Dust extraction

[Guy Dibble]

Setting up my lathe in a new shop and have an existing dust extractor for a planer /thicknessor.. Could anyone post pictures of extraction around a lathe to give me ideas of the best set up.
Any do's and don'ts?

TIA

Guy

 

[Steve Nix]

In the process of redesigning and air conditioning my shop so I’m interested in others pi’s and comments. This is my existing setup.

 

[John K Jordan]

Guy,

I use a simple nozzle from Woodcraft behind the lathe. This pulls in a huge amount of dust. The thing is mounted on a Noga style adjustable arm made for dial indicator gauges and such in the machine shop. But it's useless without a strong suction and good filtering.

My shop pickups are connected to an extremely powerful 5hp Clearvue cyclone at the other end of the shop connected by ducts in the ceiling. The suction is extremely powerful so keep your cat away. When sanding a spindle maybe 20" long I've watched fine dust from the far end travel down along the spindle to be pulled into the nozzle.



I think most importantly, I NEVER power sand with rotating disks on an angle drill . I don't like what it does to the wood and I REALLY don't like the clouds of dust it throws in the air. IMO there are better ways to work. I have developed methods of work which eliminate the need for such sanding. After smoothing the work by other means, I do most sanding by hand, off the lathe. That story is too long for one post.

I use a Dylos air quality monitor to check what actually gets into the air.

I built a sound-insulated closet for the the cyclone and 5hp air compressor since both are LOUD.
The duct work runs above the ceiling with drops at the machines.

I also have dust pickups at the bandsaw, drum sander, and disk/belt sanders. There is a blast gate at each machine I open and close manually as needed.

Even with all this, I wear a good industrial respirator when making dust that might not be picked up completely.
It will fit under a face shield helmet if I'm turning something that could be hazardous.


A circulating air cleaner like the Jet mounted on the ceiling or wall can help remove fine residual dust floating in the room.

You can use the forum search feature to find more. Much has been written on the subject.

JKJ

 

[Steve Tiedman]

From me a few months back, part 1 and 2. It has been working very well. The point- collect as much as possible at the source.

S

Thread 'Richard Raffan's modest shop, with dust collection details'

Nov 29, 2024

I didn't see this as a previous thread. Here is a video from a couple years ago of Richard Raffan giving a tour through his small shop, now based around a smaller lathe, a Vicmarc VL150 (12" swing). (I'll presume in the years since his old VHS tape videos that he still used the big VL300 lathe.) He shows how a very complete, yet dedicated turning operation can be established in a small space, something resembling a bedroom in an average house.

View: https://youtu.be/twuFE1-6qB0?


If the dust collection catches your attention, here is the same setup...

• Steve Tiedman
• Replies: 46
• Forum: Woodturning Discussion Forum

• 

S

Thread 'Raffan's dust hood part 2, my version'

Dec 1, 2024

As I started in this thread (with 2 videos) https://www.aawforum.org/community/...dest-shop-with-dust-collection-details.23325/ which wandered and meandered with a lot of good information, here is the final result of my version of the Richard Raffan-inspired dust hood I built for my Oneway 1224.

Raffan, nor Tomislav Tomasic in his video, had no plans to build it. It's easy to see that their setups are pretty casual in design, as is mine. Will my plastic bowl collect more effectively than Raffan's angle cut pipe? I don't know, but my bowl hood was my...

• Steve Tiedman
• Replies: 21
• Forum: Woodturning Discussion Forum

• 

 

[robo hippy]

An old video, but as I say, I can sand walnut for 6 hours and no dust on my glasses or up my nose, and no need for a dust mask. You can buy sheets of the white plastic, up to 5 by 10 foot and make your own. I used some 1/4 inch thick stuff and it was a bit difficult to bend. It does come in many thicknesses, maybe a group project. I need to make one that stays in place for my bowl turning rather than this model which is only for sanding....

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZsVc7qVx7A


robo hippy

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Robo, that does look quite effective. I'd think with a sturdy frame that even quite thin plastic sheet would work. Maybe foam core board from a craft store?

The key point with Robo's, Raffan's, and similar is that a containment chamber is being created right behind the dust source, with the only opening into the chamber being right at the dust source. Dust is naturally thrown into it and it can't escape. In my limited experience with it (a modified version of Raffan's), and Robo's long experience with it, it shows to be far more effective than simply having a hose with some sort of smaller funnel hood on the end, and I've spent a long time using those other versions.

