Has anyone used fairly extensively D-Way tools? I'm interested in their spindle roughing gouge, Parting tool, radial skew and possibly others. Do they hold an edge,etc. and all the other pros & cons.
Thanks
Thanks
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D-Way Lathe Tools
- Thread starter Jay S Schlossberg
- Start date
I have the large spindle roughing gouge, 1/2" bowl gouge, 1/2' bottom of bowl gouge and one of his negative rake scrapers as well.
By far my favorite gouges and the NRS is great for fine/light shaping. They hold their edge as well as my Thompson and Sorby.
I have a Thompson gouge, but I am not keen on the overall shape of it. Just user preference I suppose.
By far my favorite gouges and the NRS is great for fine/light shaping. They hold their edge as well as my Thompson and Sorby.
I have a Thompson gouge, but I am not keen on the overall shape of it. Just user preference I suppose.
Thanks for the insight Daniel
IMO...Thompson, D-Way, and Carter & Sons are all comparable in edge retention though there may be marginal differences. That said...flute geometries are also a factor in how well we 'think' a tool works or as they say, individual results may vary.
Thanks for that insight John. I guess I can't go wrong with either choice.
Been using D-Way tools since I began turning over 20 years ago. Replaced the Sorbey and Crown tools I had acquired first as soon as I could. I find the gouges profiles (both bowl and spindle gouges) fit my turning style well and use them extensively. I’ve got many D-Way scrapers and beading tools, too. Over the past few years I’ve also acquired a couple of Thompson gouges - the one Lyle Jamieson designed and sells is superb. D-Way radiused skews are also a good investment - I’ve had the large one 1-1/4” I think, the 3/4” and recently invested in the 1/2” that has become my favorite for finials and detail work. I also find the two-ended, 1/2” NR scraper to be invaluable as a shear scraper.
The long and short of it is that I think I’ve got most of the tools D-Way makes and find them all to be exceptionally well suited to how I turn, but then that could be because Dave Schweitzer, the guy who started D-Way Tools was very active in all the clubs in my area and was always available to show you anything from how to sharpen to mentoring all aspects of turning. Polished flutes and great steel does make a difference, and caring customer service seals the deal. The new owner I believe continues this tradition while adding his own Boxmaster tools to the mix.
That said, I also have three Robust gouges and use them with a 40/40 grind to good effect - they, too, work well. So, the D-Ways do most of the heavy lifting in my shop, the Thompson/Jamieson is prised for the true parabolic profile and the Robust gouges are, so far holding their own, but I have the least amount of experience with them so far.
All three have worked well in my shop - combining good tool steels with cbn wheels has meant that I seldom find myself buying new tools these days.
The long and short of it is that I think I’ve got most of the tools D-Way makes and find them all to be exceptionally well suited to how I turn, but then that could be because Dave Schweitzer, the guy who started D-Way Tools was very active in all the clubs in my area and was always available to show you anything from how to sharpen to mentoring all aspects of turning. Polished flutes and great steel does make a difference, and caring customer service seals the deal. The new owner I believe continues this tradition while adding his own Boxmaster tools to the mix.
That said, I also have three Robust gouges and use them with a 40/40 grind to good effect - they, too, work well. So, the D-Ways do most of the heavy lifting in my shop, the Thompson/Jamieson is prised for the true parabolic profile and the Robust gouges are, so far holding their own, but I have the least amount of experience with them so far.
All three have worked well in my shop - combining good tool steels with cbn wheels has meant that I seldom find myself buying new tools these days.
Jay...If you've not done so already, I encourage you to read Jeff Smith's follow up post in your thread. Aside from quality of steel, take note where Jeff mentions tool geometries and 'his style' of turning. I don't believe I captured Jeff's comments as well as he did but I agree that a combination of quality steel, tool geometry, and how we individually like to turn ultimately determine what is the best tools for each of us.
Roger Wiegand
Beta Tester
I love my D-Way skew. All of the edges are polished and rounded exactly as I might hope them to be. I have lots of tools from Thompson and think the steel may be superior-- they seem to stay sharp forever-- but they often require a fair amount of finishing work before they can be used. Not bad on the gouges, but the beautifully finished, ready to use DWay skew was head and shoulders above the others. Note I've had this skew for a decade or more, can't comment on the current product-- it may be identical, but I haven't looked.
Thanks for all your advice and comments.
I have this gouge also. It works very well, but…it is not a parabolic flute, in case someone must have the parabolic shape.
No, the Thompson/Jamieson is not parabolic, much to my disappointment after having purchased one based on their claim. I've got a collection of gouges that were marketed as parabolic but are instead rounded-V. My current daily driver is a Robust, which is parabolic, as are some of the English brands.
