I use 3 different grinds when making a bowl. I don’t know why, but it just works for me. I use the Ellsworth grind for shaping the outside, I use Doug Thompson’s grind for bowl hollowing, and my own grind for specific other things. I just bought my 2nd vari-grind. I hate changing settings. Am I the only one who does this.
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Do you guys have multiple varigrinds.
- Thread starter Sam Beagle
- Start date
I'd guess you are not the only one, there's at least two of us.
Not that I use three different grinds so much as I use three different wheels.
I have three grinding wheels (different grits) and three V arms, each with there own locking ring to set the distance from the base.
I use this:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrpEkWprzZc&feature=youtu.be
Not that I use three different grinds so much as I use three different wheels.
I have three grinding wheels (different grits) and three V arms, each with there own locking ring to set the distance from the base.
I use this:
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
Nope. I changed my grinds so that I can use the same setting for almost everything. I use a 40/40 grind that I hand sharpen and my scrapers are sharpened on the same station. My bottom feeder is a hunter #5 so I don't need a sharpening jig for that.
Not clear whether you mean multiple jigs or multiple settings for a single jig. In either case, there are three adjustment variables available for the Varigrind system: gouge protrusion, arm angle and V-arm placement. Taken together, they establish the values of two controlling parameters that determine the geometry of the grind. One is the Nose Angle and the other is the Swing Angle, the angle between the shaft of the gouge and an imaginary line running between the tip of the gouge and the pivot point of the Varigrind. Small changes in any one of the three adjustments can be compensated exactly by appropriate changes in the other two adjustments. (As long as you do not run out of adjustment range.)
It turns out that for grinds that have short wings, say a gouge diameter or less, the Swing Angle has a pretty much negligible effect on the results that you obtain as long as the nose angle is set properly. This is partly because to get a short grind, you do not need to rock the jig very far in the sharpening process. On the other hand, if you want long wings, the Swing Angle becomes important, because for any given value of Swing angle, the edge angle becomes blunter and blunter as you move outward from the tip and Larger Swing Angles produce more-acute edges. I and many others have found that a mid-range setting of the arm angle, together with appropriate settings of protrusion and V-arm yield satisfactory results for both short and fairly long-winged grinds. Therefore, unless you have very peculiar requirements there is no reason to change arm angle and, consequently, to have more than one Varigrind jig. By the way, when the Thompson introduced his line of gouges, he sharpened them using and arm angle set to the 4th notch from the closed position, which is about mid range, and a protrusion of 1.75 inches.
If you choose to follow this approach, you have only one parameter to set, namely the nose angle, regardless of what gouge you are sharpening. There are a variety of ways to automate this setting so that you do not have to make the adjustment by eye each time.
It turns out that for grinds that have short wings, say a gouge diameter or less, the Swing Angle has a pretty much negligible effect on the results that you obtain as long as the nose angle is set properly. This is partly because to get a short grind, you do not need to rock the jig very far in the sharpening process. On the other hand, if you want long wings, the Swing Angle becomes important, because for any given value of Swing angle, the edge angle becomes blunter and blunter as you move outward from the tip and Larger Swing Angles produce more-acute edges. I and many others have found that a mid-range setting of the arm angle, together with appropriate settings of protrusion and V-arm yield satisfactory results for both short and fairly long-winged grinds. Therefore, unless you have very peculiar requirements there is no reason to change arm angle and, consequently, to have more than one Varigrind jig. By the way, when the Thompson introduced his line of gouges, he sharpened them using and arm angle set to the 4th notch from the closed position, which is about mid range, and a protrusion of 1.75 inches.
If you choose to follow this approach, you have only one parameter to set, namely the nose angle, regardless of what gouge you are sharpening. There are a variety of ways to automate this setting so that you do not have to make the adjustment by eye each time.
