I would like to try my hand at making some simple tools in addition to the basic ones I have. What type of metal is recommended? Where can I get it? Thanks.
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DIY turning tools
- Thread starter John Torchick
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- do it yourself metal tools
John-
I have made a number of turning tools. The square HSS cutter stock is available from sources such as MCS, Enco or Ebay in small quantities. I have bought and used 1/8" and 3/16" square material. I have made scrapers from planer blades (1/8"x1"x4") I purchased on Ebay. Steel round stock for the shafts from 3/8" to 1-1/4" I've found in the scrap bins at my 8-5 job. I have bought carbide cutters from Carbide Depot. I have done all the work with a drill press, chopsaw, grinder and my lathe. I have a welder that I occasionally will use if I'm making a tool rest or a hollowing tool.
The metal work is sometimes a nice diversion from all those wood chips
have fun-
Patrick, thanks for the info. I have everything you mention and my neighbor has a welder.
Edit: what specific carbide cutters do you use or recommend?
Edit: what specific carbide cutters do you use or recommend?
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John-
Here is the link. I used the 8mm round cutters with appropriate fastener shown at the top of the page but they have a number of them to experiment with. I liked that they mentioned these were for wood and for hand made tools.
http://www.carbidedepot.com/wood-turning.aspx
Thanks, again! I saved it to Favorites for future reference.
This is a great source for HSS tool bits - http://www.wttool.com. Enco has some wider 3/4" x 1/4" and 1" x 1/4" bits for making scrapers. You can also make some nice gouges in your own shop with the round stock sold at these two places.
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I have used ⅜" diameter O-1 drill rod from Enco to make hook tools. For hook tools and other tools that require bending and shaping, O-1 is a good choice because it is fairly easy to anneal, harden, and temper with simple things like a MAPP gas torch for annealing and hardening and an ordinary oven for tempering. With HSS, you are basically limited to grinding to the desired shape. Flat HSS bar stock works fine for scrapers.
Following up on Bill's comments about O-1 - Here is a link to a handout I put together for some work I did making tools. The last two pages cover my first experience tinkering with hardening O-1 tool steel. It shows the one brick forge set up I made for it.
http://tri-colorturners.com/wordpress/?p=204.
Enjoy!
http://tri-colorturners.com/wordpress/?p=204.
Enjoy!
I have an IR propane heater that should heat to about 1800 deg. F. Would that work? What color should I look for when heating? Thanks again!
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Enco is rather skimpy on information, but the tool steel from McMaster-Carr comes annealed so that step can be skipped before working it. If you did need to anneal it, you would heat it to bright red or orange and use the magnet test that Matt mentions in his link. When the steel is annealed, it needs to be cooled very slowly. Something like the brick furnace might work well for that.
After working the tool to shape, it is heated again to the same color temperature and held there for a couple minutes for a small rod. Next, it is quenched in oil -- stirring quickly to get fast cooling. I don't know about using mineral oil for quenching -- I would be concerned about it catching fire because of its relatively low flash point. There are some vegetable oils that have a very high smoke point. The person who showed me how to make hook tools used extra light olive oil for quenching. I had not thought about a toaster oven for tempering after hardening by quenching in oil, but if the tool fits inside, I suppose it could work. I just used the kitchen oven at around 425° F for about 30 minutes. What you are looking for is a straw colored oxidation. A tempil stick is more precise, but judging by color is probably more than good enough.
After working the tool to shape, it is heated again to the same color temperature and held there for a couple minutes for a small rod. Next, it is quenched in oil -- stirring quickly to get fast cooling. I don't know about using mineral oil for quenching -- I would be concerned about it catching fire because of its relatively low flash point. There are some vegetable oils that have a very high smoke point. The person who showed me how to make hook tools used extra light olive oil for quenching. I had not thought about a toaster oven for tempering after hardening by quenching in oil, but if the tool fits inside, I suppose it could work. I just used the kitchen oven at around 425° F for about 30 minutes. What you are looking for is a straw colored oxidation. A tempil stick is more precise, but judging by color is probably more than good enough.
