Delta Production Quality Control

[GeorgeH]

Found a Delta 28-276 on sale and couldn’t pass it up. Brought it home and began the assembly process. Found a strange part (lift shoe) lying lose inside the box. Just about finished with assembly and found that the tension lever didn’t work; no way to get tension on the blade. So I took the upper wheel assembly and blade guard housing apart to see what might be wrong. Turns out the tension crank was broken and the part I had found lying lose inside the box (lift shoe) was missing from its place in the tension crank cavity. Additionally, the piece that had broken off of the tension crank was nowhere to be found. Now what really bothers me about this is that neither the lift shoe nor the broken piece from the tension crank could fall out of the cavity with the blade guard housing in place. There was no evidence that the tool had ever been removed from its shipping box. That would means that the damage had been covered up when the tool was packaged at the factory. I’m a fan of Delta tools - but this incident does nothing to bolster my support for their products.
I didn’t waste time trying to get a replacement part under warranty and just made an improved version of their original tension crank (which is cast metal) using a grade five bolt and some ingenuity.
Thought some of you might want to know about this experience so you can watch for similar issues in your future.

 

[Barbara Gill]

I found that to be true of Delta many years ago when I was still doing flat woodworking. I bought a Delta sliding table for my tablesaw. After wasting a number of hours assembling it and trying to get things square I realized that because of poor workmanship it would never square up. I returned it. There have been too many stories like yours and mine over the years for me to ever consider buying Delta again.

 

[Norm Smith]

Deltas quality control is done by the consumer. They expect you to deal with the problems. A few years ago I had a problem with their large lathe which I purchased new. The headstock wobbled, I sent it back and they sent me a new one, which wobbled. I sent the whole lathe back and bought a powermatic. It was two months of misery but I did get my money back.
Norm

 

[Bob Hadley]

When researching VS lathes a few years ago, I passed on Delta. A cursory inspection revealed the headstock had been assembled first (spindle, etc.) and then painted bearings and all. That may be fine for a $200 lathe, but is not acceptable, in my view, for a $2k lathe.

I hope Delta executives read these posts. Not sure it will do any good. You never know.

P.S. I'm a proud owner of a made-in-USA vintage Unisaw and I’m never selling it. My lathe: a Jet 1642VS.

BH

 

[Charlie Harley]

I passed on Delta tools years ago after struggling with quality issues with a band saw.

Jet, PowerMatic, Porter Cable... They've all served me well.

 

[odie]

It's disappointing to hear that about Delta. Delta has been a name that meant quality in years gone by.

The last Delta I purchased was a standing drill press about 20yrs ago. It's been a great investment on my part......a quality machine. It and the older Delta/Rockwell finishing machine are superb quality. Of course, my 1950's vintage Delta table saw is built like a tank, and is one of the reasons why Delta has name recognition.

Is Delta now made overseas?

otis of cologne

Here's a pic of the 1950 Delta table saw.....man, I love this saw!

 

[n7bsn]

The "Consumer/Hobbiest" line from Delta has certainly tanked
The "Pro" stuff from Delta is still holding up it's value. But the prices are often !!!!!

I just got one of their high-end Drill Press's and it's what I would expect from Delta

I sold the Delta lathe I had, it wasn't

 

[Bill Grumbine]

I've been wanting to replace my drill press with one of those variable speed ones, but could not bring myself to buy the Delta after using a bunch of their newer equipment over the past 20 years. My old Delta stuff - (1971 and earlier) were great, and continue to do well today with their new owner, but I am put off by the poor quality of their newer stuff and don't want to take the risk. I am waiting to see how the new Powermatic does after a while. :cool2:

 

[john lucas]

My Delta drill press and my Delta bandsaw are all over 15 years old and I really like them. I looked at the Delta 16" lathe when it first came out about 5 or 6 years ago and the one on the showroom floor at a woodturning symposium had a spindle that wobbled and the whole think kind of rattled. If that's the kind of thing they would display during a show I didn't want any part of it.