I just use a scribe to remove the coating where I set the leg for different grinds. Makes a very repeatable setting that only takes seconds.
john lucas
AAW Forum Expert
I set the jig and drilled a 1/8" hole through the moveable arm so I can put a drill in that hole to exactly position the arm to it's original position after moving it. I did this because when I teach student use my jig and will.sometimes move the arm to repeat their particular grind. It's very easy for me to see it's out of position and I can set it back very simply. I use 3 point wooden jigs to set the V arm distance so I can use any grinder. I have a.wooden spacer that goes in the V Arm to move the wolverine jig forward to.sharpen my spindle gouges so the V arm stays locked on the bowl.gouge position all the time.
I change 2 parameter on all my grinds. I change the Wolverine arm protrusion and the arm setting on the varigrind.
The 3 different settings I use are pretty drastically different. The wolverine arm is like an inch different on each and the varigrind goes from setting 2-3-4 notches.
I just wanted to see if I’m the only one who used different grinds for different parts of the bowl.
The 3 different settings I use are pretty drastically different. The wolverine arm is like an inch different on each and the varigrind goes from setting 2-3-4 notches.
I just wanted to see if I’m the only one who used different grinds for different parts of the bowl.
I have two varigrinds, but mainly use just the older one, at either a three or four notch setting. The same setting on the newer one would be a 4 or 5 notch setting, as at some point they must have changed it. Not trusting my eyesight, I put screws for stops for the arms, and this makes it very consistent, as I also have wood jigs for setting the V arm. It usually takes only one flop of the gouge to sharpen, but at times I have to flop it twice. Having a lot of gouges, I used to have a lot of different settings, but am trying to cut that back somewhat. The same setting on different gouge flutes, can be very different.
Ok. So your changing the protrusion as well. I’m sticking with 2 inches no matter what
Sounds like a good plan, for the most part I use 2", or 55mm. Works for me, but just 2" would work also. My second jig, I have settings for 1,2, and 5. Use 1 and 2 for certain tools, but do not have a tool for the 5 setting. Played with it for a while, but like I said, i have eliminated some of my settings. Where I have really cut back, is my V arm setting, I now most always use 6 1/2". An inch or more change in the V arm, would be a major change. Even when I played around alot with the arm settings, I don't think I went over 1/2". I guess it all works though depending your other settings. i chose to standardize the V arm for me at 6 1/2' for most all.
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Let’s see some pics of people v arms . How they dress them
Tom Gall
TOTW Team
Over the years I've simplified my sharpening. My first Varigrind jig is so old (1990's?) it doesn't even have notches!....and uses flat-head hex bolts! 
About ten years ago I bought a second jig. It was becoming difficult to loosen and tighten the wing nut without pliers. So, now I have one permanently set for bowl gouges and the second for spindle gouges. All gouges use the same projection/protrusion and the same V-pocket arm distance. I use a piece of PVC pipe (1"?) to set the same distance consistently (pocket to frame). Life is so much easier this way! 
About ten years ago I bought a second jig. It was becoming difficult to loosen and tighten the wing nut without pliers. So, now I have one permanently set for bowl gouges and the second for spindle gouges. All gouges use the same projection/protrusion and the same V-pocket arm distance. I use a piece of PVC pipe (1"?) to set the same distance consistently (pocket to frame). Life is so much easier this way! 
I have one Varigrind and one Ellsworth jig. I can see having more than one, adjusting the leg back exactly to where it was takes a few minutes, and sometimes it's not practical to do so.
https://www.youtube.com/user/john60lucas
Great videos.
Great videos.
Ive seen a turner demonstrate a jig for resetting the angle thats just a hollowed out piece of ply he sets the jig into cut out with the profile at the intended angle. Just a matter of tightening it up after that. Should make resetting the arm angle pretty quick.
I only have one vari grind. I set it to the position Doug Thompson sent for my bowl gouges. I use the 1-3/4" protrusion and a wood block to set the V arm for these. For my spindle gouges I use the same setting for the vari grind, however a 2" protrusion and several different wood block lengths to set V arm. I'm still experimenting, but don't see a great need to reset the vari grind jig.