 

[Neil S]

I use a Dylos air quality monitor to check what actually gets into the air.
View attachment 72875

My best advice is to get a dust particle counter and note the levels of fine PM2.5 levels you are getting in your workshop. That way you will know how effective your DE system is working. There are economy models available from IKEA and off eBay that do the job well enough for our purposes.

VINDSTYRKA air quality sensor, smart - IKEA

VINDSTYRKA air quality sensor, smart Want to know more about the air you breathe at home? This easy-to-use air quality sensor gives you all the information you need. You can also make it a part of your smart home for more great functions.

www.ikea.com

9-in-1 Air Quality Monitor CO2/PM2.5/TVOC/HCHO Detector LED Digital Display | eBay

TVOC Detection Ranges: 0-2.0mg/m3. HCHO Detection Ranges: 0-0.6mg/m3. PM2.5 Detection Ranges: 0-1000ug/m3. PM2.5 Detection Accuracy: 1ug/m3. Suitable For A Variety Of Indoor And Outdoor Activities, And Easy To Carry When Traveling.

www.ebay.com

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

This is my setup. The DC is in the attic right now but will not be in new shop. I have a Dust Deputy 5 inch to catch fines and a home made cyclone to catch the bigger stuff. I made a hood for the lathe collection point and mounted it on an adjustable arm.

 

[John K Jordan]

My best advice is to get a dust particle counter and note the levels of fine PM2.5 levels you are getting in your workshop. That way you will know how effective your DE system is working. There are economy models available

Yes, those are a LOT cheaper than the Dylos.

I can vouch for their effectiveness. When the cheap monitors became available I bought one to evaluate. Somewhere I got the conversion info to check the cheap one against the Dylos and they both reported nearly identical levels.

I run the cheap one most of the time and the Dylos on occasion. The display is very colorful too!

 

[Brian Nowak-Thompson]

I've studied the effectiveness of a box fan with a MERV 8 filter on it using a Dylos meter. First of all, the Dylos meters only measure the number of particles and bin them based on sizes. The health studies however use units of mg/m^3 for dust exposure, and there is no good simple way to convert between them. Second, when using the dylos meter I found that sanding doesn't create as many particles in the room air as burning lines or frying bacon or a puffy woodstove. I also found that the box fan and filter can clear the shop air in a matter of minutes and keeps sanding dust from floating everywhere. I'm not saying that it makes other protections unnecessary, but for the simplicity and money everyone can dramatically reduce their dust exposure.
I'm done using my Dylos meter if anyone wants to make me and offer for it.

 

[John K Jordan]

I also found that the box fan and filter can clear the shop air in a matter of minutes and keeps sanding dust from floating everywhere.

A good friend said he uses the ultimate in dust protection - he puts a large fan in front of a hole in the wall behind the lathe - blows all the chips and dust outside! Keeps trying to talk me into it. But he only turns in spring and fall!

 

[Steve Tiedman]

I've studied the effectiveness of a box fan with a MERV 8 filter on it using a Dylos meter. First of all, the Dylos meters only measure the number of particles and bin them based on sizes. The health studies however use units of mg/m^3 for dust exposure, and there is no good simple way to convert between them. Second, when using the dylos meter I found that sanding doesn't create as many particles in the room air as burning lines or frying bacon or a puffy woodstove. I also found that the box fan and filter can clear the shop air in a matter of minutes and keeps sanding dust from floating everywhere. I'm not saying that it makes other protections unnecessary, but for the simplicity and money everyone can dramatically reduce their dust exposure.
I'm done using my Dylos meter if anyone wants to make me and offer for it.

The first 7 or 8 years I turned this setup sat right behind the headstock. Worked quite well. At the end of a session, I used a shop vac with a brush head to gently pull off the dust from the filter.

Merv number is behind the duct tape, but it is a step up from a basic pleated filter. I use this now when I'm hand sanding something on my workbench. I set the fan speed for how far away I am from the dust source.

 

[BobCoates]

I saw grizzly has a new dust collector brand that states .3 micron filter, motor driven filter cleaner. Looks impressive but no reviews yet.

2 HP Two-Stage Quiet Series Cyclone Dust Collector - Grizzly Industrial, Inc.

<h1>G0976 2 HP Two-Stage GROWL-TECH™ Cyclone Dust Collector - Quiet Series®</h1> <h2>Improve the quality of your shop environment with this cyclone dust collector.</h2> <p>The G0976 2 HP Two-Stage Cyclone Dust Collector is ready to filter out harmful woodworking debris! The cyclonic...

www.grizzly.com

No connection to Grizzly.

