Demonstrator agreement / contract

[Margaret Stiles]

Hi, I am Margaret Stiles in Fort Collins, Colorado. I have been turning for about 6 years. I like to turn a variety of things, I figure I’ll try anything once.

I am the vice president and program director for the Rocky Mountain Woodturning club. Our board of directors has discussed whether we should use an agreement or a contract when we book a demonstrator to come to our club. So far, I have been either calling or emailing potential demonstrators and then following up with an email that stipulates what we agree upon as far as the fee for their demo and a class and travel expenses. This gives me the details that I can refer back to as time goes by. I am just curious what other clubs use and if you would be willing to share what your club does. Thanks!

 

[Dave Landers]

Of the ~30 demos I've done in the last ~7 years, I've signed a contract only once (not counting symposiums).
If we make a verbal (phone call) agreement, I make sure it's followed up with an email so the details are clear and written.
I have no problem with a contract. Just sayin that, it hasn't been the norm for me.

 

[R Henrickson]

In 15 years I don't think I've ever had a written contract for a demo, except for symposium demos. In person discussions, phone calls, and email have worked. If your current procedure works and prospective demonstrators are satisfied, why change. Even many of the one-day classes I've taught have been verbal agreements.

 

[john lucas]

Ive been doing demos for at least 15 years. Other than the big symposiums I've only had to sign a contract a few times. I don't have a problem with it. It's just not very common.

 

[hockenbery]

I’ve never done a formal contract for demonstrators or multi day workshops for clubs
as a host or as the demonstrator teacher.
( symposiums and craft schools do have contracts and w9s)

I do try to make it very clear what we are doing for the demonstrator.
Travel, demo fee, workshop fee, tools we are providing, wood we are providing, food, lodging, fun stuff like a canoe day etc.

Many times there is coordination with other clubs or regional symposiums. Is the regional symposium ok with covering the plane fair if the person stays an extra week to do I class.
If we hand off the demonstrator to another club are they paying half the plane fair?

 

[robo hippy]

I have never signed a contract for doing a demo, and I go back maybe 20 years for doing them. One thing I would suggest is a "reminder" of the upcoming demo. I missed 2 last year. One was because I had been removed from the news letter list so I didn't see that I was scheduled to demo, and the other, for our local club was a similar thing. The editor of our newsletter was in the hospital for surgery, and the newsletter did not go out.... The memory is the second thing that goes as you start to get old! What's the first thing? Um, err, I can't remember!

robo hippy

 

[Brandon Luster]

Hi Margaret! I'm not a demonstrator, so I have no input from that standpoint.
However, as a past turning club board member, I am curious what the perceived benefit would be to the club by formalizing the agreement into a contract? (Surely not as a tool for enforcement?)

In the 2 years I was a board member, we had 3 demo hiccups that I recall:
1) a demonstrator was frustrated about having a class cancelled due to the club's inability to fill it
2) a demonstrator cancelled with plenty of heads up and we were easily able to replace them
3) a demonstrator no showed with no warning due to personal issues and we got very lucky finding a replacement

In each of these cases, I can't imagine how a formal contract would have improved the situation.

I can see how the Program Director role would be fun, getting to know and interact with world class talent.
However a "contract" would suck a bit of the fun out of the whole thing, and make the role less appealing. To me at least.
BWL

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

We do not do any type of contract . In the 13 years I have been on the board or near as an advisor I only remember one hiccup when we were surprised at the mileage charged. Yes we have had to reschedule but that is the kind of thing that just happens when dealing with people. Actually had a internationally known turner we rescheduled twice due to transportation canceled due to storms.

 

[Jerry Bennett]

It is expensive to hop an airplane, flit across the country, ship tools, get a room, find places to eat, rent a car…
It is the demonstrator that is hanging out with this deal. A club can spend bucks promoting an event even in some cases renting a facility. They can be hanging out with a bunch of eager learners plunking down cash to sit in that chair. They are hanging out too.
It is business. Execute an agreement stating what each party is required to do. It is especially important to a demonstrator. There is nothing noble about a handshake if there isn’t a clear understanding. I do not care if the world is not doing it.
Eventually online demos will be the norm anyway.

 

[Michael Anderson]

I’ve done 35ish demos/workshops at this point. I’ve signed a formal contract a couple times. Margaret, I have your email, and will send you the one I signed for Ohio Valley Woodturners Guild.

Most of the time, there is a record of communication via email. However, I think a contract is a nice thing to have in place, as it includes everything in one document (payment, travel information, location, time, materials, contact information etc…). It’s much more convenient than sifting through email chains to find info. Additionally, often times the person you communicated with is not the same person that is directly paying you. Contracts also serve to protect both the demonstrator and club.