 

[Tom Lewis]

I have some old Delta tools and they are excellent tools. A few years ago I bought a Delta drill press and found it to be in the same catagory as Harbor Freight tools only it cost more.

 

[Bob Hadley]

Personal anecdote: I was shopping for a drill press at the Pomona Woodworker Show a couple years ago and was looking at the Delta VS drill press. I reached up and pulled down the handle (a normal test drive) and sliced my knuckle on a burr as it went past the belt cover. I guess the ten seconds it would take to deburr that part is too much to ask of the Chinese factory. This is what I expect from green painted machines, not gray. Disappointing.

 

[Ed_McDonnell]

In my opinion, the problem isn't the chinese factory as much as it is Delta's decision to cut corners on design and quality control.

10+ years ago I bought a Delta table saw that was made in China. It's a good piece of equipment that has served me well. Last year I bought a Delta drill press that was made in China. It's a major disappointment to me and it is the last piece of delta equipment that I will ever buy.

Considering the high quaility I see in other chinese sourced tools I've bought in recent years (jet and powermatic for example) I suspect that the problem isn't completely the Chinese factory. Somewhere along the way it seems that Delta lost it's focus on producing a high quality product. Was it a result of trying to squeeze out more profits? Inept management? Who knows, but I blame Delta management a lot more than I blame some chinese worker.

I also won't be buying any more porter cable tools because I figure the delta cancer has spread to them by now as well.

Ed

 

[Jake Debski]

Personal anecdote: I was shopping for a drill press at the Pomona Woodworker Show a couple years ago and was looking at the Delta VS drill press. I reached up and pulled down the handle (a normal test drive) and sliced my knuckle on a burr as it went past the belt cover. I guess the ten seconds it would take to deburr that part is too much to ask of the Chinese factory. This is what I expect from green painted machines, not gray. Disappointing.

The Chinese factory will only do what the purchaser(Delta, Jet, etc.) demands they do. Just like here. But here product and consumer regulations, as well as fear of class action lawsuits, encourage better production practices. Now that Delta, Porter-Cable, etc. are owned by B&D it remains to be seen if quality goes up or down, or perhaps we already are seeing the results?

 

[Bob Hadley]

I agree with Jake and Ed, but my comments might appear as if I don't.

To clarify my statement a bit further:

I have spent many days and weeks in Chinese factories. In fact I am in Asia, right now, touring various production facilities.

I've been in factories where there are clean rooms and CNC machines and in factories where the toilet is an open trench adjacent to the production area. When I tell you a factory stinks, you can believe it.

I’ve also toured the factories making $2 electric drills for Big Box Marts. They make them by the millions and I cannot imagine they work for even 10 minutes. No matter, the average consumer sees a $9.99 electric drill and gets all excited. When they go to use it in a few months and it doesn’t work they hardly care. It was only $10. And the store takes it back anyway.

There are excellent factories in China and especially Taiwan. There are also horrible factories. You basically can get whatever level quality you want to pay for.

Where the so-called value-added resellers (VAR = people who don't make their own stuff) go astray is trying to make a bad factory do good work. No matter how many inspectors you put in line, the minute they look away, production starts cutting corners and shorting work. This is the inevitable by-product of the pay-by-piece production.

I remember one egg-head CEO telling me how proud he was, after two years of “mentoring†a cheap-o factory, how he finally solved the quality issues by having round-the-clock inspectors at every station. I asked him why he didn't just go to a factory that knew what it was doing. All I got was that “but this one goes to eleven*†look.

Delta would probably like to have everything perfect, but they probably like it more that the cost is so low.

If you want a low price that bad, you will get it that bad.


*A Spinal Tap reference.

 

[waltben]

I've got to agree about the consumer grade quality of Delta tools, but what no one's mentioned is their customer support. I started turning on a 1440. Over three years of fairly heavy use, the on/off switch and the tool rest lock handle both broke in separate instances. After calling their CS, I had free replacement parts in two days, both times, no charge. Got to give them credit for that at least.