I've used D-Way bowl gouges for over 20-yrs - after a conversation with Dave, I came away convinced he had good control over his production/quality - the gouges I bought 20-yrs ago are the same as now. The M42 steel retains it's edge well with mesquite and walnut, about all I turn - never had a break in spite of the stupidly large logs I rough and shape. As I only do hollow-form, I've never been interested in flute design - I keep my wolverine on one setting for all sizes: 3/8, 1/2 and 5/8 - the "grind" is the "fingernail" they come with.
With all the variables found in one log to the next, I keep my tooling and techniques as constant as I can - if you get the results you want, why look around?
As the girls say: "It's not the tool - it's the craftsman"
With all the variables found in one log to the next, I keep my tooling and techniques as constant as I can - if you get the results you want, why look around?
As the girls say: "It's not the tool - it's the craftsman"
I never got to meet Dave Sweezy, proper spelling unknown, but he founded D Way. I consider Dave Schweitzer to be a friend, and same with Jimmy Allen who now owns D Way. I consider the flute shapes of the D Way to be very similar to the Thompson tools, and have a number of both, 1/2 and 5/8 mostly. They are an 'open' V flute, which is easier to mill. Both work well with the swept back wings and the 40/40 grinds. The D Way and Thompson are my go to tools for skews and gouges, though I don't think I have any detail spindle gouges from D Way. As far as edge holding abilities, I can't tell any difference between the M42 and the V10. Same with sharpness. D Way also has a bunch of smaller NRSs intended for boxes, and Jimmy started as Box Master. He has a tool rest for boxes that I REALLY like. Small diameter round rod that is case hardened. I did have Jimmy send me a number of unground blanks for me to grind my own way, and some are NRSs, and others I have turned into skew chisels, and yes, I am trying to learn how to use the skew chisel for some thing other than mumbly peg if you are old enough to remember that game..... I like both Jimmy and Doug as people. Not sure about the Carter and Son tool guy. He does have a true parabolic fluted gouge, the Mike Mahoney signature gouge. I do have a 3/4 SRG also from D Way. Don't use that much though. Most of my spindles are smaller, and I use the skew to rough them out. D Way also makes CBN wheels, and they are most of the ones I have in my shop. I do buy from friends first. Don't know if there is any superiority differences between them and Woodturner's Wonders. Pretty much every one has CBN wheels available now days.
robo hippy
robo hippy
Reed - I believe Dave Sweazy (sp?) and Dave Schweitzer founded D-Way together. Dave Sweazy was the very first person I met in the parking lot of the very first meeting of the turning club in Fife Wa. A very personable, friendly and welcoming guy - he passed in a freak, non-turning related accident shortly after I met him and Dave Schweitzer carried on developing the tool business.
I'm not a production turner - far from it. As mentioned above in a couple of posts - neither D-Way nor Thompson have true parabolic flutes - the Robust gouges do. I added both Thompson and /robust gouges over the last year or so in order to experiment with them to find what works for me. In truth, I find them all suitable to the way I turn. For that matter, an old Diatomic (sp?) gouge I bought very early in my learning curve still sees use and is a comfortable old friend. I'm of the belief that its a simple matter of tuning the tools' approach to the wood that happens as you're turning that determines how efficiently that tool geometry cuts for you - a slight turn of the flute or bringing the handle up or down a little is part of the adjustment we make as we approach the blank. Turning may be mostly muscle memory, but fine tuning the direction of the bevel and where you're cutting on the tools edge does most of the work to make the cut efficient.
As Reed says, I find little practical difference in the metal between D-Way and Thompson - both hold an edge a remarkably long time unless I've got a chunk of black acacia on the lathe (that stuff eats metal for lunch). The Robust Turner's Edge gouges are still a work in progress for me, but my impression is that I seem to go to the grinder just as frequently with them all. I do like the flat ground on top of the flute side the full length of the tool a plus. The nicest part of using CBN wheels is that less metal is removed (less time at the grinder) to bring an edge back to sharp - tools last longer. The polished flutes of the D-Way tools is a plus for me; seems to be easier to see the cutting edge for me, and the shavings really fly off the tool (but then I may just be a victim of my own hyperbole).
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As I mentioned in the Carter and sons thread, the one-way mastercut gouges are worth a look. A deeper wider parabolic flute on a 5/8 gouge, huge as compared with Thompson, D-way and Robust.
As pointed out by you Doug, and also Karl and Reed, unless they have changed their flutes profiles recently, neither the Thompson BGs (and therefore Jamieson) nor the D-Way BG flutes, or for that matter the Glaser HiTecs, are parabolic.
I posted on that in detail on another thread...
Bowl gouges with V flutes, not parabolic
On the tool steels, most turners won't notice much difference between M42 and 10% Vanadium in everyday use. However, under controlled test conditions I found that the 10% Vanadium had a more durable edge when doing heavy cuts...
But the M42 took a finer edge that did light finishing cuts for longer than the 10% Vanadium gouge...
So, there is some difference in the performance between M42 and 10% Vanadium (A11) under controlled conditions, but this may not be obvious in everyday use and other variables also come into play like the woods we are mostly turning and our preferred turning styles.
