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Experience with P&N gouges

J

jtdums

Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
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Location
Mooresville, NC
I am in need of several bowl gouges for high school woodturning classes.

I had a very negative experience with the cheapest available (flutes were so poorly ground that the gouges really didn't grind to an acceptable edge) and want to upgrade without breaking the bank.

I don't mind making the handles, and P&N offer inexpensive gouges in the sizes that I'm looking for at a moderate cost. I have no experience with the brand personally, so I would love feedback prior to committing.

Further, would there be an advantage to "reaching" to a high quality gouge like the Crown PM series that might hold an edge longer and consequently result in less sharpening and ultimately save money in the long run? Anyone done any "head to head" testing of their claims?

Thanks for the advise.
-Jim D.
Community School of Davidson
 
I have not used either of those however the price on the Crown gouges is very high. Have you looked at D-Way gouges? Everyone that uses them loves them and Dave is very involved in the AAW and I know lots of people can vouch for the quality of his tools. Price seems about in the middle of the two lines you are looking at.

I have his skew and 3/8 spindle gouge so far and love them. Give him a call or email him and ask him what he thinks. I know Dave to always give an honest answer. dwaytools@hctc.com

http://www.d-waytools.com/tools-gouges.html
 
Reputation seems good on P&N, but were the ones you found wanting Benjamin's Best? They are certainly favorably priced, and may go lower for academic use. http://woodturning.pennstateind.com/search/index?query=benjamin+best+woodturning+tools

I don't find the fancy alloy or process tools' edges last enough to warrant the difference in price, but I'm a dinosaur who still hones and uses his carbon set, though some are now 1/3 the length they used to be. We had a mixed bag of Buck Bros, Greenlee and Sorby at our HS - don't let the kids grind them - that served pretty well. Check with your local AAW chapter for support and possibly some tools. I know I've a few I got because others thought highly of them which I never use. Might be the same there.
 
It was the Benjamin's Best that I found very wanting. In addition to the poor flutes, one of them had a defective handle that broke with a solid catch in the first week. Right along the grain that exited just above the ferrule.

I like the D-way gouges, but they are almost at the price of the high end crown-pm gouges I was wondering about. Does the hardness of either necessarily equate to less frequent sharpening and long term cost savings?
I don't have the personal experience with these "extra" hard metals.

I do have the kids sharpen using a wolverine jig, because I consider it an essential skill and I find that the jig prohibits unnecessary grinding away of tool steel for the most part.

I will shoot Doug an email and request his take on the situation. Thanks also for this recommendation.
 
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A couple years ago I bought a P&N SRG. It was defective. The vendor replaced it. I've been very happy with the replacement.

Back when I bought, P&N had just changed owners. Not sure if the defective SRG was indicative of where things were heading with the new owners or just an unfortunate slip in Q&A.

Here's a link to the lenghty discussion:

http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=5461

My bottom line. If you are lucky enough to get a P&N gouge made by a skilled worker on a good day you might be happy. Otherwise, maybe not so much happiness.

If price really is a major issue, you might prowl some of the online resale sites. One fellow in my club frequently finds good tools at great prices that he resells to club members (at slightly less great prices).

Students should be able to learn just as effectively on a used gouge as on a new one.

Ed
 
I don't think you need premium gouges for classes. They don't sharpen well enough to learn the differences in the life of the edge. They are nice tools however but students tend to overgrind and waste away the metal. For that reason I would buy the less expensive gouges like the P@N. I have only used one P@N gouge and it's pretty good. The Packard house brand is a good gouge also.
http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Mer...e=packard&Product_Code=100121S&Category_Code=
 
I have about ten p&n tools,
2 skews, a roughing gouge, and several bowl and spindle gouges. I've had some people tell me they are just as good as the other high end brands, but I wasn't there to do the comparison so i don't know how reliable that claim is. I do know I like my tools, if you get them from Lee Valley you know you wont have a problem exchanging them if there is an issue.

If money is tough for your turning program, try an eog grant here with the AAW. I did last year for one of the facilities I teach at and we managed to bring our turning program a long way ahead with the money recieved. I'm appreciative and so are my students.
 
Sounds like you had some poor milling in the flutes? Not a game-changer if you touch them up with a final hone with a cone inside the flute. Advice still the same - see if you can use 'em before you make your decision.

