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Do you teach woodturning? Looking for advice.....

Odie

Odie

Panning for Montana gold, with Betsy, the mule!
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
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Missoula, MT
For the 2nd time, now, someone at my church has asked for me to coach him in making bowls. He's 14 years my senior, and 78. I do know that he has a woodworking shop, and is not unfamiliar with woodworking......but, his lathe is small, I think......has made some pens. I've never seen his shop.

It has never been my intention to teach lathe turning, but I'm going to do it for him, because I like him.

What I'm fishing for is advice, suggestions, pointers.......because when it comes to teaching, I'm a complete newbie!

What should I know?

How should I proceed?

Thanks......

ooc
 
I have helped a few people get started and have a few thoughts:
* A small lathe is good for learning only if it is not pushed to its limits.
* Safety is an important subject for beginners and secure mounting of blanks is an important part of safety. I recommend faceplate mounting of all bowl blanks until a turner has some experience.
* I try to show them how and then let them turn. I do not try to correct all the small errors in technique but will stop them if I think they are about to do something dangerous.
 
Odie,

Teaching is rewarding and i learn a lot when teaching.

In my beginning bowl turning class I start the students on a carving mallet. A 5x5x10 or a 4x4x9
I get them used to the bowl gouge
I draw lines every half inch on one face of the blank perpendicular to the ways.
Have them point the bevel in the direction on of the line an cut straight in following the line
This is the bevel riding cut and the only one they need of the first few bowls.a
I have them rough shape the handle and the head of mallet with the bowl gouge and usually finish it with a spindle gouge.
I generally sharpen the tools for the first project.

The give them a sharpening lesson.

Second: a bowl from a disc 10" diameter 5 to 4" thick started on a screw chuck.
I generally teach cutting the tenon with a spindle gouge.
Hollowed in a chuck with a tenon.
Bevel king push cut for he whole bowl.

Reinforce the sharpening lesson

Third: bowl half a log cut round on the band saw turned between centers.
Teach grain balancing.
Just rough turned. I'll show the roughing cut with the bevel off the wood.
I also introduce the shear scrape

fourth: bowl is a half log cut round on the bandsaw. Turned to a wall thickness of about. 1/4"
Introduce the round nose scrapper. If the students are doing well it show them the Shear cut and slicing pull cuts

Fifth: project is a natural edge bowl from a half log 6" diameter 8-9 long with the ends rounded on the diameter.

This makes a nice three day workshop.


Have fun
Al
 
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Odie-

As Dennis Ford stated SAFETY is a MUST. Going over what can happen on rotating equipment, clothing, foot protection, hearing protection and breathing protection along with face shield/shielded helmets. Then go on to teach the person the parts of the lathe and the dangers. Then mount a 2 x 2 and show the person what each tool will do and how it cuts ( how the tool is presented to the wood- the right way and the wrong way- when this is done, explain what happens to the tool, wood and to him or her.) Explain how to sharpen tools and how to tell when they are getting dull-( a newbie will continue to work with a very dull tool and increase the chance of getting hurt.)

Then have him or her put the tool to the wood starting off with the ruffing gouge- having them go from square stock to round stock. At the same time explain the sound the tool makes as it is cutting the wood. Have the person make shavings using each tool until they know the sound and feel of the tool.

A white board with dry makers works wonders and helps greatly. Explain the they can't go from a Ford Pinto to a corvette without going through all the steps. Can't walk until you crawl. It helps out to have spindle turnings, platters, bowls, finials to show just what can be done. As an old dear friend of mine stated- turn, turn, turn, turn, turn and turn then turn some more. It takes lots and lots of practice.

Gary:cool2:
 
Odie,
I suggest you go to your shop and turn a bowl, if that's the subject.
As you do so, put yourself in the mindset of a beginner and explain what your doing and why. Write it down as notes to present. You should do this for lathe parts, sharpening, mounting/chucking, tool handling sanding and finishing as well as any other topics this man may need covered. Be prepared to explain aspects a second or third time, so you may need to think of two or three ways to explain the same task. This is how I prepared for the 100 or so classes I taught. Going to his shop is best, be prepared to teach him using the resources he has on hand. I know problem solving in my shop is different than in someone elses.
 
I have found that one on one teaching is quite rewarding for both. As stated in earlier posts Safety has to be first. Teaching in his shop using his tools and resources will help. You can take him to your shop and show your resources and how they benefit the task.

I try to ensure they know tool presentation for roughing, shaping, shear scraping and sanding. Outside then inside. Then reversing in a jam chuck, donut chuck or whatever means is available. Good luck.
 
