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Drive Centers

Roger Wiegand

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I drive 14-16" bowl blanks with this cup drive from Robust. As long as the rim makes good contact it seems to be fine, doesn't need to be driven in far at all. Unlike spur or steb drives that like to chew into the wood, requiring being driven well into the wood, it grips remarkably well with just reasonable pressure from the tailstock.
rtr-la-drset__14__83877.jpg
 
Joined
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@Marc Banka
I did buy this Nova center. I do have a question though. How far do the blades need to be into the wood to hold a blank securely, especially something like a 14" - 16" blank. I realize the tailstock is there to help support it but it would seem as if there is a minimum depth that the drive center blades need to be in the wood. I tried driving it in with 2 blades removed with the remaining blades in line with the grain, but couldn't get them into the wood more than maybe about a 1/4"; maybe less.
Turned quite a few pieces that size with the Nova Jumbo. I always use all 4 blades, never drive it in. Lock the spindle, rock the work, tighten TS, repeat. If the face is flat, maybe an 1/8” of each blade. If the face is angled one blade may get 1/4” deep. I constantly check the TS and tighten it up, and the blades work in deeper, particularly if there’s interrupted cuts.
 
Joined
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La Grange, IL
I drive 14-16" bowl blanks with this cup drive from Robust. As long as the rim makes good contact it seems to be fine, doesn't need to be driven in far at all. Unlike spur or steb drives that like to chew into the wood, requiring being driven well into the wood, it grips remarkably well with just reasonable pressure from the tailstock.
View attachment 49468
Looks like the ultimate safety center, no teeth at all.
Good to know it works.
 
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Turned quite a few pieces that size with the Nova Jumbo. I always use all 4 blades, never drive it in. Lock the spindle, rock the work, tighten TS, repeat. If the face is flat, maybe an 1/8” of each blade. If the face is angled one blade may get 1/4” deep. I constantly check the TS and tighten it up, and the blades work in deeper, particularly if there’s interrupted cuts.
Do you orient the blades at 0 degrees and 90 degrees to the grain or rotate it so the blades are all about 45 degrees to the grain direction?
 
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I like the method Ken described for sinking his drive in further. Might be useful for those really heavy blanks.
Otherwise, the 1/4” is about what I can get. Just like you, I remove two spurs and align the remaining with the grain. The piece is really supported by the center points at each end. Spurs mainly just for drive.
I’ve not had the spurs strip the wood, dig a hole with this drive.
 
Joined
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Honestly I don't really understand the need for pounding in drive centers all that much (Though on extremely hard woods, it would make a bit of sense) but seems to me a lot of times it is overkill - I use a steb center that fits into my scroll chuck, and what I like about it , is several points: 1) it teaches you to have a light touch (a catch can stop the wood while the steb keeps spinning - Have had no problems taking deep heavy roughing cuts as long as I maintain bevel contact) 2) you quickly learn when it is time to stop and sharpen (as the tool dulls, it becomes more grabby, similar to catching) 3) it gives a little element of safety (again, catches will stop the wood without damaging lathe, tool, etc) and it is QUICK (chuck the center into my chuck, rough out my bowl or spindle blank, cut tenon , then just unchuck the center, chuck up the tenon and away you go) and finally 4) - it makes you stop every so often and re-tighten tailstock live center (which you should be doing anyway, having a steb center just kinda forces the issue) So far, I have only once ever needed to hammer in a drive center (turning a really dense piece of exotic wood , steb center wouldn't even make a dent in it, so I had to remove chuck and use a MT2 drive center)
 
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Oct 30, 2022
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Onalaska, TX
I think it is odd that people are using plastic and steel hammers to drive morse taper shanks. Brass and copper hammers are made for just this purpose. They don't damage the taper and the shank does not hurt the hammer. In my shop I keep eight ounce, 16 ounce, two pound and four pound brass hammers. Dead blows don't get nearly as much use.
 