Only the kids in the advanced classes were allowed to touch sharpening devices or adjust the machines back when. I think it an excellent policy. Of course I had a sixth-grade group too....
 
I had and used a P&N bowl gouge for a number of years. Had good luck with it, liked it a lot. Then I bought a Thompson bowl gouge - I like it more - but it costs more too.

I think as a teacher - getting tools for the woodshop class - I would contact the nearest woodturning club and 1) see if they had any tools around that the members were not using 2) see if they wanted to purchase a few good gouges for you.

Hugh
 
P&n

I occasionally teach at a woodturning facility here in Maine.....When we set the shop up about 10 or so years ago,we bought 10 sets of the P&N gouges....we still have them and they are doing well.One of the things I like best about them for a school setting is that they are very long......and as everyone seems to like to grind them to their own liking,the length has been a bonus.....my guess is that they are about two inches longer than most other brands.....They hold an edge as well as most and I would recommend them to any one for school use.....just my personal opinion.....
 
Does anyone have the 7/8" P&N supa bowl gouge. If so has it performed well and does it fit in the varigrind wolverine jig. I have measured my varigrind and it looks as though it would be very close to fitting. Thanks in advance for your help.

Dale
 
Thank you everyone for all the good advise. In summary, those who have used the P&N tools have good things to say about them and I will feel more confident in going this direction if that is where we fall with the decision about grade of tool steel.

I will follow up on this thread with anything else that I learn.
 
dbonertz said:
Does anyone have the 7/8" P&N supa bowl gouge. If so has it performed well and does it fit in the varigrind wolverine jig. I have measured my varigrind and it looks as though it would be very close to fitting. Thanks in advance for your help.

Dale
Click to expand...

I have the 7/8" - it does not fit in the varigrind - I built a wooden-block with dowel leg holder - not adjustable but gets job done.

I use it for first cuts when roughing - it can take a large cut and should be used with finesse - nice open flute that really allows curls to clear easily - stays sharp - should not be the first bowl gouge you buy, but it has it's place.
 
My conclusions

I had a nice conversation with Dave at D-way tools today and he confirmed a lot of what I was thinking about bowl gouges and our classroom.

Quality tool steel and machining isn't cheap. As personal experience would suggest, the cut quality of any tool is impacted by a lot of factors (angle of cut, grind, experience level), but all things being equal, a better quality of tool is an advantage and certainly will help my students along the path to mastering this elusive art.

Further, since we sharpen exclusively with a jig (wolverine) our next purchase of gouges will last for a good long time and I feel comfortable waiting until our budget will allow us to "spend up" to get a quality product in their hands.

I'm off to grind some flats on the remaining bar stock to enable us to get a few more sharpenings and hopefully stay afloat until the budget situation improves.
 
I teach high school shop as well and have found that Packard's line of tools or great for the price. I still prefer Doug's bowl gouges, but for most other lathe tools Packard tools should serve you well.
Jack
 
flyrod444 said:
I teach high school shop as well and have found that Packard's line of tools or great for the price. I still prefer Doug's bowl gouges, but for most other lathe tools Packard tools should serve you well.
Jack
Click to expand...

Thanks Jack. I'll check those out as well.
I also sent you a PM regarding your curriculum development work.
-Jim
 
The P&N range is the premium Australian brand. I confess to owning very few of them :o even though I live in Australia. I prefer the Hamlet 2060 range, Doug Thomsons range and so on
But as stated you may not need at this stage a premium brand until your more acquainted with the sharpening process.

If P&N is in your price range then go for it. Just get the basics dont go for the whole set and build on that slowly as you require.
 
If your Bs best gouges were not ground good use a dremel with a round grinder and clean the flute up. Perhaps I was just lucky and got good steel. If a handle broke make a new one. I lowered the profile on a Bs best spindle gouge and took a dremel to clean it up. I gave my daughter my M4 steel spindle gouge to use. I think Bs best for students is a cheap way to get M2 steel. If you get a good batch.
No complaint with P and N tools. I use the roughing, a 1/2 inch gouge and two sizes of the detail gouges.
I also have very high end tools. They hold an edge only a bit more in the nasty woods I use.
I have found that differences in flute design do mean a bit of a learning curve between some brands.
 
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