William, I believe you are on the right track. However, I would point out though that changing the protrusion by a small amount has negligible effect on the grind as long as you set the V-arm to get the desired nose angle. Changing the protrusion from 1.75 to 2.0 inches would change the Swing Angle (see my previous post above) by less than one degree out of about 61 degrees. The only practical reason to change the protrusion that I can think of is to reduce it as much as possible when the gouge wears down too much to achieve the desired protrusion.
I agree with you Dennis. I always used a 2" protrusion until I got the Thompson gouges. I liked the way i could use them and just adapted 1-3/4" protrusion for those, keeping the others the same. Still experimenting.
Well, I did have an Ellsworth jig years ago, but since I started platform sharpening, I don't use any jigs. Since I plan on having more workshope at my shop, I may have to invest in one or two since many will never learn to use the platform. Just looking at the Wolverine set up, it looks like they need a positive stop set up like my grinding plat form so you don't have to 'hunt and peck' to get the repeatable angles....
Maybe I have another invention to make....
robo hippy
Maybe I have another invention to make....
robo hippy
Good luck on that invention Reed. However, there are several very convenient shop-made alternatives available to those who want to invest a few minutes time to set them up. First, a gauge for setting the gouge protrusion can be as simple as screwing a strip of plywood to the grinder table 1-3/4 inch, or whatever you prefer, from the front edge of the table. (If you insist on using multiple values of protrusion, you can notch out the strip of plywood accordingly.)
Second, there are several simple methods for setting the nose angle consistently. John Lucas advocates using a simple three-point shop-made plywood jig similar to the Raptor jig. This is attractive if you frequently do demonstrations as John does and have to use grinders other than your own. With this approach you can make a separate jig for each nose angle that you use or, as John has advocated, make one for the most acute nose angle that you need and then make a set of filler blocks to fit between the V-arm and the gouge handle to achieve blunter nose angles. Note, however, that a different three-point jig is needed for every different combination of the settings of the Varigrind arm angle and the gouge protrusion. The Raptor jigs require an arm angle of 23-degrees and a protrusion of 2-inches to produce the indicated nose angle.
Another approach, which I find more convenient and considerably faster if you are using your own grinders, is to adjust the V-arm by trial and error to get a desired nose angle once and then “save” the position of the V-arm by any of several methods. The one I prefer is to cut a piece of PVC pipe to a length that just fits between the V-arm cup and the mounting bracket. I carefully slot the pipe lengthwise so that it slips snuggley over the square bar of the V-arm. I do this for each value of nose angle that I use. Like the previous approach, this requires a different PVC spacer for each combination of gouge nose angle, gouge protrusion and Varigrind arm angle. However, I use the same values of protrusion and arm angle for all gouges so I only need about half a dozen PVC spacers. Aha, you say, what about wheel wear? Well, in my case, I use CBN wheels so that is not a problem. However, as a practical matter, it takes quite a bit of wheel wear to have much effect on the nose angle. For example, if you kept the same PVC spacer as an 8-inch wheel wore down by a quarter of an inch, a 40-degree nose angle would grow to only 42 degrees, a trivial change. The typical hobby woodturner probably would rarely need to update the PVC spacers.
By the way, when I set up my grinder with the CBN wheels, I was careful to position the V-arms under the two wheels so that a given PVC spacer yields the same nose angle for both wheels.
That should have read: "....the bluntest nose angle that you need and then make a set of filler blocks to fit between the V-arm and the gouge handle to achieve more acute nose angles.
The measures for how far to extend the mount and gouge nose off of the Wolverine base are simple 'stop block' type jigs, and not worth the effort. However, some sort of system to make the angle settings on the varigrind would make repeatability exact rather than close.... I might have to buy one just to see........ You know the engineer's syndrome.... "If it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it anyway...."
robo hippy
robo hippy