Mineral oil works great. Do expect a small flame upon insertion, but it is typically very short lived and that is the reason for the long handled pliers and a pair of fire retardant gloves. I attempt to insert the steel vertically and then move it up and down in the same orientation vigorously. It is my understanding, although I haven't experimented, that with stirring you run the risk of wrapping the steel because of uneven cooling. I should also add, because it looks like I forgot to mention it in the handout, that the volume of quenching oil is based on the size of the piece of steel that you are quenching. You have to have enough to dissipate the heat at the appropriate rate and you'll likely want to do several tools in succession so the oil needs to be able to handle that situation also without too much delay. I found that filling the paint can about 3/4 -7/8 (I just bought 3 -4 pints from Wal-Mart because it was inexpensive and could be stored without going rancid) full provided enough and helped reduce the potential for making a mess when inserting and agitating.
McMaster-Carr is a great source for O-1 as Bill mentions.
Added: oh, I use the toaster oven only because it allows me to go from quenching oil to tempering in the same place and keeps me from running in and out of the house to check the progress. It is a perfect size for standard turning tools and cost me less than $30 as I recall. Of course, you'll have to get an oven thermometer to check the temp as I wouldn't trust the toaster's.
McMaster-Carr is a great source for O-1 as Bill mentions.
Added: oh, I use the toaster oven only because it allows me to go from quenching oil to tempering in the same place and keeps me from running in and out of the house to check the progress. It is a perfect size for standard turning tools and cost me less than $30 as I recall. Of course, you'll have to get an oven thermometer to check the temp as I wouldn't trust the toaster's.
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You don't need to be concerned about mineral oil going rancid because it is a petroleum product and very stable. Vegetable oils OTOH can go rancid, but I don't know if that matters unless you are also using it in the kitchen.
I was told that stirring was the fastest way to cool the steel. I know a bit about fluid dynamics and uneven cooling is not really an issue with hand stirring. And, since the piece of steel is not rotating while stirring, there is no uneven exposure to fresh cool oil. Moving only up and down could lead to localized heating of the oil and slower cooling of the steel. In the real world, the pieces of steel are so small that it doesn't really matter.
I was told that stirring was the fastest way to cool the steel. I know a bit about fluid dynamics and uneven cooling is not really an issue with hand stirring. And, since the piece of steel is not rotating while stirring, there is no uneven exposure to fresh cool oil. Moving only up and down could lead to localized heating of the oil and slower cooling of the steel. In the real world, the pieces of steel are so small that it doesn't really matter.
Bill I can go with your thoughts on the heating and really never thought it would be a problem. I didn't really go with the stirring because most of the articles I read about quenching small pieces of steel warned against it. On the other hand, there were a few who endorsed stirring with no apparent issues. I stuck with the vertical method because I had limited time to produce the pieces and had never done it before. In fact, I haven't done it since, but plan to do some in the future. I'll have to give the stirring method a go.
Reference the rancid oil - I wasn't trying to say the mineral oil would go, only that I preferred it over vegetable oil because VO would eventually be a problem.
BTW, I did discover that the "One Brick Forge" comes in handy for heating hardened MT 2 arbors to soften the heads when making shopmade cup centers as in my article a few years ago in the journal. It is much better than a handheld torch or gas stove burner.
Reference the rancid oil - I wasn't trying to say the mineral oil would go, only that I preferred it over vegetable oil because VO would eventually be a problem.
BTW, I did discover that the "One Brick Forge" comes in handy for heating hardened MT 2 arbors to soften the heads when making shopmade cup centers as in my article a few years ago in the journal. It is much better than a handheld torch or gas stove burner.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I wrote an article in the Journal on making your own tools using a barbecue grill and your oven. I'm at my parents computer now so can't look it up but it was about 8 years ago. If your a member of the AAW you can look it up.
I recommende using Peanut oil because it has a higher flashpoint than motor oil and it's safe to dispose of. If you insert the red hot portion of the tool completely under the oil when quenching you won't get flame. At least that's what I learned and haven't had a problem yet. I do use the stir method again becuase that's what I learned from my master blacksmith friend. Can't verify if that's the best method.
I use w-1 steel when I make my tools because I quench in water. Much safer. I wrote that article about using files and therefore oil to quench. I don't recommend files, because your guessing about the quenching and annealing times and materials. If you buy tool steel from Enco or MSC youu can order the heat treating instructions and it will tell you exactly what to do.