Joined
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Honestly I don't really understand the need for pounding in drive centers all that much (Though on extremely hard woods, it would make a bit of sense) but seems to me a lot of times it is overkill - I use a steb center that fits into my scroll chuck, and what I like about it , is several points: 1) it teaches you to have a light touch (a catch can stop the wood while the steb keeps spinning - Have had no problems taking deep heavy roughing cuts as long as I maintain bevel contact) 2) you quickly learn when it is time to stop and sharpen (as the tool dulls, it becomes more grabby, similar to catching) 3) it gives a little element of safety (again, catches will stop the wood without damaging lathe, tool, etc) and it is QUICK (chuck the center into my chuck, rough out my bowl or spindle blank, cut tenon , then just unchuck the center, chuck up the tenon and away you go) and finally 4) - it makes you stop every so often and re-tighten tailstock live center (which you should be doing anyway, having a steb center just kinda forces the issue) So far, I have only once ever needed to hammer in a drive center (turning a really dense piece of exotic wood , steb center wouldn't even make a dent in it, so I had to remove chuck and use a MT2 drive center)
Brian,

I guess you gave the reason I wouldn't use a steb center on large, heavy blanks. A significant catch will cause the center to cut a groove. If it was round to begin with it's probably not as likely to be a problem. I know you can just bring the tail center in tighter if that happens, but that only works a couple of times. I don't know about anyone else, but I think that is a risk. On smaller bowl blanks or spindles the steb center should work well. Anyway, I'm not perfect and the chance of stripping the center out is a real one for me.
 
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Brian,

I guess you gave the reason I wouldn't use a steb center on large, heavy blanks. A significant catch will cause the center to cut a groove. If it was round to begin with it's probably not as likely to be a problem. I know you can just bring the tail center in tighter if that happens, but that only works a couple of times. I don't know about anyone else, but I think that is a risk. On smaller bowl blanks or spindles the steb center should work well. Anyway, I'm not perfect and the chance of stripping the center out is a real one for me.
Yeah that is one of the cases I do understand, and as I mentioned, teaches you to have a light touch to avoid catches (me, bringing a rough, very heavy chainsawed green blank of maple about 5 inch thick and just barely clearing the bedways out of balance) I was able to get that blank almost rounded and nearly in balance before I got in too much hurry and jammed my 5/8 bowl gouge into air... after that I had to just nibble (took forever, even at the 650 rpm minimum speed of HF Reeves drive) to make a tenon, and didn't get the big blank as round as I'd have liked, but got tenon done and reversed the blank, roughed out well after that. I could have stopped, and taken out the center and chuck and stuck a spur drive in, but I felt I was close enough, and in no big rush (and I was feeling lazy) so I didn't bother... I suppose one of the possible issues with big bowl blanks (I'd probably not do steb center on anything bigger than perhaps a 10 x 4 inch green wood blank, once I do get a lathe with bigger swing that a 12x36) would be since the center pin and teeth are so relatively short if you don't have a good flat surface for it to bite into (and enough meat to get tailstock up tight) a big heavy out of balance blank could pretty easily slip sideways and go flying...
 
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Jan 28, 2022
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I made this up. It started life as a screw chuck with removable centre screws. 4 screw holes to use as a face plate. I tapped two opposing holes and used sharpened bolts. M33 on to headstockdrive.JPG
 
Joined
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Eugene, OR
If at all possible, whenever I turn spindles, I prefer a chuck mount. I do occasionally mount between centers and then turn a tenon for the chuck mount. It seems that very often, the drive centers work their ways loose, in part because I do heavy roughing....

robo hippy
 
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
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Lexington, KY
If at all possible, whenever I turn spindles, I prefer a chuck mount. I do occasionally mount between centers and then turn a tenon for the chuck mount. It seems that very often, the drive centers work their ways loose, in part because I do heavy roughing....
I almost always use a chuck for spindle turning, especially for the many long skinny ones I do.
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2017
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My questions were generated by experiences with bowl and hollow form turning. The only "spindle" type turing I've done has be pens, which has its own requirements and holding hardware. Bowls, especially large bowls, have significant holding requirements, at least until the blank is essentially round. After a tenon or recess is available, there are no issues (unless the tenon or recess isn't formed properly). As for hollow forms, mine are generally not that large so I really don't have quite the same issues....Just some background on why I asked about drive centers to begin with.

I have had quite a bit of success recently using the standard 4-pronged drive center, making sure that I secure the tailstock well, and "wiggling" the blank repetitively until it just doesn't budge. Plus, I've never had a large blank come off the lathe because, if I'm not really comfortable with how it's secured, I don't proceed until I fix that.

I do like the concept of the Nova 4-blade center that threads onto the headstock. It seems to be a good way to make sure that the blank is attached solidlly. I only have tried it once and it was little difficult to get the blades into the wood more than about 1/8" plus.

Overall, I may just be overly concerned. Since I've never had any large pieces come off, I must be doing something right. It's an interesting bunch of responses. It just shows that, with turning, there are many ways to get the same desired result.
 