 

[Lennart Delin]

This works well for me. A rounded inlet and a shielding to prevent drawing in air from behind.

 

[Neil S]

This works well for me. A rounded inlet and a shielding to prevent drawing in air from behind.View attachment 73032

Lennart

You have close to the ideal bell mouth inlet opening on you dust hood there. Research on airflow dynamics has shown what is optimal for intakes on carburettors and the like...

How to optimise the inlet bell mouth

Next to the design of an exhaust system and its gas dynamics, the induction system of the engine is equally as important. To ensure that the

www.goodfabs.com

 

[Lennart Delin]

Lennart

You have close to the ideal bell mouth inlet opening on you dust hood there. Research on airflow dynamics has shown what is optimal for intakes on carburettors and the like...

How to optimise the inlet bell mouth

Next to the design of an exhaust system and its gas dynamics, the induction system of the engine is equally as important. To ensure that the

www.goodfabs.com

Yes, I have spent a lot of time studying fluid dynamics, part of being a chemical engineer.

 

[Greg Carles]

Hers is my dust collection set up on my new Powermatic 3520C.
it is fully adjustable up and down and side to side using incra T-track and some knobs.

 

[Steve Tiedman]

Ha! LOVE the pencil holder! I could put those every 5' around my little shop and still not be able to find one when I need one.

 

[David Aion]

This is my setup. The DC is in the attic right now but will not be in new shop. I have a Dust Deputy 5 inch to catch fines and a home made cyclone to catch the bigger stuff. I made a hood for the lathe collection point and mounted it on an adjustable arm.
View attachment 72899

Where did you get the adjustable arm?

 

[John K Jordan]

Ha! LOVE the pencil holder! I could put those every 5' around my little shop and still not be able to find one when I need one.

Amen! Imagine working at the lathe without a pencil!

Since I like my lathe against the wall, in addition to a cup for various pencils on the small shelf, I use a different method to keep them at hand - magnets. Use them for small, often reached-for tools too, measuring tapes, rulers...

Some pencils, especially mechanical pencils with steel clips, will stick to a magnet. For others, I wrap a couple of turns of soft iron "bailing" wire.
When a Sharpie runs low on ink, I simply pull off the little circle of wire and slide it on a fresh Sharpie.

BTW, the I added the vertical plywood facing on the small shelf for two reasons: one, to hide the outlets and wires for lights, second, for a place to hold magnets! I use the type of magnets that are made to be held with a wood screw. For a heavy item, stronger magnets are available held by two small wood screws.

On the lathe itself, magnets without screws work. If a magnet is strong enough to hold what I want but weak enough to slide around a bit, I've been known to use a dab of epoxy.

I use magnets for a variety of other tools at the lathe - awls, screw drivers, hex keys, center punches, gimlets, etc.

And at the bandsaw:


Another use for a magnet: keep a shiny one mounted somewhere in your shop. If using a CBN wheel, note how it will collect extremely fine black steel dust that floats through the air. Unless breathing fine steel dust is good for the lungs, it's a reminder to use a respirator for sharpening too.
The dust floats all around the shop - I've found magnets on the bandsaw covered with steel dust, 10' away on the side facing away from the grinders. With the room lights turned off and a single bright directed light it's easy to see fine steel particles floating through the air.

JKJ

 

[Neil S]

Another use for a magnet: keep a shiny one mounted somewhere in your shop. If using a CBN wheel, note how it will collect extremely fine black steel dust that floats through the air. Unless breathing fine steel dust is good for the lungs, it's a reminder to use a respirator for sharpening too.
The dust floats all around the shop - I've found magnets on the bandsaw covered with steel dust, 10' away on the side facing away from the grinders. With the room lights turned off and a single bright directed light it's easy to see fine steel particles floating through the air.

A particle counter is also a good way for monitoring the level of airborne metal dust from grinding, which can remain airborne for many minutes after you stop grinding. Here is a graph of the levels in my workshop 2m away from my grinder (without extraction going) after refreshing the edge on four gouges...