I recommende using Peanut oil because it has a higher flashpoint than motor oil and it's safe to dispose of. If you insert the red hot portion of the tool completely under the oil when quenching you won't get flame. At least that's what I learned and haven't had a problem yet. I do use the stir method again becuase that's what I learned from my master blacksmith friend. Can't verify if that's the best method.
I use w-1 steel when I make my tools because I quench in water. Much safer. I wrote that article about using files and therefore oil to quench. I don't recommend files, because your guessing about the quenching and annealing times and materials. If you buy tool steel from Enco or MSC youu can order the heat treating instructions and it will tell you exactly what to do.
John, many thanks!
I have a friend who works for MSC in Chattanooga.
Edit: My neighbor is a farrier (horse shoer) and has a bucket full of old hoof rasps. Plus, he has a forge. Wonder if those will work?
I have a friend who works for MSC in Chattanooga.Edit: My neighbor is a farrier (horse shoer) and has a bucket full of old hoof rasps. Plus, he has a forge. Wonder if those will work?
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john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
John The simple way to use a file is to simply throw it in the oven at 350 degrees and let is sit for 1/2 hour. Let it cool naturally and you've tempered it enough to not make it brittle. I wouldn't want to have the teeth on my tool rest however and that's why I go through the whole annealing, and heat treating process.
I didn't have a forge so I covered the files in charcoal brickets and let the whole thing turn red hot. Let it burn out over night. Now the files are dead soft. Grind off all the teeth and rough shape the cutting edge you want. Heat the charcoal again until there are red coals and stick the tip of the file in there and let it get red enough to be non magnetic. The quench it in the Peanut oil. (old motor oil works also just do it outside )
Now it's hard and needs to be tempered. Throw it in the oven a 350 to 425 degrees and it will soften it enough to be ground on your grinder to a good edge
I didn't have a forge so I covered the files in charcoal brickets and let the whole thing turn red hot. Let it burn out over night. Now the files are dead soft. Grind off all the teeth and rough shape the cutting edge you want. Heat the charcoal again until there are red coals and stick the tip of the file in there and let it get red enough to be non magnetic. The quench it in the Peanut oil. (old motor oil works also just do it outside )
Now it's hard and needs to be tempered. Throw it in the oven a 350 to 425 degrees and it will soften it enough to be ground on your grinder to a good edge
decent steel cheap
Was out in my shop today and noticed some old air chisels and jack hammer bits laying around. I was feeling whiney about roughing a pretty nasty piece of wood with my gouge I had just put an edge on so I reached and grabbed an old jack hammer bit and made an instant skew of sorts. Probably weighed two or three pounds but it was big enough that I didn't need to add a handle and I wasn't using it long.
The good part? Rental places often have a junk bin of these pieces, many of them with plenty of life in them for the original purpose just need regrinding. All of them can be reshaped to something else. I paid one dollar for the air chisel steel and three dollars for the jack hammer steel. Throws nice feathery high carbon sparks when I grind it, no idea exactly what it is. Plenty good for a once in awhile tool or to test a design before spending bucks building something. At this price I don't mind reshaping the same piece over and over.
Just a thought when you need some steel to play with without having to order and wait for it.
Hu
Was out in my shop today and noticed some old air chisels and jack hammer bits laying around. I was feeling whiney about roughing a pretty nasty piece of wood with my gouge I had just put an edge on so I reached and grabbed an old jack hammer bit and made an instant skew of sorts. Probably weighed two or three pounds but it was big enough that I didn't need to add a handle and I wasn't using it long.
The good part? Rental places often have a junk bin of these pieces, many of them with plenty of life in them for the original purpose just need regrinding. All of them can be reshaped to something else. I paid one dollar for the air chisel steel and three dollars for the jack hammer steel. Throws nice feathery high carbon sparks when I grind it, no idea exactly what it is. Plenty good for a once in awhile tool or to test a design before spending bucks building something. At this price I don't mind reshaping the same piece over and over.
Just a thought when you need some steel to play with without having to order and wait for it.
Hu