 

[KEW]

I agree with Jake and Ed, but my comments might appear as if I don't.

You basically can get whatever level quality you want to pay for.

Except in the case of Delta, you get to pay a bit more for that level of quality.

I have a USA made Delta bandsaw. It is great!
It makes me sick the way such a icon of woodworking has "sold the farm".
I suspect somewhere there are some Delta executives counting the extra money from their bonus checks for all of the extra short term profits they made charging real money for dummied-down tools - before we figured out that this wasn't the same Delta we knew and admired!
I think much of the blame goes to the modern emphasis on bonuses based on immediate profits (often based on creative financing) rather than raises with an emphasis on long term profitability.

 

[Frank F]

"We've met the enemy and the enemy is us." (I forget the source of this quote)

Here's how recall Delta's decline.

I started building my workshop in the mid 80's. My first machine was a uni-saw made in USA, followed by a DJ-20 jointer made in Brazil, then the Delta 14" band saw made in USA and so on. I still have and use all these machines.

I made these purchase over a few years. With every tool I noticed a decline in quality and progressively "dumber" instructions. The instructions were limited to basics operations with less and less emphasis on the tool's capabilities. Maintenance and adjustment (tune up) instructions became almost nonexistent.

So why do I blame us? Too many of "US" bought JETs.

Before purchasing each major machine for my shop, I looked at my options. When Powermatic was still Powermatic, their machines had different specs and design and the quality seemed better, but the price was higher too. At the time PM seem more industrial than I needed as a hobbyist. (Boy did that attitude change over the years ) On the other hand, Jet just shamelessly copied Delta's specs (motor size, capacity) and overall design; and price was always a little cheaper. When I'd look at them in stores, the overall quality of the JETs seemed shoddy compared to the Deltas. Back then, I viewed JETs as cheap knock off's. I always paid the extra money and bought the Delta.

Apparently I was in the minority. As one salesman told me years ago, JET had Delta on the run, "JET is "killing" Delta".

So Delta started competing with JET with their consumer tools in the late 80' early 90's. Delta gradually gave us JET quality. Why? Because too many of us said that's what we wanted by buying JETs. I'm not giving Delta (Pentair, B&D) management a free pass (why didn't they buy Powermatic), but we consumers need to share some of the responsibility for the choices we have now.

So now Delta vs Jet? Depends on your color preference; do you prefer gray or off white. Okay maybe it's not that bad, but it's not as cut and dry as it was 20 years ago either. Look at the reviews on Amazon for JET and Delta tools. They all have their own issues.

I know that many of you may disagree with me, but this is just my option based on my recollections.

Frank

 

[blackhorse]

"We've met the enemy and the enemy is us." (I forget the source of this quote)

That was Pogo Possum, sir.

I agree with most quotes. Bob Hadley is right and I have similar Asia experience. Don't blame the Chinese, blame the sellers. They can get any level of quality they want in China.

My last Delta was a scroll saw. Disappointing. Any manufacturing exec who adds inspectors and thinks it's a good thing is 30 years behind the times. IMHO, B&D is the worst quality stuff. One of their ex-execs ruined the company I worked at for 32 years with the same approach he used at B&D- make cheap stuff and market the hell out of it.

 

[n7bsn]

,.... and I have similar Asia experience. Don't blame the Chinese, blame the sellers. They can get any level of quality they want in China.
....

Exactly, this same point used to come up when discussing Taiwanese tools, and Japanese, and....

Quality costs money

The real problem with jobbing out any manufacturing to China/Taiwan is not that you can't get a quality product, but rather what else happens there.
Lotus Machine Co (a fictional company) makes your wiget to your spec. They then turn around and make a quick-substandard version to sell to his cousin, who sells a crap clone of your product on the gray market.

Taiwan has learned it's in their best interest to clamp down on these gray market clones.

China hasn't. I know of one firm that the cloner even copied their literature, including the 1-800 help line.