Odie,

One thing I try to do is not tell beginners too much at once.
The simple explanation of how adults learn is that the put stuff into temporary memory and overnight the new stuff goes into permanent memory.
The temporary memory has a limited capacity that is different of all of us.
Once the temporary memory is filled up the individual stops learning until the transfer to permanent memory takes place.

If I have students for 3 to 5 day workshop. I don't even talk a about wood grain the the first day. I show them how to use the tools safely and to cut in particular directions ride the bevel. I try very hard to stick to basic points. I avoid talking about tools and techniques we are not going to use in the early classes.
If it is a one day workshop I try to be as thorough as possible and hope for the best.
Anyone who has ever seen the same demo for the third time and learned something new understands.

I also try to be responsive to questions which sometime take tangents. If appropriate I might say we'll be covering that tomorrow...
But often it is just a good teachable moment.
You have an advantage in knowing something about your student's experience base which you can build on.

On the flip side I once helped with a club class where the instructor began by showing 20 tools we were not going to use and how you might use them.
The effect was that by the time the main event was being taught they had mostly filled the temporary memory and class was over for those students.
They could go through the class and do the project but they didn't retain much.

Al
 
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Start with turning a bead and a cove. Explain the proper direction for turning both and what downhill means. Finally, explain that a bowl is just a bead with a cove in it (and that the directional arrows for downhill remain with the wood, not the lathe)

Steve
 
Steven Antonucci said:
Start with turning a bead and a cove. Explain the proper direction for turning both and what downhill means. Finally, explain that a bowl is just a bead with a cove in it (and that the directional arrows for downhill remain with the wood, not the lathe)

Steve
Click to expand...

There you are. Two of the four basic moves, bead, cove, plane and part. I had the kids do Shaker pegs to learn them, first demonstrating cutting with the lathe being turned by hand. Then turned the lathe on the lowest speed to keep the focus on tool presentation.

FWIW, teenage boys pay less attention than girls, and usually have to be warned a few times not to attack the wood, just wait for it to come by for the cut. Hands over hands is quite effective.
 
Having done a number of turning sessions for one of our local Boy Scout troops (woodworking merit badge), I can pass along what I do.

First and foremost is safety instruction. How the lathe works, the means and requirements for selection and then securing the workpiece, safety equipment, the various tools and their uses, and catches (there are many) and how to (mostly) avoid them. We then proceed to do a spindle-turned piece, usually an Osolnic-style candle holder which allows the student to do some roughing and then directional cutting using both a gouge and a skew. Then it's sanding and finally applying a finish (usually a couple coats of shellac), and the Scout goes home with a completed project for Mom. We've also done some magic wands. I've had more than one call from a parent asking advice on continuation including recommendations for a small lathe, beginning tools and the availability of further "lessons". Since there are several AAW clubs in the area with members who may have the time to mentor new turners, I usually refer the inquiries in that direction.
 
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Want to Teach? Take a lesson!

Odie,

The best advice I can give you if you really want to be an effective instructor, is to take a few woodturning lessons.

Seriously.

But pay as much attention to HOW THEY TEACH YOU as what they teach you.

Then, when you teach or give a demo, ask for feedback - good or bad - and let the students and observers tell you what they found helpful and what you can do to improve your lessons.

It's not easy, but it is very rewarding.

I wish you a great deal of success. Just be patient, and let the student feel the same joy you do when you get behind the lathe. Enthusiasm is contagious. Always.
 
In the event you missed it, the Members Area has a free and very comprehensive Teaching Guide including print materials and suggestions. All you need do is login to the AAW and you'll see the listing in the box on the left of your screen.
 
Many thanks to everyone who has offered their own insight and advice. I know there are some very experienced turning instructors who frequent this forum, so that's why I asked......;)

If there is any more input to this thread, it is certainly welcomed, and very much appreciated.

Because of this thread, it's given me some input to consider this opportunity to be an instructor, and how I might proceed with it.......although, as I've stated many times before, teaching is not what I aspire to do.

I'm formulating a "game plan"........and, now I have some idea of how to put it together.....:D I don't expect I'll do this with perfection, but I do know how to do what I do, and can do it blindfolded!.......Well, so, to speak!:p)

Thanks, again.......

ooc
 
slightly different

odie said:
Many thanks to everyone who has offered their own insight and advice. I know there are some very experienced turning instructors who frequent this forum, so that's why I asked......;)

If there is any more input to this thread, it is certainly welcomed, and very much appreciated.

Because of this thread, it's given me some input to consider this opportunity to be an instructor, and how I might proceed with it.......although, as I've stated many times before, teaching is not what I aspire to do.

