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Elm???

E

Ed_McDonnell

Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
643
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Location
Central Florida
I got some American Elm two days ago from an arboreteum. The tree was cut down four days ago. Dark reddish brown streaked heartwood and light, slightly yellowish colored sapwood. Looks really nice, but smells really really bad.

I'm donating the wood to my turning club, but I don't know much about tunring it. Down here in South Florida this is a rare exotic wood.

Any thoughts, tips or experiences with turning / finishing elm?

Ed
 
It is a wonderful wood and lasts longer in the log than most woods I've used. I believe that is the preferred wood that Lyle Jamieson uses for his nudes. I love it for ornaments, especially if it's a small limb so I can leave the heartwood and sap wood on.
 
The smell does go away as it drys, or has turned into a pleasant smell for me. Some thing like an enzyme in the wood does that, and when dry is nice. Has an interlocking grain which makes it difficult to split. Was a favorite of the Windsor chair makers for the seat. It really soaks up the finish.
robo hippy
 
The American Elm in my neck of the woods is pale colored, and almost gone except for immature trees. The reddish Elm is called, what else but, Red Elm and is more available in large trees as it is less susceptable to Dutch Elm disease.

We are currently burning Red Elm in our Round Oak potbelly stove, so I have choice pieces for bowl turning and whatnot. Nice to turn green but it gets rather hard after drying.

I've turned a half-dozen eating bowls from it this winter, and they get everyday use in a household of seven adults. Bare wood, no finish, except for salad oil once in a while and they get the same manual dishwashing treatment as everything else.

What really amazes me is the lack of warping--I turned each one from start to finish in one session, and after a hot water wash to raise the grain for final sanding, they went right to the kitchen. I'm actually baffled by how round they are, as American Elm has one of the highest ratios of tangential to radial shrinkage of all american woods. My reference book doesn't include Red Elm properties so it may be quite different from American Elm.

Addendum: at treedoctor's request, the book I referred to is "Wood for Wood-Carvers and Craftsmen" by Robert L. Butler - ISBN 0-498-01376-6 1974 by A. S. Barnes and Co., Inc.
 
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It's the lovely interlocked grain that keeps things relatively round. The pull isn't in just one direction, but in all, sort of like a burl or severe curl.

I think it makes gorgeous work, but it spalts fast here. The interlocked grain makes interesting ash, but poor coals in my furnace.
 
I don't turn American Elm, but I do have some red elm to make bowls out of. Mine was slabbed 20 years into nominal 2" planks. Now I'm processing into 1 by stuff or less. Started on the process of making the boards into segmented turning, some of it will get dyed like Don Derry does, don't how it will turn off we will see. The red elm has been in the garage all the time, should be more than dry enough by now. Awaiting for a moisture checker to come in so I can check the elm and some other wood I have slabbed down with my bandsaw. I'm getting a smooth surface from my planer and drum sander don't foresee any problems with it.
 
Ken Grunke said:
What really amazes me is the lack of warping....
Click to expand...
I have only turned one bowl out of elm -- I turned it green and went all the way to final thickness in one session (only because that is the way that I turn mesquite which essentially has no warping problem). It warped all over the place, but didn't crack. It also gave my shop quite a strong barnyard aroma. After thoroughly drying, it became rock hard -- I would hate to try turning it if it were completely dry.
 
I believe this piece of 14" Elm crotch was kiln dried.......anyway, it came from a local lumber yard and was planed 1 3/4" thick....... less than 10% moisture content. It was finished in a single lathe session a couple years ago.

I don't recall any peculiarities about this piece of Elm worth noting......turn it as per your usual!

otis of cologne
 

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Thanks to everyone who replied for all the great info.

Odie, is that piece in your picture heartwood or sapwood? The heartwood on the elm I have is much much darker. It doesn't look anything like your picture. They guys at the arboreteum told me it was elm so I have to believe that they know what they were talking about. Sure looks different though.

Anyone else have some pictures of their elm turnings that they could post?

