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DYI metallurgy

Paul Gilbert

Paul Gilbert

Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
83
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18
Location
Allen, TX
My niece and grand nephew fervently wanted a chess set turned from a felled tree on their lot and I foolishly said, "I'll show you how to do it, but won't do it for you". Well, I have given up on tutoring the fine art of using a spindle and detail gouge. I membered my Dad's frustration with me and a skew as a young lad ,and so, as he did I retreated to scrapers. As a card holding member of the "Just one more tool away from greatness" club I concluded that I had no negative rake scrapers of merit other than skews. So, I went looking for M42 square fly cutters. They only ones I found came in lengths of 4" or less, but a bought a 5 pack. I didn't like the hardware to mount them into a handle and so downgraded to M2 square bar. Cart before the horse, I looked into tempering. Now I know why woodturning tool companies charge what they do, when the raw blanks are real cheap.

Now the question: Before I turn a bunch of handles, should I just buy some high carbon steel and make scrapers and harden them, or will unhardened M2 or M42 be superior? Understand the drill. While sitting on a stool: Handle higher/lower, tool rest higher/lower, cut down hill - etc. We are not talking production turning here and time at the grinder only subtracts from my stool time. However, I like adding to my collection quality tools and so when the chess set is finished I would like to have something that I could really use.

Your advice, please
 
M2 & M42 stock is hardened and tempered. Just grind the desired shape on the end. For nrs, I use 35 deg bevel on each side (70 deg included), but anything from ~25-40 deg per side works, or you can have unequal angles, both need to add to less than 80 deg.
 
I agree with the others. Although prehardened HSS can be hard to grind for certain shapes. There isnt a huge difference in how long the burr lasts on HSS vs hardened carbon steel. For edge holding HSS is much better but your just dealing with the burr on scrapers.
 
When reading about hardening of HSS I read one article that said that they were supplied in their soft state to facilitate the forming of tools. I bought the blanks on line, and there is no mention of whether they are hardened or not. I hope that I got hardened stuff. When I actually put it to work, I guess I will find out what I bought.

I am old enough that I should have learned not to plunge into something and then do the necessary research later. I just keep relearning that cart/horse thing over and over again.

I ground the NRS's at 40 - 25 to give an included angle of 65 degrees. I got tired of fiddling with my Wolverine flat tool rest and bought a Kodiak tool rest. With a bit of adjustment to the installed slide clamps I have the Kodiak adjusted so that the angle markings are accurate. I am loving the new tool rest.
 
Well, if you like to do the hardening and tempering process, then go for it. For me, I could have been a black smith in another life line. When I want M42HSS blanks, I go straight to D Way. That way, I don't have to mess with it.

robo hippy
 
Paul Gilbert said:
When reading about hardening of HSS I read one article that said that they were supplied in their soft state to facilitate the forming of tools. I bought the blanks on line, and there is no mention of whether they are hardened or not. I hope that I got hardened stuff. When I actually put it to work, I guess I will find out what I bought.
Click to expand...
Typically an Rc hardness value will be included in the ad, over 60 for m2 or m42, demonstrating the blanks are fully processed. The material may be supplied in an unprocessed state to companies that make tools but typically material supplied at the consumer level will be fully processed. The processing of soft hss is not something hobbyists do. Carbon tool steel yes, hss no.

Take a file to a corner, if it skates its hardened, if it bites and cuts it is not.
 
Paul Gilbert said:
When reading about hardening of HSS I read one article that said that they were supplied in their soft state to facilitate the forming of tools. I bought the blanks on line, and there is no mention of whether they are hardened or not. I hope that I got hardened stuff. When I actually put it to work, I guess I will find out what I bought.

I am old enough that I should have learned not to plunge into something and then do the necessary research later. I just keep relearning that cart/horse thing over and over again.

I ground the NRS's at 40 - 25 to give an included angle of 65 degrees. I got tired of fiddling with my Wolverine flat tool rest and bought a Kodiak tool rest. With a bit of adjustment to the installed slide clamps I have the Kodiak adjusted so that the angle markings are accurate. I am loving the new tool rest.
Click to expand...
 
I modified my Kodiak rest so it has the good features of the Roborest as well as the Kodiak. I drilled 1/8" holes every 5 degrees that didnt have a notch. I use a 1/8" allen wrench to set the hole positions. I keep a small rare earth magnet attached to hold the Allen.
 

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I buy HSS blanks on Amazon in stock sizes and grind them to different shapes for NR scrapers. Not expensive and hold an edge just fine. For handles I make sleeves they slide in and out of so I can have a different shape on each end. I have a post here on it in the tips section.
 
Doug - Thanks for reminding me of the file test. I had completely forgotten about that.
The file says that all of my blanks are hardened. I took them to the grinder and the result when applied to spinning wood was only a burnishing of the surface. I went back to the drawing board and discovered the the included angle that I actually ground at the grinder was 90 degrees!

BTW - BS OSU, class of '58 (chemistry)
OU - pHd bridge, but flunked out of MS math program '64 (after Navy)
 
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