They can also prevent disputes from happening. For example, when I demoed for a south Atlanta club recently I heard a related story. A demonstrator had negotiated a specific amount with the program director. When he gave the demo, the program director was absent, and the treasurer refused to pay him the agreed upon amount. A contract would have precluded this issue.

I’ve also made a silly mistake and nipped myself $50 because I forget the agreed upon amount when asked by the treasurer on the spot. I ate my mistake, no worries—it was my third demo in 2 weeks, and I confused myself. Again, a contract would’ve prevented this.

 

[Jim Reynolds]

I've never demoed for money. I have been on the board of directors of a woodturning club. My opinion is that the title of the document is less important than it being clearly written, comprehensive and a single document. The goal is to prevent confusion, misunderstanding and errors of omission.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

I am not aware of anybody having to sign anything to do a demo at our club.

 

[Donna Banfield]

Contracts have always been used for any Symposium appearances, whether the AAW or regional ones.

About half of my appearances for clubs have had contracts. The larger the club, the more formal the arrangement.

And I respectfully disagree with Jerry Bennett on all demonstrations eventually going to online. If the request is for surface embellishments, which is what has always been requested from me, I could no longer afford to do them. I did them for about 2 years in the middle of the pandemic. But when shows returned, and in-person events came back, I couldn’t justify the time I spent preparing for a 2 hour online demo. It took 3 days. Nothing I do can be done in a day, let alone 2 hours. So an entire day was spent making several piece up to a point where I could spent 10 minutes showing the technique. Then another day clearing the area that I would set up for the demo, and pull all of my equipment from their locations and the-assemble them for that demo. Then set up two laptops, 3 web cameras, my iPad to control the cameras and make sure everything worked. The third day was spent doing the demo, then breaking the cameras and laptops down, and putting all my equipment back in their usual locations.

Yes, I understand that I could simply run videos, but I’ve never heard a club member on the viewing end say they liked them. That’s not a demo, but a webinar. So I would not do them. I could not keep all that computer equipment out, and wired in a fully functioning and daily used wood shop. I needed the space it occupied and could not keep it entirely dust free.

Sorry to hijack the original thread.

 

[Jerry Bennett]

Contracts have always been used for any Symposium appearances, whether the AAW or regional ones.

About half of my appearances for clubs have had contracts. The larger the club, the more formal the arrangement.

And I respectfully disagree with Jerry Bennett on all demonstrations eventually going to online. If the request is for surface embellishments, which is what has always been requested from me, I could no longer afford to do them. I did them for about 2 years in the middle of the pandemic. But when shows returned, and in-person events came back, I couldn’t justify the time I spent preparing for a 2 hour online demo. It took 3 days. Nothing I do can be done in a day, let alone 2 hours. So an entire day was spent making several piece up to a point where I could spent 10 minutes showing the technique. Then another day clearing the area that I would set up for the demo, and pull all of my equipment from their locations and the-assemble them for that demo. Then set up two laptops, 3 web cameras, my iPad to control the cameras and make sure everything worked. The third day was spent doing the demo, then breaking the cameras and laptops down, and putting all my equipment back in their usual locations.

Yes, I understand that I could simply run videos, but I’ve never heard a club member on the viewing end say they liked them. That’s not a demo, but a webinar. So I would not do them. I could not keep all that computer equipment out, and wired in a fully functioning and daily used wood shop. I needed the space it occupied and could not keep it entirely dust free.

Sorry to hijack the original thread.

Of course I do not have a crystal ball. It just seems travel and shipping is skyrocketing and as the technology gets better, online will be more attractive. My guess is only the bigger clubs will be able to afford live demos. Online presentations are affordable to smaller clubs. Right now only a few demonstrators have the tools and the video expertise to do a professional top notch online demo but that I believe will change over time. Just think, a club with 25-30 members could sign up for a 2 hour demo with questions and answers but could never afford to make it happen live. To me it is a logical progression.
I could be wrong.

 

[Rusty Nesmith]

Of course I do not have a crystal ball. It just seems travel and shipping is skyrocketing and as the technology gets better, online will be more attractive. My guess is only the bigger clubs will be able to afford live demos. Online presentations are affordable to smaller clubs. Right now only a few demonstrators have the tools and the video expertise to do a professional top notch online demo but that I believe will change over time. Just think, a club with 25-30 members could sign up for a 2 hour demo with questions and answers but could never afford to make it happen live. To me it is a logical progression.
I could be wrong.

I agree. Our club is around 40 members and IRD demos are much more affordable.

 

[Michael Anderson]

I agree. Our club is around 40 members and IRD demos are much more affordable.

Depends on the demonstrator, of course.