Joined
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I don’t think the drive centers I use are any more than 1/8” or at most 3/16” deep into the wood - regardless of whether I’m using a four blade (typically for spindle blanks only), two blade or even the OneWay Big Bite (I use it a lot for blanks as large as 20”). Seldom had any problems driving the wood through roughing out stages. I have an elio drive that sees a little use on the really odd shaped pieces, and the pins are at about the same depth.
Some time spent getting the blank is pretty well balanced before starting the lathe removes a lot of the stress or resistance to initial movement that can stress the blades or pins ability to drive the blank securely until it gets a little rounder.

As I get a little older (74 this year) I find that if I need to drive anything in any deeper means I probably shouldn’t be turning it to begin with. A little finess can often be more powerful than a ton of force.
 
Joined
Oct 23, 2015
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Springdale, Arkansas
With a rough cut bowl blank using a 4 prong drive the only way to get more than one prong in the wood is to pound it in. With a 2 prong drive you can always get a bite with both prongs without pounding. With something like the Oneway Big Bite the spurs are big and spread apart a little more for more traction. Pounding not required. As a bonus when the tenon is done all you have to do is open the chuck, remove the spur, and reverse the bowl.
 
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It’s 2 1/4” across the spurs. I haven’t sharpened them, haven’t had the need, yet. Looks easy though since they come out.
This drive threads onto a 1 1/4 x 8 spindle, so even I wouldn’t seat it as I described above! That would put huge loads on your spindle and bearings. For this drive, I use the standard ‘on the floor with a mallet. Just be aware that the body is aluminum, so I use a wood block for cushioning.

My method, for taper seated drive centers only, puts no load on the spindle or bearings. The energy is passed through all of that, and directly to the point where the drive meets the wood.

My disclaimer: We should all do what we feel best for us. I’m just giving a different option, which has been working quite well for me.View attachment 49058
I wanted this but never realized how massive it is until I ordered it. It's awesome regardless. Although it's entertaining to whip it out when friends stop by the shop.
 
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It is large and I have come to realize it really is made for large blanks, but that is good for me since I haven't touched my large ones. I think this center will work well for those. That's not to say there aren't other methods that work well. I think we all just have to use what we feel comfortable and safe using.
 
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For small bowls and spindles I like a cup center. For bigger bowls I've had good results with the stub center. But if it's too beefy of a blank I'll go woodworm or faceplate but that's pretty rare.
 
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My normal manner of holding larger blanks, like this 6" thick by 17" D piece, and bigger, is to use a faceplate, it does not take long (no production turner here) and it is safe and stable, not tailstock and live centers in the way.

I turn the outside and cut a recess ( I don't like tenons making for thicker bottoms, and more likely to split).

I have turned a lot of bowls that way and I still like to do it this way, unless it is some small thing I turn on my small lathes.

Here is a large Sycamore blank with the loose center from the 5" faceplate placed in the center of the blank, the faceplate slides over that (no seeking) and the 1" screws there to fasten it to the wood.

Large Sycamore blank.jpg

And here it is spinning to hollow out the blank.
spinning to hollow turn it .jpg
 
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My normal manner of holding larger blanks, like this 6" thick by 17" D piece, and bigger, is to use a faceplate, it does not take long (no production turner here) and it is safe and stable, not tailstock and live centers in the way.

I turn the outside and cut a recess ( I don't like tenons making for thicker bottoms, and more likely to split).

I have turned a lot of bowls that way and I still like to do it this way, unless it is some small thing I turn on my small lathes.

Here is a large Sycamore blank with the loose center from the 5" faceplate placed in the center of the blank, the faceplate slides over that (no seeking) and the 1" screws there to fasten it to the wood.

View attachment 49645

And here it is spinning to hollow out the blank.
View attachment 49646
I have used both tenons and recesses but the tenons really don’t appear to require thicker bottoms or waste wood. Whether it’s a tenon or recess the same amount of wood is required in the bottom. It’s just easier to remove a tenon than a recess when making a flat bottomed bowl.

Also I don’t understand why a recess is less likely to split as your post implies. If anything a tenon holds the bottom together while a recess puts stress outward on the fibers.
 
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I have used both tenons and recesses but the tenons really don’t appear to require thicker bottoms or waste wood. Whether it’s a tenon or recess the same amount of wood is required in the bottom. It’s just easier to remove a tenon than a recess when making a flat bottomed bowl.