I'm formulating a "game plan"........and, now I have some idea of how to put it together.....:D I don't expect I'll do this with perfection, but I do know how to do what I do, and can do it blindfolded!.......Well, so, to speak!:p)

Thanks, again.......

ooc
Click to expand...


I spent ten weeks long ago training one or two men in a trade. I was supposed to train two men but often one was unavailable. That is quite a bit different than teaching a group which I have done in short sessions too. Much more give and take teaching one person and of course they have 100% of your attention.

I do think it is a good idea for the first session to be at your shop and mostly show him how you do things and let him try a few minutes doing each step, mostly watching you. Explain in advance that you plan to move things to his shop taking only what is absolutely needed from yours to work there. Once at his shop or in later sessions at your shop if it works out that way, talk a little about one thing, demonstrate it, then let him work at it at least long enough to start getting a feel. Anything somebody does with their hands, they learn far better "driving", meaning with their hands on the tool. Looking over somebody else's shoulder for hours won't equal fifteen minutes with tool in hand.

Not usually an issue one on one but possible if you are feeling first time nerves, speak to the gentleman, not at him. You aren't giving a presentation and even presentations work better if the audience feels a connection.

I think you will be a great teacher, one on one or if you decide to try a group sometime. Just pointing out some of the good and bad things I have encountered with the many instructors I have had over the years and the little experience I have had as an instructor.

Being a young construction worker, when I was starting the ten week gig soon after I got the two guys to the work area I decided to tell a couple of off color jokes to break the ice. After I told a few fairly rank jokes one man looked at me. "Do you know Roger(the other trainee) is a preacher? "No, I didn't know that. Roger did you hear about the preacher and the parrot?" Over thirty years ago, Roger and I are still friends. A reward of training, both old students and instructors of mine have became friends.

Hu
 
Hi Odie,

Up to this point in the comments for this thread I don't see any reference to the AAW Teaching Guide. Log in to the AAW site (different password required than for the forum) and half way down on the left you will see "teaching guide." It's a pdf.

I find it outstanding as a guide to teaching. Besides the teaching advice, it has a excellent set of projects that are well thought out and time tested. I use this guide often when mentoring.

My kudos to Bonnie Klein and the others who put this guide together.

Dave Peck
 
Mark Mandell said:
In the event you missed it, the Members Area has a free and very comprehensive Teaching Guide including print materials and suggestions. All you need do is login to the AAW and you'll see the listing in the box on the left of your screen.
Click to expand...

davepeck said:
Hi Odie,

Up to this point in the comments for this thread I don't see any reference to the AAW Teaching Guide. Log in to the AAW site (different password required than for the forum) and half way down on the left you will see "teaching guide." It's a pdf.

I find it outstanding as a guide to teaching. Besides the teaching advice, it has a excellent set of projects that are well thought out and time tested. I use this guide often when mentoring.

My kudos to Bonnie Klein and the others who put this guide together.

Dave Peck
Click to expand...
It has been.
 
Bill Boehme said:
Some things are worth repeating. :)
Click to expand...

An important concept in teaching too.
Don't expect students to know everything you taught them yesterday, last week or last year.

3-5 day classes are much much more productive for students and teachers.

IMHO - Most students learn 10 times more in a 3 day class than they do in a one day class.
 
The most difficult thing about teaching is being able to tailor the lesson to fit the student. Beginner as in 'this is a lathe' or already has some basic skills. Does the student want to learn to turn, or want to make a bowl just so they can say they did it once? For this case, I would start with just turning a bowl since that is what they want. You can turn one while they watch, and then let them do it with supervision. It will probably take you 10 or so minutes to turn, then when they do it, it will take them at least an hour. Then break time. I wouldn't worry about sharpening and design unless they want more. Safety for sure, stand out of the line of fire, move your body with the tool, and listen to their questions. Note, be sure to make the point that any question is a good one.

robo hippy
 
Some great advise here. If teaching a general class or one on one I try to teach what I wish I had been taught. One on one you need to get a feel of what they already know. If nothing then go with rule #1 about safety #2 how to sharpen and then a simple up or down a piece of wood and a small project to make them feel happy. The look on a persons face when an inkpen is finished is super. I dont turn regular pens but at a recent meeting we had a number of lathes setup. Turners who had not done a pen before were thrilled when they put that pen in their pocket.
Since I am no good with a skew do to lack of practice, use of various gouges and what they do is the way I go. So for me a newbie gets to do a long deskpen or a top.
 
One more thought:

I was teaching a class on bowl turning with 2 guys one day, and one of them asked me how I transitioned across the bottom of the bowl... and I had no idea (I just did it).

