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Dye Coming Through

Dave Fritz

Dave Fritz

Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
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Location
Montfort, Wisconsin
Dye.jpg I'm working with Artesian Dye from Craft Supply on a cherry bowl. At first I thought I'd spattered dye on the inside of the bowl, now it appears to have gone up through the end grain. ( I think) This is my first attempt and I plan on using white liming wax on the blue and hopefully an Polymerized Tung oil finish when the dye and wax have really dried. Appreciate any thoughts you may have on my project.
 
That dye has a 5% shellac binder. Put the dye on in thin coats (allow to dry in between) and it will seal and block the “straws”. Adding a bit more shellac to the dye will help it seal more quickly. This technique wont work for a thin wall, but for the wall in the pic it will.
 
After my first time with results like yours, I have always use sanding sealer (Zinsser dewaxed shellac) first on both the inside and outside before applying dye. It blocks the dye from coming through “most” of the time. I use Chestnut stain (similar to Artisan) and Transtint. The molecules in these dyes are so small it is unlikely to apply them to bare wood without bleed through. Of course the thickness and wood type play into the results.
 
Regardless of the bleeding, I would suggest that before you add the liming wax, you should coat your bowl in shellac/lacquer. And that said, not be a downer, the liming wax may or may not have that great of an effect on Cherry. The pores are relatively dense and small.
 
William Rogers said:
After my first time with results like yours, I have always use sanding sealer (Zinsser dewaxed shellac) first on both the inside and outside before applying dye. It blocks the dye from coming through “most” of the time. I use Chestnut stain (similar to Artisan) and Transtint. The molecules in these dyes are so small it is unlikely to apply them to bare wood without bleed through. Of course the thickness and wood type play into the results.
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I agree with William. I use two coats of shellac, sanded back after both. This helps but may not prevent the wicking. I had the same problem with acrylic paint wicking through. I didn't predict it would wick through but it did.
When this happened to me the first time, my "save" was to choose a dark stain for the inside of the bowl that camouflaged the paint spots on the inside. It was better than loosing the bowl and is now one of my favourites.
 
I personally wouldn't use Tung oil (or any other oil) on top of the stain because it would change the color and make it murky looking and possibly cause further bleeding.

Oils are penetrating finishes so it's not a good finish to use on wood that has been sealed.

Chestnut stain contains about 5% shellac. I don't think that the Artisan stains contain any shellac.
 
Do you thin the shellac or use it full strength? I'm surprised, I'm able to turn away the color that came through. I'll post a photo of the piece when I'm done with it. I used a brush to apply the dye. Until my wife gave me a proper brush, I was making a real mess of things. I first textured the piece with the Sorby spiraling tool, added blue color, the white liming wax ala Jeff Hornung. It's still messy but I'm learning.
 
Dave Fritz said:
Do you thin the shellac or use it full strength? I'm surprised, I'm able to turn away the color that came through. I'll post a photo of the piece when I'm done with it. I used a brush to apply the dye. Until my wife gave me a proper brush, I was making a real mess of things. I first textured the piece with the Sorby spiraling tool, added blue color, the white liming wax ala Jeff Hornung. It's still messy but I'm learning.
Click to expand...
Shellac concentration is expressed in pounds . That is #pounds/per gallon solvent (alcohol). For sealing 1# is sufficient. I think the canned Bullseye is 2# and to make that 1# you would add the same volume of alcohol. I use flakes and make my stock at 3#. Also remember that shellac is universal and can be applied over any finish PLUS any finish can be applied over it.
 
This is a great discussion. Thanks to everyone.
I believe Jimmy Clewes is an advocate of a dilute shellac as a grain-raise/ pore sealer. I believe a video showed him sanding it back after one coat, doing a 2nd coat and sanding back again. Then on to a penetrating oil.
I would be happy to hear anyone elses experiences/ comments/ wisdom.
 
I use the Zinsser Seal Coat (de-waxed shellac) most of the time straight from the can, not sure what cut it is. Then sand back before applyingg dye.

@Dave Fritz I’m not sure I understand how you turn away the color that came through. If the color has bleed through from the outside of a bowl to the inside then it will be the full thickness of the bowl at that location.
 
William, I totally agree. I suspect my first impression of paint spatter was correct. I use Zinsser Seal Coat premixed when I use shellac. I'll have to watch Jimmy Clewes again. I have his DVD.
 
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