​

400-600/m² at PM2.5 are very high numbers for the first 45seconds after turning off the grinder. With the metal dust extraction going on my grinder I rarely get above about 6-8/m² at PM2.5. The hood is connected to a vacuum unit that turns on when the grinder is turned on and runs for 20secs after it is turned off.

​

 

[Gerald Lawrence]

Where did you get the adjustable arm?

A fried retired from cSpire . It was a display arm. If you need mounts look on Amazon for RAM. very versatile products.

 

[Lennart Delin]

A particle counter is also a good way for monitoring the level of airborne metal dust from grinding, which can remain airborne for many minutes after you stop grinding. Here is a graph of the levels in my workshop 2m away from my grinder (without extraction going) after refreshing the edge on four gouges...

View attachment 73311​

400-600/m² at PM2.5 are very high numbers for the first 45seconds after turning off the grinder. With the metal dust extraction going on my grinder I rarely get above about 6-8/m² at PM2.5. The hood is connected to a vacuum unit that turns on when the grinder is turned on and runs for 20secs after it is turned off.

View attachment 73312
​

There are different measures for air quality, ambient air and the air that you inhale at your workplace. For the USA, the permissible exposure limit (PEL) for wood dust is set at 5 mg/m³ for total dust and 1 mg/m³ for respirable dust. These values are established by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) and represent the highest allowed average concentration of wood dust in the air over an 8-hour workday.

For ambient air in the USA, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has set the National Ambient Air Quality Standards (NAAQS) for particulate matter (PM) to protect public health. Here are the levels for good air quality:

• PM2.5 (Fine Particulate Matter):
  
  • Annual Average: 12 micrograms per cubic meter (µg/m³)
  • 24-Hour Average: 35 µg/m³
• PM10 (Coarse Particulate Matter):
  
  • 24-Hour Average: 150 µg/m³

These standards are designed to protect public health, including the health of sensitive populations such as children, the elderly, and individuals with respiratory or cardiovascular conditions.
The permissible exposure limit (PEL) for wood dust is thus very much higher than the general levels for good air quality. Europe has similar values.

 

[Lennart Delin]

A short video showing my dust extraction when power sanding.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3miOOtxleLQ

 

[Steve Tiedman]

What is unique about CBN wheels discharging airborne metal dust in comparison to traditional aluminum oxide (and by extension, silicon carbide and any other style) "stone" wheels? How do they compare in this regard?
-------------

I see videos, and I've seen in person with me or others, where dressing stone wheels kicks up quite a cloud of stone particulate. My Baldor grinder has dust ports, and I keep a small shop vac dedicated to the grinder, turning it on when I not only dress a stone wheel, but grind on either my CBN or the stone wheel. And... I've discovered it's not enough using the rear dust port. I've taken to holding a second shop vac hose right below the tool being ground and below the wheel dresser. (Being mindful of sparks going down a vac normally used to collect wood dust. I actually jam a second hose onto the first, and leave an extra bend or two in the hoses, to assure any sparks have gone cold down their trip of 12' of vac hose.) Baldor makes a dedicated grinder vac, and it ain't no home center shop vac!

Makes one think that a woodworking shop user needs to have a respirator on their face from before entering the shop until after leaving, and never take it off in between. Airborne wood and metal dust that settles in the shop is just as easily stirred up just by me being in the shop. And then there are the folks who insist on "cleaning" stuff in the shop with compressed air...

 

[Neil S]

The permissible exposure limit (PEL) for wood dust is thus very much higher than the general levels for good air quality. Europe has similar values.

Plus, many woods are carcinogenic, especially hardwoods of which we have a lot down here, and the exposure levels for those under OH&S regulations here in Australia are set at much more stringent levels...

Table 1: The current Australian occupational exposure standard

Carcinogen	8hr TWA (Time weighted average)	15 mins STEL (Short term exposure limit)
Hardwood	1 mg/m 3
Softwood	5 mg/m 3	10 mg/m 3
Formaldehyde	1 ppm or 1.2 mg/m 3	2 ppm or 2.5 mg/m 3

 

[Neil S]

Makes one think that a woodworking shop user needs to have a respirator on their face from before entering the shop until after leaving, and never take it off in between. Airborne wood and metal dust that settles in the shop is just as easily stirred up just by me being in the shop. And then there are the folks who insist on "cleaning" stuff in the shop with compressed air...

That is exactly what I do! If you have a particle counter in your workshop you don't need much convincing of the value of doing so.

And, I'd never have a compressor inside my workshop for the obvious reasons.