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Dead Tree Wood

B

Bernie Kopfer

Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Messages
77
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59
Location
Wenatchee, WA
In my neighborhood there are two large side by side birch trees that died last winter. Two foot plus at the base, which is large for around here. If I were to obtain some pieces of these trees what would I encounter? Would they be semi-green, would they finish drying evenly, would they have internal cracks etc?
Before I find out the hard way, what has been other‘s experience in this situation?
 
This is some of my first wood that I got from a tree limb that had been down approx. 3 years. It was a big tree to begin with, walnut and this was just a portion of it.
It wasn't dripping water but it was fairly easy to turn still. I'd have to look at my posts to see exactly but it's probably ready to finish turn now I just haven't looked at it or weighed it.

Anyway, the guys on here didn't like it too much because of something called "ring shake" in it. You can see where the center has separated in a circle following a ring. If you find my old post someone highlighted it better.

Me being new and practice makes experience for me I cut blanks from around the ring shake since there was enough thickness. I didn't have any problems rough turning the bowls but it remains to be seen how they finish turn. I called them blanks but they were pretty rough because I don't have a band saw so I just mounted them on the lathe and beat them into submission.

edit* some of the wood towards the front of truck was fresh cut at the time.
 

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I’ve been turning somemadrone that had been standing dead for several years - don’t know exactly how long, but probably in the 5 year neighborhood.
It was cut down a couple months before we harvested, and it was at about 14 - 16% MC.
it turned just fine - roughed, allowed to dry/stabilize, then turned to final as a lidded bowl. This is a form that requires nice, stable wood free from warping. It has performed better than most madrone in that regard. Don’t know how ash will perform, but my experience with standing dead wood has been good as long as I’m not into punky stuff - the spalted wood seems fine.
My advice - take a chance.
 
A friend of mine purchased some Redwood cants.....about 30" in diameter. Squared up on the sides. About 10' long. Stored them with stickers in a barn......for 17 years.
I slabbed one for a friend. When I got to the middle of the tree, the wood was still damp. Not soaking, but damp.
 
Bernie Kopfer said:
If I were to obtain some pieces of these trees what would I encounter? Would they be semi-green, would they finish drying evenly, would they have internal cracks etc?
Click to expand...
You can expect anything from solid wood to falling apart punky. Agree with @Dean Center
Examine the chainsaw face on a round. Is it solid? or punky? In between?
If the wood is solid, roughed out bowls should dry for refinishing using you drying method for green wood.

I got permission to take a walnut tree I know was down for 3-4 years. It was on a hill such that most of the 12 feet of the trunk was not in ground contact. The sapwood was gone but the rest was solid and not dry.
 
Huge difference between standing dead and trees on the ground. As Al pointed out, those not in ground contact have a better chance of not having turned the corner from spalt to rot. The species has a big influence, too. On my property there are several standing dead red alder trees. Alders only live for about 40 or 50 years and go from salt to rot at the speed of light - even without ground contact.
I have limited experience with Ash, but I’d at the very least get a round from as low on the trunk as possible, take a good look at the end grain, and go ahead and rip out the pith. Check the two blanks - is the sapwood solid? Rough turn one and see if it’s worth the effort. If it is, get as much as you can…
 
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Here is the bottom line. You never know what you will get until the tree is down and cut into blanks. I have gotten rotted, punky wood, good wood, ant and termite nests, spalting and metal objects. I have described looking at a tree I'm going to get as Christmas morning. Mother Nature has packed some wonderful gifts in the tree, or some gifts that were like underware from Grandma.
 
“You never know what you will get until the tree is down and cut into blanks. I have gotten rotted, punky wood, good wood,”

And sometimes it’s all in the same tree!
 
I have gotten a few standing dead trees. For reasons unknown, they seem to check much sooner than standing live trees. For madrone, my favorite wood, If I get spring sap running trees, I get far fewer cracks than I do if I get a mid to late summer harvested tree. Maybe it is because of the outside is drying, and the inside is still damp, and cutting cants off of a log will 'release' some of that tension by cracking, which is pretty much what most cracking is about....

robo hippy
 
the problem with White BIRCH is that with the high sugar contend of the BIRCH tree, and a impervious bark (the reason it was used for canoes), he wood will degrade much faster than other species of trees.

Over here that even with the long freezing temps the BIRCH will degrade in two years and goes from solid to spalting and rotten in short order, even if you cut it down when still solid, with the sugar and bark of the BIRCH the degrading will start and continue till the wood moisture is under 20%, I will cut the bark and peel it off to prevent or prolong the wood from going bad.

So to the OP, do not wait with taking the trees down and processing of the wood, if only dead for one year and still standing I would expect the wood still being in good condition, another year and it probably start falling apart.

I got some pictures of White Birch pieces I turned from a very large White Birch tree clump base, where Birch is mostly plain white, this has lots of color and nice grain, which you can find in large Birch tree wood, also a crotch platter.

large Burch shallow bowl.jpgWhite Birch bowl.jpgLarge White Birch bowl.jpgBirch crotch platter.jpg
 
JeffSmith said:
corner from spalt to rot
Click to expand...
Decay or rot are the same thing and spalt is just a form of initial rot/decay that occurs due to the sugars in the woods and you can make syrup from maple and birch sap.
Birch goes from spalt ( beginning rot) to major rot probably faster then any other species.
In the lakes country where I live anyone making firewood from birch will cut and spilt it before it can even think about rotting.
 
around here we have many zombie trees. that appear to be healthy mature trees, but already rotted punky and hollow. i cut a large bird cherry down last year. trunk, chest high was rotted almost clear through only solid wood was a few inches around the cicumference.
in addition, standing trees dont normally go from healthy to dead ina single winter. probably had internal problems for years.
 
All of the maple trees have a lot of sugar in them. A big leaf maple here, can go from solid wood to stick your finger through it in about 2 years. I have noticed that a lot of trees the wood can be shiny and bright for a month or two, then it seems to lose that luster. Again, this is worse with trees that have high sugar content.

robo hippy
 
Dean Center said:
Sorry to hijack the thread, but Leo, what sort of finish did you use on that box? It kept the color very natural, without any yellowing. Really nice.
Click to expand...
Thanks Dean,
Dean I'm quite sure I used PTO (Polymerized Tung Oil) as that has been my finishing treatment for a long time, I find that the PTO does change the color some, but less than other oils I know of
 
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