Also I don’t understand why a recess is less likely to split as your post implies. If anything a tenon holds the bottom together while a recess puts stress outward on the fibers.
Randy, yes I have argued about the same amount of wood used in either tenon or recess and placed this drawing, where you take either the center part away and you have a recess, or take the top orange part away and you have a tenon, then take the lower orange part away and tenon or recess are gone, as some claimed that you would need more wood or wasted more wood with a recess, and that is just not true normally.

Tenon or recess.jpg

As for the splitting, that happens when drying the bowl with the thicker wood of the tenon and the sharp corners, the tenon can also break off sometimes, of course the same can happen with the recess if ham-fisted the chuck so tight it forces the wood apart, I haven't had this happen yet in my 60 plus years of turning, but I have had a few bowls split when I did use a tenon, though normally I pretty well use a recess 1thumb.gif
 
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Randy, yes I have argued about the same amount of wood used in either tenon or recess and placed this drawing, where you take either the center part away and you have a recess, or take the top orange part away and you have a tenon, then take the lower orange part away and tenon or recess are gone, as some claimed that you would need more wood or wasted more wood with a recess, and that is just not true normally.

View attachment 49653

As for the splitting, that happens when drying the bowl with the thicker wood of the tenon and the sharp corners, the tenon can also break off sometimes, of course the same can happen with the recess if ham-fisted the chuck so tight it forces the wood apart, I haven't had this happen yet in my 60 plus years of turning, but I have had a few bowls split when I did use a tenon, though normally I pretty well use a recess View attachment 49654
I've had the reverse happen, a recess break apart along the grain but, of course, while I've been a woodworker for almost 50 years, I've only been a turner for about 5.
 
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Randy, yes I have argued about the same amount of wood used in either tenon or recess and placed this drawing, where you take either the center part away and you have a recess, or take the top orange part away and you have a tenon, then take the lower orange part away and tenon or recess are gone, as some claimed that you would need more wood or wasted more wood with a recess, and that is just not true normally.

View attachment 49653

As for the splitting, that happens when drying the bowl with the thicker wood of the tenon and the sharp corners, the tenon can also break off sometimes, of course the same can happen with the recess if ham-fisted the chuck so tight it forces the wood apart, I haven't had this happen yet in my 60 plus years of turning, but I have had a few bowls split when I did use a tenon, though normally I pretty well use a recess View attachment 49654
A picture being worth a thousand words, and all that. I don’t see the need to be required to have any amount of wood dedicated as overhead. With the exception of round bottom bowls, I use a tenon, which I don’t ever remove. The last step is converting it to a foot using the entire height of the blank-minus truing.

The outer lines are my rough turned, the shaded areas are the finished bowl. (In my drawing the tenon is smaller in diameter than I use) The bottom of the foot, bottom of working tenon and bottom of blank are really close, one to the other. The thickness at the base is the same as the walls, both when roughing and finishing.FA976566-804D-41EE-AFBE-5FCEFD97AB91.jpeg
 
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I’m sure that’s true for the design of a bowl with a foot but I tend not to put a foot on most bowls because I personally am not a fan of the look. Generally I remove the tenon or recess, especially with hollow forms.
 
Joined
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I drive 14-16" bowl blanks with this cup drive from Robust. As long as the rim makes good contact it seems to be fine, doesn't need to be driven in far at all. Unlike spur or steb drives that like to chew into the wood, requiring being driven well into the wood, it grips remarkably well with just reasonable pressure from the tailstock.
I use the Robust cup center for almost everything too. You have to keep the tailstock pretty tight, but it is impossible to have a catch with this type of drive center.
 
Joined
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Wrentham, MA
I drive 14-16" bowl blanks with this cup drive from Robust. As long as the rim makes good contact it seems to be fine, doesn't need to be driven in far at all. Unlike spur or steb drives that like to chew into the wood, requiring being driven well into the wood, it grips remarkably well with just reasonable pressure from the tailstock.

Roger and Paul -
How easy do you find it to remove the bowl center from the cup center to go back to spindle turning? I have this same center and it is a royal pain to remove. I spoke with Brent about it and the solution seems to be to use levers. He offered to have me ship it to him for their review, but I figured I'd ask others who are using this center.
 
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Some time after my post I bought the Elio Drives in 3 sizes. After using all of my drive centers, I think the Elio Drives are better at holding uneven blanks. They would work on almost any blank though. Since they have three points of contact and the 2 threaded points on the edges can be sunk into the wood, the result is a very secure hold.
 
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