I have equal numbers of M42 and 10% Vanadium (A11) steels in my tool rack and equal numbers of parabolic and V flutes on my bowl gouges. I prefer some over others for different cuts, but all are good tools and all are in regular use.
IMO, you won't go too far wrong starting with any of those tools, but may lean one way or the other in your preferences with further experience of them.
As others have also pointed out, all of the A11 gouges I have seen have required some initial work on their flutes to grind and polish out the milling/grinding tracks left in them. The aim is for the flutes to be as fine or finer than the finish you get on the bevel off your grinder. I prefer I mirror finish in the flute, but only take it to that level of polish near the working tip.
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I have a D-way negative rake scraper and 3/8” spindle gouge. Both are very nice.
My experience with A-11 (Thompson) and M42 (Crown) mirrors @Neil S post above. The A-11 lasts longer when roughing through bark etc, and the M42 takes a keener edge for final cuts - however, I sharpen with a wet stone wheel. I have read in a few places Al-Ox cant grind the individual carbide, whereas cbn can, whch could make a significant difference in final cuts.
This is my personal take on grinds, flutes and steels. Done right they will all work flawlessly! I have had the great opportunity to have about 30 of the worlds best woodturners teach here in my home and shop not counting those that I have traveled to learn from. You know they have to be good to make a living doing what they do. Generally they espouse a brand or certain tools that they make or feature or use because they may be paid one way or another to do so. But I cannot tell you the number of times I have seen one of these pros take a gouge from a student that has just a pitiful grind and make a really good cut with it and then say to the student this grind needs improvement, let me show you. They are pros because they can take any grind, flute or steel and make it work. But what they all have in common is that regardless of these combos sharpness is above all else. I myself settled on Thompson tools and God knows that I have tried a whole lot of different ones. Every flute or grind has a sweet spot where it works the best and it's knowing where and how to use it is what matters. With that I settled on the Vector Grind System where I have the same grind on every tool that I use. I use it on every tool that I have tried whether a V or a parabolic shape (all except the U grind which I find rather aggressive in comparison to a V flute so they are not a go to tool for me. The U does not accept wings either). If I ever ran out of Thompson tools my only other choice would be D-Way as they are the closest thing to Thompson tools (I do have some D-Ways). Choice of steel, flute and grinds are up to the individual but to be used to their best they need to be sharp.
I have and use tools from all of the major makers, but my favorites are all D-Way. I currently have a 1/2" bottom bowl gouge, 3/8" spindle detail gouge, his biggest round-nose NRS as well as a spear-point NRS, and love them all. I'm sure I will pick up a couple more of his tools the next time he advertises a sale.
i have many D-Way tools and consider them to be very good i use them almost every day and when i wear one out i dont hesitate to order a replacement. i also have 3 Thompson gouges which are high quality tools as well but i do find that i use the D-Way more often
Let me provide my non scientific opinion.... I have the L 1.25" D-Way SRG and I love it. I have enough gouges and and skews that I can just swap out the edge for the next sharp one in the drawer. I look forward to reaching the Thompson gouges in the line. They cut so smoothly and stay keen the longest. I have balanced this style of turning with a very long sharpening session at the end of a turning marathon so the tools remain sharp and if I turn wet logs, oiled.
The SRG is the most important tool I feel needs to be razor sharp. I think it's so easy to notice when the bowl and spindle gouges are dull (and especially the skew), the frustration cut really stands out, but if I let my SRG get dull I just start tearing up the grain and curse afterwards.
The SRG is the most important tool I feel needs to be razor sharp. I think it's so easy to notice when the bowl and spindle gouges are dull (and especially the skew), the frustration cut really stands out, but if I let my SRG get dull I just start tearing up the grain and curse afterwards.
I agree with Bill Blasic. You can make almost any tool cut. In my experience, different steels feel totally different as they cut and M42 feels really different compared to CPM10V.
90% of my tools are Thompson but I think that each manufacturer has some great tools and some that are not so great.
I got a D-Way Thin parting tool as a gift from dale Larson and it performs better than any thin parting tool I have used before.
Fot thread chasers I find the old carbon steel ones are way better looking and perform better than the modern hss ones, Carbon steel cuts "sweeter", even makes a different sound when cutting.
Normally we buy tools because we like them, but (in my opinion) we should try to use what we have. Great tools make life easier sometimes but only practice makes as better turners.
90% of my tools are Thompson but I think that each manufacturer has some great tools and some that are not so great.
I got a D-Way Thin parting tool as a gift from dale Larson and it performs better than any thin parting tool I have used before.
Fot thread chasers I find the old carbon steel ones are way better looking and perform better than the modern hss ones, Carbon steel cuts "sweeter", even makes a different sound when cutting.
Normally we buy tools because we like them, but (in my opinion) we should try to use what we have. Great tools make life easier sometimes but only practice makes as better turners.