finials/handles

[ahoiberg]

i've got a general question about finials or handles on lidded boxes or any turning for that matter.

what is the best method for turning these pieces? collet chuck? or just between centers and part? and is it better/easier to turn them separately or could one glue a block of contrasting wood onto the lid of the box and turn the finial with it?

secondly, if you were to turn it separately, should a hole be drilled prior (or after?) to turning the lid to accept the finial/handle or can the recess be turned it with reasonable accuracy?

thanks for the replies in advance!

 

[MichaelMouse]

Yes.

Just remember as you choose your method, that a tenon too large is worse than a tenon too small. Make sure you have a glue-swell fit before you give up your centers.

 

[Joe Greiner]

I like 'em really pointy, so I use a chuck of some sort at one stage or another.

A tenon and socket gives a stronger connection. Just gluing the contrasting wood would usually provide end grain to end grain contact - very weak.

I've done the separate turning both ways. Drilling the socket first seems easier (e.g. Forstner bit). But turning the tenon first is somewhat better, because you can bore the socket to fit the tenon directly (i.e. frequent test fit), instead of relying on instruments.

Joe

 

[Ruth Niles]

In answer to all your questions ......... yes.

The best method might be different for whatever piece of wood you intend to use for the finial. If I'm using an odd shaped, smaller piece, I'll put it in the #2 jaws (standard size) of the Talon chuck. If the piece of wood is too thin for the jaws, I'll turn it between centers. If it's not long enough for between centers nor will fit in the chuck jaws, I might change jaws to collet or just use the jacobs chuck in the headstock.

The answer to your second question is yes. I've done finials for boxes each and every way. I do prefer turning the recess in the lid, I've got the piece on the lathe, it's running true, the recess has to be centered. Plus I'm a "lazy" turner, I don't like to do extra steps if they are not guaranteed to improve the results. Try them and you decide which is easier and faster for you. I've watched turners do bottle stoppers in 10 minutes, when I tried to do it their way, it took me 45 minutes.

Hope this answered your questions just a little at least.

Ruth

 

[Rick H]

Finals

I turn them with a chuck whenever I have small pieces of wood to use up. Then I keep them sorted in drawers by size of tenon.
Now I can pick the style I want for the box and drill or use a small scraper to make the hole. If I get the hole oversized I just look for a larger tenion final in the drawers.

 

[dbonertz]

Before you go buying new chucks or tools may I suggest thet you visit www.cindydrozda.com. Cindy is a world class delicate finial turner and has a video out to teach you tool control, how to grind your detail/spindle gouge (to get into tight places) and how to chuck your small finials. It is a great video for learning. I am not sure how much they cost since I purchased mine at an auction at the Rocky Mountain Woodturners Symposium (I paid more for it than it really costs but it was for a good cause). Happy turning and good luck.

 

[blackhorse]

Michael,

How would you define a proper "glue-swell fit"?

Joe

 

[Ken Grunke]

I prefer to turn finials in a chuck with the top end facing out, but then sizing the tenon is more difficult as you can't check the fit in the hole it's going in to. You have to accurately measure the tenon with calipers, or a go-nogo gage. The gage is a good idea if you turn a lot of finials with the same size tenon.
I use the same 3/8" drill for all finial tenons and use a vernier caliper to size the tenon on the chuck side before parting it off. I don't turn many finials but if I did, I'd probably use a 3/8" collet to grip a preturned tenon in a rough blank, to turn the finial.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

good thread

this thread really helps, never even thought about

use the jacobs chuck in the headstock.

 

[MichaelMouse]

Michael,

How would you define a proper "glue-swell fit"?

Smooth insert, maybe even a bit loose, in which case you can squeeze the tenon with a set of slip-joint pliers to pop up some sections. Water-based glues will expand the fibers on both sides of the joint.

Too tight is a temptation to drive in and split the whole shebang.

Almost forgot, those plug cutter things work pretty nice if you want to size a tenon on a chucked piece.

 

[Charlie Knighton]

tenon

How would you define a proper "glue-swell fit

if you consider a tenon the same as a wooden dowel, you would make some slits in the dowel or tenon so that the "glue-swell" would not split the wood, i would think a 3/8 tenon should have a least 4 slits

i have used dowels on some flat work and have decided i hate a 90 degree angle, i do not have enough carpenter in me

this is precut 1/4 x 1 1/4 dowel notice the slits, you can also make your own with midge knife

 

[MichaelMouse]

That's what you're doing with your slip-joint pliers, fluting the tenon. Of course the real purpose is to allow air and glue to move out of the way as you insert. Secondary benefit if you squeeze versus mill the flutes, is that you make some larger-diameter points of contact which hold the tenon in place until the glue sets.