transporting certain woods you have to carry papers that prove it was obtained from legit sources. (I forget all the guidelines but they’re easily googled.) This caused quite a stir in our turning chapters of northern Oregon but I believe the ruckus has calmed down as folks realized the law is really looking at large raw stock or such on trailers.