During the next 5 minutes, I repeated it 2-3 more times, and he told me. The teacher learns too.

Steve
 
Odie,
You mentioned 78 as the age of your student.
I overlooked that before but somehow the number caught my eye in the little bit shown of each thread.

You need to assess the physical abilities of your students too.

I have found the the elderly and young children often lack range of motion and hand strength that we
use for basic turning.

Lacking hand strength they cannot pressure fit a box lid and get it off.

Lacking range of motion they cannot hollow a bowl on a long bed lathe reaching across the ways and pulling the handle to them.
They can often hollow bowl quite nicely on a short-bed lathe or a sliding headstock machine.

Of course many 78 year olds are in excellent shape and quite flexible. Others not so much!
Something else to look for.

al
 
hockenbery said:
Odie,
You mentioned 78 as the age of your student.
I overlooked that before but somehow the number caught my eye in the little bit shown of each thread.

You need to assess the physical abilities of your students too.

I have found the the elderly and young children often lack range of motion and hand strength that we
use for basic turning.

Lacking hand strength they cannot pressure fit a box lid and get it off.

Lacking range of motion they cannot hollow a bowl on a long bed lathe reaching across the ways and pulling the handle to them.
They can often hollow bowl quite nicely on a short-bed lathe or a sliding headstock machine.

Of course many 78 year olds are in excellent shape and quite flexible. Others not so much!
Something else to look for.

al
Click to expand...

Thanks Al......

Getting any comment related to his age is exactly why I mentioned it. I will keep your comments in mind, for sure. :D

ooc
 
Multiple Lathe Operators

Do you know of any guidelines for lathe placement in a shop where there are multiple turners working at the same time in relatively close quarters? Thanks t
hockenbery said:
Odie,

Teaching is rewarding and i learn a lot when teaching.

In my beginning bowl turning class I start the students on a carving mallet. A 5x5x10 or a 4x4x9
I get them used to the bowl gouge
I draw lines every half inch on one face of the blank perpendicular to the ways.
Have them point the bevel in the direction on of the line an cut straight in following the line
This is the bevel riding cut and the only one they need of the first few bowls.a
I have them rough shape the handle and the head of mallet with the bowl gouge and usually finish it with a spindle gouge.
I generally sharpen the tools for the first project.

The give them a sharpening lesson.

Second: a bowl from a disc 10" diameter 5 to 4" thick started on a screw chuck.
I generally teach cutting the tenon with a spindle gouge.
Hollowed in a chuck with a tenon.
Bevel king push cut for he whole bowl.

Reinforce the sharpening lesson

Third: bowl half a log cut round on the band saw turned between centers.
Teach grain balancing.
Just rough turned. I'll show the roughing cut with the bevel off the wood.
I also introduce the shear scrape

fourth: bowl is a half log cut round on the bandsaw. Turned to a wall thickness of about. 1/4"
Introduce the round nose scrapper. If the students are doing well it show them the Shear cut and slicing pull cuts

Fifth: project is a natural edge bowl from a half log 6" diameter 8-9 long with the ends rounded on the diameter.

This makes a nice three day workshop.


Have fun
Al
Click to expand...
 
Keep each lathe out of the "line of fire a/k/a Kill Zone" (3-4' wide extending at 90° to the axis of rotation centered on the piece being turned). Lathe work needs a safe working area that insures the operator can maintain the ability to move freely about the machine. I would be suspicious of less that 10-12' in all directions within a 270° arc of the headstock. If that conflicts with your space, find bigger space or reduce the number of machines.
 
Suzanne Kahn said:
Do you know of any guidelines for lathe placement in a shop where there are multiple turners working at the same time in relatively close quarters? Thanks t
Click to expand...


I like a horse shoe shape or oval with the lathes facing out wards and the grinders on either end.
The center area should be free of cords etc.
as a teacher I can move quickly to any place from which bad sounds are coming.
The students are least likely to interfere with each other.

Three lathes make a natural horseshoe.
A small workmate by each lathe is great for the students tools.

When space is an issue like it often is,
A straight line with the lathes at 40 degrees to the wall works nicely for 3-4 lathes
And takes less space.

Mark has valid points but there is a trade off. I don't want to run 50 feet to get to a student who is getting catches. Make the student work pieces small, control the lathe speeds, and danger from flying objects is greatly reduced.
The large spacing does not eliminate danger but does reduce it.

Also manage the number of students. 3-4 is a comfortable number for one teacher. 7-8 is an upper limit I like to avoid.
With competent assistants more are manageable.

Al
 
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