End Grain Turning

[Tom D]

I'm new at turning bowls and decorative turnings so when at my local libary I found a DVD on bowl turning. I'm afraid it wasn't very informative it was very old. But it had a man turn a large branch about 4 or 5" in dia. from the end grain into a small bowl or cup. Since he hollowed out the center pith except at the bottom isn't this a sure crack?

 

[Steve Worcester]

It really depends upon the wood, and how wet it is.

If I am turning end grain, I usually make sure all of the heart is out and any assoicated radial cracks. Doesn't mean I always do it that way.
John Jordan used to show a technique that you drilled out that portion on the bottom and plugged it later.

 

[Jeff Jilg]

I agree with Steve. I've had good luck with leaving the pith in cedar elm, ash, hackberry, and chinaberry. The oak species seems to have a conspiracy against me - many of my roughouts crack or warp even without the pith. For the cedar elm end grain pieces they have had small cracks that didn't travel. Generally for end grain pieces if you take them pretty thin they have less tendency to have the cracks travel.

There are a lot of books out there on turning bowls. I have found Raffan's bowl book to be useful. You may want to look at design books as well. I read through Raffan's turned bowl design and it really made me think about the the whole process and final product. :cool2:

 

[DWFII]

But aren't most deep bowls and vases (hollow forms) turned "cross-grain?" Generally speaking, I mean? And sure, I understand that goblets and chalices,etc., need to be turned end grain to preserve the strength in the stem. But short of that, I'm not sure why anyone would want to turn even a box end grain.

I'm not asking these questions frivolously, I honestly don't know what the definitive answer is or if there's even a rule of thumb.

 

[Jeff Jilg]

I agree that a lot of items are turned cross grain - certainly the majority of bowls probably are cross grain. An end grain box or vase is just a different approach. The end grain boxes which I've done utilized nearly the entire branch segment. To me they are kinda fun and and the final piece looks a lot different.

 

[Jerry Hall]

Green Endgrain Turning

I have been turning only a couple months, but found the book Turning Green Wood by Michael O'Donnell excellent. There are several detailed, well photographed excercises on end grain turning. The key from the perspective of this book is to finish the bowl green, skip the partially turned blank stage, and turn it thin. I finished a natural edge bowl from a 4" cherry limb to about 3/32" (just translucent) with a couple piths and no cracks after drying in a very warm room. It's a good looking little bowl, dried pretty round compared to side grain bowls, held on to the bark. I like this green end grain turning because it is great practice and there is sure lot's of limb stock around, and preparing the bowl blank stock is a breeze compared to side grain bowl stock. I can push my limits without using up more valued larger side grain blanks. The tool technique and sequence of work is quite different tho. Get the book.

 

[Wally Dickerman]

But aren't most deep bowls and vases (hollow forms) turned "cross-grain?" Generally speaking, I mean? And sure, I understand that goblets and chalices,etc., need to be turned end grain to preserve the strength in the stem. But short of that, I'm not sure why anyone would want to turn even a box end grain.

I'm not asking these questions frivolously, I honestly don't know what the definitive answer is or if there's even a rule of thumb.

Actually, nearly all deep hollow forms are turned end grain. Why not turn end grain? Some of the methods used in end grain turning differ from cross grain turning, but in some ways are easier to do. A lidded box, to be sucessfull must be turned end grain because of warping. Wood is continually moving, meaning distorting. With end grain turnings, the movement is just about equal in all directions, while with cross grain it isn't. This, of course would result in lids that don't fit after they're turned.

Wally

 

[DWFII]

Wally,

That's interesting. And I really appreciate the advice in this regard as I've asked that question several times on other forums and never gotten a clear answer. I've only done one bowl...waiting to buy a bigger lathe...but I so admire the deep vases with the small openings that I am trying to research it all I can.

So if I want to do a deep hollow vase...maybe 6 inches deep and 8" in diameter at the widest and with an opening of say 2" , I want to use end grain? Do you take the piece from a much larger section of wood so as to avoid the pith? Some of the grain patterns I see on deep bowls and vases seem like they'd have to be cross-grain...?

 

[Wally Dickerman]

Hollow forms can be turned cross grain as well as end grain. If you have a 6 inch deep x 8 inch wide blank in either cross grain or end grain, either will work equally well. If you wanted to turn a hollow vessel 12 inches or more, deep, you would almost have to use end grain. Most of the deep hollow vessels that I turn are from large trees, so the pith isn't present. If you're using a blank from a small tree, the pith could cause cracking problems. John Jordan frequently drills out the pith in the bottom of a vessel and replaces it with a plug. But of course he's coloring many of his pieces so that the plug isn't noticeable.

Wally

 

[dfriedel]

Besides the structural benefits, elongated hollow forms turned end grain produce long lines and patterns on the sides which further enhance the shape, as opposed to concentric circles around the girth.