Thanks

Ed
 
I just went out and took a picture of the elm in the back of my truck. I sealed it with anchorseal today and it hasn't completely dried (it was nice and warm today at 84, but a little humid). The anchorseal turned the sapwood reddish, but it was a very pale yellow before sealing. The heartwood looks the same as before it was sealed. Very dark.

I don't think this stuff would look anything like Odie's piece when turned. Does it look like elm to you guys?

Ed
 

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Ed_McDonnell said:
Thanks to everyone who replied for all the great info.

Odie, is that piece in your picture heartwood or sapwood? The heartwood on the elm I have is much much darker. It doesn't look anything like your picture. They guys at the arboreteum told me it was elm so I have to believe that they know what they were talking about. Sure looks different though.

Anyone else have some pictures of their elm turnings that they could post?

Thanks

Ed
Click to expand...

Ed......

It's been my experience that, from tree to tree, region to region, wood of the same species can take on a completely different look. That piece is all heartwood, with the darker area forming the beginnings of a crotch. That's what I think, anyway......It's pretty easy to tell the difference between heartwood and sapwood if you have examples of both in a single piece of wood. Since that one didn't have any variation, other than where the crotch begins, I'd say it's all heartwood. If it were sapwood, I'd think it would have had to be an enormous tree to have something 14" in diameter, and all sapwood......wouldn't you think?

Since I purchased that piece of Elm at a local lumber yard, I couldn't begin to guess exactly where it came from.

BTW: I just finished a piece of Cherry that was sold to me as Maple. I got it from someone that should know better, but I'm sure all of us have made mistakes in species identification from time to time.....sometimes that's a pretty easy thing to do if unsure of the source.......!

otis of cologne
 
Looks like red elm to me. If you want some real exercise, try splitting some. It has, as MM pointed out, interlocking grain-- with emphasis on the "locking."
 
From my research I learned that the range for American Elm is down into Central Florida. The range for Red Elm (aka slippery elm) barely extends into the most northern part of the panhandle of Florida and it is supposeldy uncommon south of Kentucky.

The tree was growning in Palm Beach County Florida (South Florida). That would make it really exceptional if it was Red Elm. Sure looks red to me though.

The tree was planted long before any of the current workers started at the arboreteum. They were certain it was elm, but maybe they just assumed it was American Elm because it's so far south of the Red Elm range. I asked them to pull their records on the tree and check. Maybe I'll get an answer.

Odie - The bottom most portion of the trunk was huge. It actually looked a little like a cypress tree with all the buttresses. I could have gotten a 14" bowl all sapwood out of that easy.

Ed
 
club

I'm donating the wood to my turning club
Click to expand...

that was a great haul and i am envious of your turning club members :D
 
Ed_McDonnell said:
Odie - The bottom most portion of the trunk was huge. It actually looked a little like a cypress tree with all the buttresses. I could have gotten a 14" bowl all sapwood out of that easy.

Ed
Click to expand...

Ed......

OK, well in that case, I could be mistaken.

otis of cologne
 
grey hackle said:
Looks like red elm to me. If you want some real exercise, try splitting some. It has, as MM pointed out, interlocking grain-- with emphasis on the "locking."
Click to expand...
It can be frustrating, for sure, as I experienced yesterday for the umteenth time. Temps near zero definitely made for easier splitting but a wedge was necessary at least to halve the bigger chunks.
 
I've just now read this thread. For the last 4 days I've been sawing, blanking, sealing, rough-turning, Elm. (It all goes into the soup.) It looks just like the Elm in the photo of sealed wood. I've turned quite a bit of Elm the last few years, after the tornado hit our town. It stinks, when turning, but boy does it make some beautiful bowls!! (I've only turned one piece of Red Elm, and it has the reddish color... it was from Georgia.) In this part of the country, American Elm and Native Elm both have the darker heartwood. Native Elm is the one that gets hit with Dutch Elm disease... American Elm doesn't get the disease here... don't know why. It may have something to do with the soil.
 
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